A Passover question

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#1 Post by **Bob78164** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 2:02 pm

Does anyone know why Passover and Easter are nearly a month apart this year? --Bob

wintergreen48 · #2 Post by **wintergreen48** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 2:36 pm

I THINK it has to do with slightly different ways of calculating dates, where the difference in the calculation is usually very small, but this year it just worked out to be very large.

Passover starts on the 14th day of the Hebrew month Nisan, and that day is supposed to be the first full moon after the vernal equinox (with Nisan starting on the 'new moon' that immediately precedes the vernal equinox). The formal rule for setting Easter is that it is the first Sunday following the first full month following the vernal equinox, so that, theoretically, it would always fall on the first Sunday after Passover (as was the case with the very first Easter). But... I think that the divergence, when it occurs, is based upon the definition or determination of the date of the 'full moon,' I THINK that the Hebrew calendar uses the astronomical full moon, but the Christian calendar uses the ecclesiastical full moon, and the ecclesiastical vernal equinox, and the ecclesiastical and astronomical dates do not always coincide; this year happens to be one in which they do not coincide, and the divergence is significant (just about a month, it seems).

I think. Don't blame me if it turns out I'm not infallible.

15QuestionsAway · #3 Post by **15QuestionsAway** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 3:57 pm

Bob78164 wrote:Does anyone know why Passover and Easter are nearly a month apart this year? --Bob

Yes - it's due to the complexities of the Hebrew calendar. The current Hebrew year (5768) has a leap month called Adar I, and this year it's 30 days.

Passover always starts on 15 Nisan. In non-leap years, Nisan is the month after Adar. Because 5768 has a leap month, the Hebrew calendar months fall Adar I, Adar II then Nisan. (Adar II is the same as Adar in a Hebrew calendar year without a leap month).

With reference to the Gregorian calendar, Passover appears to have been "pushed back" 30 days because of Adar I.

The Hebrew calendar works on a 19 year cycle for determining when leap months are inserted. Years 3, 6, 8, 11, 14, 17 and 19 in the cycle get them. 5768 is a year 11. (5768 / 19 has 11 as a remainder). I found the specifics about the Hebrew calendar leap month cycle in Wikipedia.

I don't know the specifics about how the date of Easter is calculated, but it's based on a different lunar calendar system than the lunisolar Hebrew calendar. That accounts for the spread.

ne1410s · #4 Post by **ne1410s** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 4:32 pm

The last time Easter was this early was 1913.

christie1111 · #5 Post by **christie1111** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 6:12 pm

Could someone please tell me what the appropriate greeting for Passover is? I would say Happy Easter to someone who observes Easter. What do I say to my friend Anat who observes Passover?

jarnon · #6 Post by **jarnon** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 6:48 pm

christie1111 wrote:Could someone please tell me what the appropriate greeting for Passover is? I would say Happy Easter to someone who observes Easter. What do I say to my friend Anat who observes Passover?

"Happy Passover" is fine. If you want to be fancy, you can say "Chag Sameach," which means "Happy Holiday." (Pronounce the letters as you would in German.) If she keeps Kosher, you can say "Chag Kasher v'Sameach," "Happy and Kosher Holiday."

gsabc · #7 Post by **gsabc** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 7:40 pm

christie1111 wrote:Could someone please tell me what the appropriate greeting for Passover is? I would say Happy Easter to someone who observes Easter. What do I say to my friend Anat who observes Passover?

"Here's some Colace. Good luck with the matzoh."

PlacentiaSoccerMom · #8 Post by **PlacentiaSoccerMom** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 10:52 pm

If you can find it, look for Passover Coke. It's got real sugar in it. Yum.

It's in 2 Liter bottles and has a Yellow Cap.

PlacentiaSoccerMom · #9 Post by **PlacentiaSoccerMom** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 10:59 pm

Here is a picture of the cap:

kayrharris · #10 Post by **kayrharris** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 11:19 pm

I saw that last year for the first time. It surprised me, as we usually don't get stuff here until years after it comes out. I haven't tried it though. Do they charge more for it?

peacock2121 · #11 Post by **peacock2121** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 6:03 am

A friend told me about the leap month thing. It blew my mind. I still can't wrap my brain around that.

peacock2121 · #12 Post by **peacock2121** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 6:05 am

I always say:

Good Yun-tiff.

I hope that is okay.

I think it means something like good holiday, or something.

It might just mean the sabbath, in which case the people I say it to are being very kind.

jarnon · #13 Post by **jarnon** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 6:11 am

peacock2121 wrote:A friend told me about the leap month thing. It blew my mind. I still can't wrap my brain around that.

The Chinese have them too. I like it better than the Muslim calendar, which always has 12 lunar months (354 days), so Muslim holidays slip 11 days earlier (on our calendar) from year to year.

MarleysGh0st · #14 Post by **MarleysGh0st** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 6:31 am

So if the leap month is the real answer to this question, can we still get an explanation for what an ecclesiastical full moon is?

earendel · #15 Post by **earendel** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 6:37 am

MarleysGh0st wrote:So if the leap month is the real answer to this question, can we still get an explanation for what an ecclesiastical full moon is?

It is an imaginary full moon based not on astronomical observance but on ecclesiastical tables. Space.com has this explanation:

The first Full Moon of spring is usually designated as the Paschal Full Moon or the Paschal Term. Traditionally, Easter is observed on the Sunday after the Paschal Full Moon. If the Paschal Moon occurs on a Sunday, Easter is the following Sunday.

Following these rules, we find that Easter can fall as early as March 22 and as late as April 25. POPE GREGORY XIII decreed this in 1582 as part of the Gregorian calendar. So according to the current ecclesiastical rules Easter in 2005 is to be celebrated rather early in the calendar, on March 27 (in 2008, Easter will arrive even earlier: March 23 - the earliest since 1856!).

Interestingly however, these rules also state that the vernal equinox is fixed on March 21, even though as we pointed out last week, at European longitudes from the years 2008 through 2101 it actually will occur no later than March 20.

Hence, there can sometimes be discrepancies between the ecclesiastical and astronomical versions for dating Easter. In the year 2038, for instance, the equinox falls on March 20 with a full Moon the next day, so astronomically speaking, Easter should fall on March 28 of that year. In reality, however, as mandated by the rules of the Church, Easter in 2038 will be observed as late as it can possibly come, on April 25!

Adding additional confusion is that there is also an "ecclesiastical" full moon, determined from ecclesiastical tables and whose date does not necessarily coincide with the "astronomical" full Moon, which is based solely on astronomical calculations. In 1981, for example, the Full Moon occurred on Sunday, April 19, so Easter should have occurred on the following Sunday, April 26. But based on the ecclesiastical full Moon it occurred on the same day of the Full Moon, April 19!

So, in practice, the date of Easter is determined not from astronomical computations, but rather from other formulae such as Epachs and Golden Numbers.

dodgersteve182 · #16 Post by **dodgersteve182** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 7:29 am

Hey Bob and all other Goyims (Non-Jewish people) of the BB. I'm surprised that one month apart would even phase you?
We of the jewish faith are actually 3,752 Years ahead of the rest of the herd! Happy 5,760 to you! Wow we ran out of party favors and manishevitz sparkling wine hundreds of years Ago.
The Year 5760 The number associated with the Jewish Year is intended to represent the "Year of the World" and is sometimes written A.M. 5760, where A.M. stands for the Latin phrase "Anno Mundi" or "Year of the World."
So there you have Welcome to the Future!

#17 Post by **littlebeast13** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 7:45 am

dodgersteve182 wrote:Hey Bob and all other Goyims (Non-Jewish people) of the BB. I'm surprised that one month apart would even phase you?
We of the jewish faith are actually 3,752 Years ahead of the rest of the herd! Happy 5,760 to you! Wow we ran out of party favors and manishevitz sparkling wine hundreds of years Ago.
The Year 5760 The number associated with the Jewish Year is intended to represent the "Year of the World" and is sometimes written A.M. 5760, where A.M. stands for the Latin phrase "Anno Mundi" or "Year of the World."
So there you have Welcome to the Future!

I'm guessing the Dodgers still suck way off in the future....

lb13

Sir_Galahad · #18 Post by **Sir_Galahad** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 7:53 am

christie1111 wrote:Could someone please tell me what the appropriate greeting for Passover is? I would say Happy Easter to someone who observes Easter. What do I say to my friend Anat who observes Passover?

I have always used "Good / Happy Pesach" although "Good yontif" is a good generic "Happy Holiday" greeting.

gsabc · #19 Post by **gsabc** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 7:59 am

peacock2121 wrote:I always say:

Good Yun-tiff.

I hope that is okay.

I think it means something like good holiday, or something.

It might just mean the sabbath, in which case the people I say it to are being very kind.

"Yom Tov" (long 'o' pronunciation) literally means "good day" in Hebrew, or "day good" if you take them in word order. Together, it's a generic term for "holiday". With general usage and slurring, "yuntiff" is how it usually comes out. It'll do.

kayrharris · #20 Post by **kayrharris** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 8:08 am

littlebeast13 wrote:

I'm guessing the Dodgers still suck way off in the future....

lb13

This just made me laugh and laugh.

fantine33 · #21 Post by **fantine33** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 8:10 am

dodgersteve182 wrote:Hey Bob and all other Goyims (Non-Jewish people) of the BB. I'm surprised that one month apart would even phase you?
We of the jewish faith are actually 3,752 Years ahead of the rest of the herd! Happy 5,760 to you! Wow we ran out of party favors and manishevitz sparkling wine hundreds of years Ago.
The Year 5760 The number associated with the Jewish Year is intended to represent the "Year of the World" and is sometimes written A.M. 5760, where A.M. stands for the Latin phrase "Anno Mundi" or "Year of the World."
So there you have Welcome to the Future!

Aren't you about 8 or 9 years behind the times there? I'm not sure of the exact date, but I know 5763 was about 5 years ago.

And why did I think Bob was Jewish? I know he must have told me that at some point (if I'm talking about of school, please tell me and I'll delete this). Or I could just be delusional, wouldn't be the first time. Ha!

Spock · #22 Post by **Spock** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 8:25 am

Bob78164 wrote:Does anyone know why Passover and Easter are nearly a month apart this year? --Bob

I think it has to do with the relationship between the Mayan calender which ends in 2012 and the lunar cycle-in combo with the original Gregorian calendar collated with the Julian and Hebrew calendars. The Chinese cycle of years may also paly an effect-but scholars are not sure of that yet. IOW-I don't have a clue.

dodgersteve182 · #23 Post by **dodgersteve182** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 10:08 pm

"Aren't you about 8 or 9 years behind the times there? I'm not sure of the exact date, but I know 5763 was about 5 years ago. "

oops! You are Right! I stand corrected. It is 5768, darn and I've been writing 5760 on all of my Purim Cards. LOL!
BTW 8 years later, The Dodgers still Suck! But watch Matt Kemp, if he stays healthy he will be a superstar!

#24 Post by **Bob78164** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 12:03 am

dodgersteve182 wrote:Hey Bob and all other Goyims (Non-Jewish people) of the BB.

Actually, Steve, I'm Jewish. --Bob

christie1111 · #25 Post by **christie1111** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 3:45 am

And why did I think Bob was Jewish? I know he must have told me that at some point (if I'm talking about of school, please tell me and I'll delete this). Or I could just be delusional, wouldn't be the first time. Ha!

Not delusional. Well about this at least!

I feel like PeaBabe posting in the wee hours of the morning.

It isn't a bad thing.

WWTBAM Bored

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