WWTBAM Bored

Not going to R.I.P. him because he selfishly put our entire country and those on the planes with him at risk.

Ebola patient Thomas Duncan dies in Dallas hospital

DALLAS, Texas - Dallas hospital says the first Ebola patient diagnosed in the US has died.

"It is with profound sadness and heartfelt disappointment that we must inform you of the death of Thomas Eric Duncan this morning at 7:51 am. Mr. Duncan succumbed to an insidious disease, Ebola. He fought courageously in this battle. Our professionals, the doctors and nurses in the unit, as well as the entire Texas Health Presbyterian Hospital Dallas community, are also grieving his passing. We have offered the family our support and condolences at this difficult time, hospital officials said."

AP: Duncan passed an airport health screening in Liberia, where his temperature registered as normal and he showed no signs of Ebola symptoms. But a few days after he arrived, he began to have a fever, headache and abdominal pain.

I don't see selfishness here. What am I missing?

There are lots of survivors of Ebola in various parts of Africa who could donate blood with the immune factors needed to fight the disease. This is called "passive immunity", as you get the immunity from donated factors, not by actively producing the factors themselves. It also can be dangerous, the donor may be donating other factors the victim can't handle.


In America, there are only the previous people brought here for treatment who have survived. One of them, Dr. Kent Brantly, says via the news services that they were contacted, & offered to donate blood for Mr. Duncan, but were never called back; presumably their blood type didn't match. I would have hoped that the factors needed to treat Ebola could have been isolated, but apparently medical science is not at that stage yet; they were treating this like any other blood donation, where the types have to match. Mr. Brantly did donate blood to treat Ashoka Mukpo & Dr. Rick Sacra, both being treated in the US. Dr. Sacra has since recovered, says the article I found:

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/ebola- ... po-n220811


If the medical systems in Africa were up to it Mr. Duncan would have been better off staying there for a donor. But they're not up to it. They're not treating people via blood donations at all, from what I can find. Although Wikischmoozia says "During a 1995 Ebola virus outbreak in the Democratic Republic of Congo, whole blood from recovering patients, and containing anti-Ebola antibodies, was used to treat eight patients, as no effective means of prevention currently exists, though a treatment was discovered recently in the 2013 Ebola epidemic in Africa. Only one of the eight infected patients died, compared to a typical 80% Ebola mortality, which suggested that antibody treatment may contribute to survival."

And apparently there's no more of the drug, ZMapp, that was used on the other people brought back to the US left. Period. Chilling. Also deadly, for Mr. Duncan.

According to http://guardianlv.com/2014/08/ebola-zma ... tial-cure/, passive immunity is also used to describe what ZMapp confers. Apparently passive immunity is a very inclusive term.

Ritterskoop wrote:AP: Duncan passed an airport health screening in Liberia, where his temperature registered as normal and he showed no signs of Ebola symptoms. But a few days after he arrived, he began to have a fever, headache and abdominal pain.

I don't see selfishness here. What am I missing?

It may have to do with his supposed lie or omission of facts on exiting Liberia surrounding his aid to his neighbor/relative/whoever it was that was in the throes of dying from ebola and he toted the woman to and fro, was in the car with her, touched her, she died, etc.

I also question the originial Dallas hospital workers' negligence.

I'm Jewish. Hey, I've said that before here! However, the New Testament story of the Good Samaritan appeals very strongly to me. In the parable, the victim of whatever was passed by by people who didn't want have to undergo purification rituals after having touched a sick person. But the Samaritan helped the victim. Of course, the Samaritan didn't have to then undergo tedious purification rituals, because their religion didn't have any. (None of those prescribed in Leviticus or wherever would help with Ebola, by the way.)


It really is possible to help a victim, even if you have to wear a space-suit to avoid contamination to do it. I wish for his sake Mr. Duncan had had one.

BackInTex wrote:Not going to R.I.P. him because he selfishly put our entire country and those on the planes with him at risk.

Ebola patient Thomas Duncan dies in Dallas hospital

DALLAS, Texas - Dallas hospital says the first Ebola patient diagnosed in the US has died.

"It is with profound sadness and heartfelt disappointment that we must inform you of the death of Thomas Eric Duncan this morning at 7:51 am. Mr. Duncan succumbed to an insidious disease, Ebola. He fought courageously in this battle. Our professionals, the doctors and nurses in the unit, as well as the entire Texas Health Presbyterian Hospital Dallas community, are also grieving his passing. We have offered the family our support and condolences at this difficult time, hospital officials said."

I've been thinking about this. While I don't think the Good Samaritan thing is germane here, I mean, everyone should try to help others, etc., the willful transportation of a deadly disease across borders, or to other humans (purposely infecting someone with some other disease, yada yada), is what should be concerning.

But, should we not be just as judgmental about those healthworkers, journalists, clergy, from HERE, who have volunteered their aid, gotten sick and returned, or aren't sick now but may be (right now no one has been infected due to them but we don't really know)? Keep in mind the first doctor taken ill, Brantley or whatever, apparently did not have a full protection suit on, due to the heat. A minor slipup at the time, but is it "better" than how anyone else contracts the disease, or is it "worse" since he should have known better?

I don't know what precautions are being taken by journalists & clergy in the Ebola regions of Africa, but all the health workers from foreign aid groups knew & know exactly what they are facing & took measures to prevent them catching Ebola, & still a few have somehow gotten sick.

I really think the headline ought to read Ebola 1, USA 4.

Four Americans were brought back to the US and survived. That element of the system worked.
What didn't work was relying on self-reporting at departing airports in West Africa. Nor will monitoring travelers' temperatures at US gateway airports. That will be a huge waste of resources, all done for show.

bazodee wrote:I really think the headline ought to read Ebola 1, USA 4.

Four Americans were brought back to the US and survived. That element of the system worked.
What didn't work was relying on self-reporting at departing airports in West Africa. Nor will monitoring travelers' temperatures at US gateway airports. That will be a huge waste of resources, all done for show.

I rolled my eyes at that, too. My kids used to be rampant strep throat sufferers, for years, eventually requiring tonsillectomies and one adenoidectomy. They rarely ran fevers and I knew they were ill if they puked or I could see the white dots in their throats. I don't run a fever much when ill either.

Beebs52 wrote:

Ritterskoop wrote:AP: Duncan passed an airport health screening in Liberia, where his temperature registered as normal and he showed no signs of Ebola symptoms. But a few days after he arrived, he began to have a fever, headache and abdominal pain.

I don't see selfishness here. What am I missing?

It may have to do with his supposed lie or omission of facts on exiting Liberia surrounding his aid to his neighbor/relative/whoever it was that was in the throes of dying from ebola and he toted the woman to and fro, was in the car with her, touched her, she died, etc.

I also question the originial Dallas hospital workers' negligence.

Exactly. He lied to get out of the country and into ours. Those questions at the airport and his likely denial to leave ARE the things that need to be done to control the epicemic. However, if people lie, it won't work. He lied.

BackInTex wrote:

Beebs52 wrote:

Ritterskoop wrote:AP: Duncan passed an airport health screening in Liberia, where his temperature registered as normal and he showed no signs of Ebola symptoms. But a few days after he arrived, he began to have a fever, headache and abdominal pain.

I don't see selfishness here. What am I missing?

It may have to do with his supposed lie or omission of facts on exiting Liberia surrounding his aid to his neighbor/relative/whoever it was that was in the throes of dying from ebola and he toted the woman to and fro, was in the car with her, touched her, she died, etc.

I also question the originial Dallas hospital workers' negligence.

Exactly. He lied to get out of the country and into ours. Those questions at the airport and his likely denial to leave ARE the things that need to be done to control the epicemic. However, if people lie, it won't work. He lied.

I know. I know. I just question is the lie the be all and end all of negligence or criminality in this issue? I rather doubt he's the only lie or sneaker under the radar and that this whole thing is way bigger than blame assessment now. Origin assessment and treatment, yes. But, what do we do about it that is sensible and efficacious. Now. Rather than spend resources suing a dead man.

Beebs52 wrote:

BackInTex wrote:

Beebs52 wrote:
It may have to do with his supposed lie or omission of facts on exiting Liberia surrounding his aid to his neighbor/relative/whoever it was that was in the throes of dying from ebola and he toted the woman to and fro, was in the car with her, touched her, she died, etc.

I also question the originial Dallas hospital workers' negligence.

Exactly. He lied to get out of the country and into ours. Those questions at the airport and his likely denial to leave ARE the things that need to be done to control the epicemic. However, if people lie, it won't work. He lied.

I know. I know. I just question is the lie the be all and end all of negligence or criminality in this issue? I rather doubt he's the only lie or sneaker under the radar and that this whole thing is way bigger than blame assessment now. Origin assessment and treatment, yes. But, what do we do about it that is sensible and efficacious. Now. Rather than spend resources suing a dead man.

I'm not suing a dead man. I'm just not giving him a R.I.P.

What we do do quarantine the entire countries where this thing is at. If someone wants to leave, they go to a holding place for whatever amount of time it takes to incubate. If after that time they are clean, they can leave. Seems cruel but its all that will work. Otherwise WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE!

So people are supposed to stay where they are and die because there are no treatments available there?

Ritterskoop wrote:So people are supposed to stay where they are and die because there are no treatments available there?

In the absence of foolproof protocols for transporting or caring for those who are ill in these countries, um, yeah. Do you want them just waltzing on regular planes, trains and automobiles or cruise ships, or borders, tripping the light fantastic in the grocery store next to you? Not trying to be flippant, but it really is that serious. We don't have the capabilities or capacity to be the world's hospital on this right now. It gets close to home when certain someone I am related to will be working on the virus in whatever capacity because of this.

I did not know he had lied, so that does change things for me.

I guess I thought it was similar to the missionaries who got sick and came home for treatment, and everyone seemed to be very supportive of them.

Beebs52 wrote:

Ritterskoop wrote:So people are supposed to stay where they are and die because there are no treatments available there?

In the absence of foolproof protocols for transporting or caring for those who are ill in these countries, um, yeah. Do you want them just waltzing on regular planes, trains and automobiles or cruise ships, or borders, tripping the light fantastic in the grocery store next to you? Not trying to be flippant, but it really is that serious. We don't have the capabilities or capacity to be the world's hospital on this right now. It gets close to home when certain someone I am related to will be working on the virus in whatever capacity because of this.

Seems obvious to me.

BackInTex wrote:

Beebs52 wrote:

BackInTex wrote:
Exactly. He lied to get out of the country and into ours. Those questions at the airport and his likely denial to leave ARE the things that need to be done to control the epicemic. However, if people lie, it won't work. He lied.

I know. I know. I just question is the lie the be all and end all of negligence or criminality in this issue? I rather doubt he's the only lie or sneaker under the radar and that this whole thing is way bigger than blame assessment now. Origin assessment and treatment, yes. But, what do we do about it that is sensible and efficacious. Now. Rather than spend resources suing a dead man.

I'm not suing a dead man. I'm just not giving him a R.I.P.

What we do do quarantine the entire countries where this thing is at. If someone wants to leave, they go to a holding place for whatever amount of time it takes to incubate. If after that time they are clean, they can leave. Seems cruel but its all that will work. Otherwise WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE!

Ebola isn't the only deadly disease out there, and it's far from the most contagious. The flu is much more common, much more contagious, and although it's mortality rate is lower than that for Ebola, it's still pretty damn high.

There's a very real economic cost to what you're proposing. In light of the relatively low risk (has anyone contracted the disease from Duncan?), I really don't think it's worth it. --Bob

Bob78164 wrote:There's a very real economic cost to what you're proposing. In light of the relatively low risk (has anyone contracted the disease from Duncan?), I really don't think it's worth it. --Bob

I wasn't aware Duncan was the only person to have Ebola in or from Liberia. I guess we dodged a bullet. Whew!

Hawaii

Small Pox

Missionaries and Sailors from America.

a1mamacat wrote:Hawaii

Small Pox

Missionaries and Sailors from America.

You really think everything that happens past that sort of thing makes us to blame for everything similar? As if we haven't or do a lot to help? I hope this isn't going to devolve into reparations. I'm descended from Vikings. Blame me for rape and pillage.

I just realized you must have meant some sort of ironic revenge?

Beebs52 wrote:

a1mamacat wrote:Hawaii

Small Pox

Missionaries and Sailors from America.

You really think everything that happens past that sort of thing makes us to blame for everything similar? As if we haven't or do a lot to help? I hope this isn't going to devolve into reparations. I'm descended from Vikings. Blame me for rape and pillage.

No, but the attitude of we can do it to others, but how dare someone do it to us, gets a little tired.

and I KNEW you were to blame for pillaging...I doubt the rapine tho

a1mamacat wrote:

Beebs52 wrote:

a1mamacat wrote:Hawaii

Small Pox

Missionaries and Sailors from America.

You really think everything that happens past that sort of thing makes us to blame for everything similar? As if we haven't or do a lot to help? I hope this isn't going to devolve into reparations. I'm descended from Vikings. Blame me for rape and pillage.

No, but the attitude of we can do it to others, but how dare someone do it to us, gets a little tired.

and I KNEW you were to blame for pillaging...I doubt the rapine tho

I edited my previous post. However, who in the HELL has said how dare they do it to us? This is a global thing. Jesus jumping jehosaphat. Read what I posted. Canada may be affected at some point, too. I disagree with the blame thing since we need to just figure out how to fix it. We ARE pretty much mostly trying.

And the rapine thing, nah not so much. Wreck my mani pedi

a1mamacat wrote: No, but the attitude of we can do it to others, but how dare someone do it to us, gets a little tired.

If I were in Texas I'd be far more worried about West Nile Virus:

http://www.dshs.state.tx.us/news/updates.shtm

Actually, I think I did get it when I was working there two years ago.