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I am curious as whether you think his ties to the blustery Rev. Jeremiah Wright are meaningful? And, would those ties make you feel differently about Obama?

Quite sometime ago I told Margaret and her sisters that I would vote for Hillary way before I would vote for Obama. They are all Obama supporters--big time as are my two daughters.

Watching clips of Rev. Wright offended me to the max and I am not easily offended. 20 years of listening to this venom and Obama has basically said nothing yet? Scares the heck out of me.

While I will most likely vote for McCain, I would consider Hillary, but never Obama.

I am not an Obama fan.

I think a lot of Obama supporters are in denial about how poorly this sort of thing plays with the general public, especially the independents and Republicans he needs to win in key states.

He can't win with just the black vote, the under-25 vote, and the elitist liberal vote.

Republicans have taken advantage of a perception that Democrats are anti-American elitists who really hate this country and would rather be living in (insert name of current most hated enemy). And they rarely have difficulty finding some loud mouthed moron to spout this type of nonsense and give credence to what they say. That's a part of the reason McGovern got buried. He had a lot of patriotic, caring, concerned people on his side (he was a decorated WWII vet himself), but the flag burning freaks and Jane Fonda types got all the publicity.

In the general election, the Repubs will be able to trot out comments like this and Michelle Obama's "Ive never been proud to live in this country before this year" stuff and paint a picture of Obama as an elitist America-hater. And because his image is really so vague and so shallow, it's hard for him to combat it.

silverscreenselect wrote: Republicans have taken advantage of a perception that Democrats are anti-American elitists who really hate this country and would rather be living in (insert name of current most hated enemy). And they rarely have difficulty finding some loud mouthed moron to spout this type of nonsense and give credence to what they say.

I think this would be more geared to the far Left loonies like Jane Fonda, Tim Robbins and Sean Penn that this would apply to. And, why is it that none of them have ever lived up to their promise of moving to another country (this is rhetorical as their actions speak for themselves)?

Some have postulated that one of the reasons Obama hasn't been more than fluff in his speeches is that his views are actually along the lines of the Rev. Wright. And, once those radical views come out he's dead meat.

Non-issue. Pastor Wright doesn't speak for either Sen. Obama or his campaign. He's just another political supporter who couldn't resist upsetting the apple cart, much like Geraldine Ferraro or Bill Cunningham were for their respective candidates. While some of what Pastor Wright said in those tapes was factual, it really should not have been said in public and especially not behind the pulpit. This is just another distraction from the MSM to get the candidates off message, away from the issues of the country and the world.

Sir_Galahad wrote:I am curious as whether you think his ties to the blustery Rev. Jeremiah Wright are meaningful? And, would those ties make you feel differently about Obama?

Is that the Rev. Wright who is the pastor of the racist church to which Obama belongs?

(This is one of those issues that have been underexamined and too-lightly discussed in the media. I am concerned with this important aspect of Obama's life.)

Appa23 wrote: Is that the Rev. Wright who is the pastor of the racist church to which Obama belongs?

(This is one of those issues that have been underexamined and too-lightly
discussed in the media. I am concerned with this important aspect of Obama's life.)

Yes. The same Rev. Wright that married the Obamas and the same Rev. Wright to whom the Obamas gave a $22K contribution as support.

Sir_Galahad wrote:
. . .
And, why is it that none of them have ever lived up to their promise of moving to another country (this is rhetorical as their actions speak for themselves)?

. . .

Maybe none of the celebrities have, SirG, but I know two couples and one retired single woman who swore to move to another country if Bush got re-elected and did so.

Another couple I don't want to lose from our community is visiting one of the couples as we type. My fear is that they will come home long enough to sell off, pack up, and move.

NellyLunatic1980 wrote:Non-issue. Pastor Wright doesn't speak for either Sen. Obama or his campaign. He's just another political supporter who couldn't resist upsetting the apple cart, much like Geraldine Ferraro or Bill Cunningham were for their respective candidates. While some of what Pastor Wright said in those tapes was factual, it really should not have been said in public and especially not behind the pulpit. This is just another distraction from the MSM to get the candidates off message, away from the issues of the country and the world.

Couldn't resist upsetting the apple cart? He's a radical Anti-American preacher who regularly spewed his hatred behind the pulpit! And, you just slough that off as just another radical wacko? Whew!!

silverscreenselect wrote: Republicans have taken advantage of a perception that Democrats are anti-American elitists who really hate this country and would rather be living in (insert name of current most hated enemy). And they rarely have difficulty finding some loud mouthed moron to spout this type of nonsense and give credence to what they say. ...


In the general election, the Repubs will be able to trot out comments like this and Michelle Obama's "Ive never been proud to live in this country before this year" stuff and paint a picture of Obama as an elitist America-hater. And because his image is really so vague and so shallow, it's hard for him to combat it.

If this were someone whom Obama was simply aquainted with your points would have merit (they still do but not with the following 'and') and should be considered when listening to Republicans de-cry his association and 'agreement in beliefs' by association.

However, this guy was his pastor for 20 something years and was the man who performed at his wedding. So given that, I would say it is reasonable to believe that Obama holds many of the same opinions and thoughts as the pastor does. In fact it is foolishness not to. If you are O.K. with your president having such beliefs, then vote for him. If you are not, then you should give serious consideration to the possibility that Obama does hold many of those beliefs (or opinions).


What if a candidate were an attending member of the Westboro Baptist Church for 20 years and Fred Phelps peformed the wedding? Would that change you mind about a candidate that claims to be moderate on gay rights?

NellyLunatic1980 wrote:Non-issue. Pastor Wright doesn't speak for either Sen. Obama or his campaign. He's just another political supporter who couldn't resist upsetting the apple cart While some of what Pastor Wright said in those tapes was factual, it really should not have been said in public and especially not behind the pulpit. This is just another distraction from the MSM to get the candidates off message, away from the issues of the country and the world.

Nelly, see my comment to SSS.

Obama went to this guys church for 20 years.

This guy performed his wedding ceremony.

This guy has been spewing this hate since the Sunday following 9/11/01 and prior.

Maybe he doesn't speak for Obama or his campaign, but by 20 years of association, Obama does represent that he views Pastor Wright as someone to listen to, even if only once a week.

Sir_Galahad wrote: And, why is it that none of them have ever lived up to their promise of moving to another country (this is rhetorical as their actions speak for themselves)?
.

When I heard about Martina Navratilova getting Czech citizenship I thought we finally had an example of someone moving away in disgust at Bush, but I see she's keeping her US papers.

Martina Navratilova, the former tennis champion, said on Monday that she had regained her Czech citizenship more than 30 years after fleeing Communism to live in the United States.

"I lost it at the time I defected. I got it back on Jan 9," Miss Navratilova, 51, said during a visit to Tokyo.

She said that she was maintaining dual nationality and keeping her US passport.

Born in Prague, she fled to the United States in 1975, at the height of the Cold War, because the authorities refused to allow her to play in America, where the majority of tournaments were held.

She was stripped of her citizenship and became a US citizen six years later.

Last year, she said that while she was once ashamed of the politics of Czechoslovakia, she was now ashamed of the United States under President George W Bush.

"The thing is that we elected Bush. That is worse! Against that, nobody chose a Communist government in Czechoslovakia," she told the Czech daily Lidove Noviny

.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jh ... nis112.xml

SportsFan68 wrote:
Maybe none of the celebrities have, SirG, but I know two couples and one retired single woman who swore to move to another country if Bush got re-elected and did so.

Obvioulsy, some people actually have the courage behind their convictions. Unlike the loudmouth celebrities who don't when to push the pause button.

Sir_Galahad wrote:I am curious as whether you think his ties to the blustery Rev. Jeremiah Wright are meaningful? And, would those ties make you feel differently about Obama?

I don't think that Obama shares those views.

I think that people who are assuming or suspecting that he does would not be voting for him anyway.

wbtravis007 wrote:

Sir_Galahad wrote:I am curious as whether you think his ties to the blustery Rev. Jeremiah Wright are meaningful? And, would those ties make you feel differently about Obama?

I don't think that Obama shares those views.

I think that people who are assuming or suspecting that he does would not be voting for him anyway.

Curious.

Why don't you think so?

I happen to think- based on some of his own writings- that he may very well share some of those views.

wbtravis007 wrote:

Sir_Galahad wrote:I am curious as whether you think his ties to the blustery Rev. Jeremiah Wright are meaningful? And, would those ties make you feel differently about Obama?

I don't think that Obama shares those views.

I think that people who are assuming or suspecting that he does would not be voting for him anyway.

If he does not share the views, then he has been too weak for two decades to speak out against those views and cut his ties to the "church".

Yeah, that sounds like a guy whom we all should want to be President.

(I guess he might just be attending Trinity UCC for the doughnuts and coffee on Sunday morning.)

Appa23 wrote:

wbtravis007 wrote:

Sir_Galahad wrote:I am curious as whether you think his ties to the blustery Rev. Jeremiah Wright are meaningful? And, would those ties make you feel differently about Obama?

I don't think that Obama shares those views.

I think that people who are assuming or suspecting that he does would not be voting for him anyway.

If he does not share the views, then he has been too weak for two decades to speak out against those views and cut his ties to the "church".

Yeah, that sounds like a guy whom we all should want to be President.

(I guess he might just be attending Trinity UCC for the doughnuts and coffee on Sunday morning.)

I think it's naive and just plain dumb to think that all people in all congregations share all of the views espoused by their pastor or each other or are too weak to leave the church if they don't.

Jeemie wrote:

wbtravis007 wrote:

Sir_Galahad wrote:I am curious as whether you think his ties to the blustery Rev. Jeremiah Wright are meaningful? And, would those ties make you feel differently about Obama?

I don't think that Obama shares those views.

I think that people who are assuming or suspecting that he does would not be voting for him anyway.

Curious.

Why don't you think so?

I happen to think- based on some of his own writings- that he may very well share some of those views.

I think that Obama would stand by what he has written and said, and distinguish those views quite easily from some of the things that this other guy has written or said.

wbtravis007 wrote:

Sir_Galahad wrote:I am curious as whether you think his ties to the blustery Rev. Jeremiah Wright are meaningful? And, would those ties make you feel differently about Obama?

I don't think that Obama shares those views.

I think that people who are assuming or suspecting that he does would not be voting for him anyway.

The fact that you don't "think" Obama shares those views indicates that there are some doubts. It's like a woman saying I don't think my husband cheats on me (or vice versa).

No one has ever gotten as far in politics as Obama has this year with such a blank slate as to his beliefs. That's one reason he gets the liberal elitists to back him. Unlike Howard Dean, who staked out his positions in no uncertain terms, Obama hems, haw, votes present, and talks about hope, change and working together. That allows people to think what they want to about him, which has helped him with those who are backing him now.

However, a vague image comes back to bite you when your opposition starts raising the question about just who you are. And whether Obama shares these views or not, the fact is that he hasn't distanced himself from them, he hasn't apologized for the comments and he has continued to associate with this guy up until this very day.

This isn't like Geraldine Ferraro or the "monster" woman who put their foot in their mouth one time and the candidate had to react after the statement was made. This guy has been saying this stuff for twenty years and Obama has stood by him, continued to donate money to his church and even called him the inspiration for his book.

wbtravis007 wrote:
I think it's naive and just plain dumb to think that all people in all congregations share all of the views espoused by their pastor or each other or are too weak to leave the church if they don't.

I for one would not want to remain in a church in which I heard the pastor saying "God d**n America." To be fair, I wouldn't want to remain in a church in which I heard a pastor proclaiming the evils of gays (like Donny McClurkin, another Obama supporter of the cloth, and many, many right wingers).

silverscreenselect wrote:

wbtravis007 wrote:
I think it's naive and just plain dumb to think that all people in all congregations share all of the views espoused by their pastor or each other or are too weak to leave the church if they don't.

I for one would not want to remain in a church in which I heard the pastor saying "God d**n America." To be fair, I wouldn't want to remain in a church in which I heard a pastor proclaiming the evils of gays (like Donny McClurkin, another Obama supporter of the cloth, and many, many right wingers).

Great thread, b/c it allows SSS and I to agree.

sss said:

The fact that you don't "think" Obama shares those views indicates that there are some doubts. It's like a woman saying I don't think my husband cheats on me (or vice versa).

I didn't mean to express that I have doubts. Would it help to change my statement to: "I think that Obama does not share those views"?

I'll tell you something else I think. I think that if your life depended on whether you answered the question correctly (about whether he actually shares those views), you'd answer that he doesn't.

Your posturing makes you sound like a soreloserman. Or, even worse, a ditto-head.

wbtravis007 wrote:

Jeemie wrote:

wbtravis007 wrote: I don't think that Obama shares those views.

I think that people who are assuming or suspecting that he does would not be voting for him anyway.

Curious.

Why don't you think so?

I happen to think- based on some of his own writings- that he may very well share some of those views.

I think that Obama would stand by what he has written and said, and distinguish those views quite easily from some of the things that this other guy has written or said.

Read Obama's book sometime, and then get back to me.

Jeemie wrote:

wbtravis007 wrote:

Jeemie wrote: Curious.

Why don't you think so?

I happen to think- based on some of his own writings- that he may very well share some of those views.

I think that Obama would stand by what he has written and said, and distinguish those views quite easily from some of the things that this other guy has written or said.

Read Obama's book sometime, and then get back to me.

You lost me here. Are you saying that you don't think that he would stand by what he has written? Or that you don't think that he would be able to distinguish those views from this other guy's?