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$60 million fine--money to be used to benefit child abuse victims;

Bowl ban for four years;

Loss of 40 scholarships over four years;

All PSU scholarship players may immediately transfer without having to sit out a year;

All PSU wins vacated from 1998-2011--Paterno no longer winningest coach ever;

Massive monitoring of PSU athletics from NCAA.

NCAA Prez said they heavily considered Death Penalty but chose to avoid it due to the unintended harm it would cause. I have to admit, after thinking about it, that all the stadium workers, small businesses and others who would have suffered if there was no football shouldn't necessarily have to suffer for PSU's sins. That said, this effectively kills PSU as a national football program and is wholly justified.

And...my guess is the next hammer will come from the Big 10--which is likely to say that given the above, PSU will be so non-competitive in the conference that they are suspended for a period of time concident with the sanctions--they may play the games, but they won't count in conference standings..

I'd like for them to sue, but they're passively taking all of what's being handed to them... so they really do have nothing left.

Still feels all very craven to me. I'm glad the NCAA has courageously decided to protect its brand.

Wow. I can't believe that Penn State is an isolated case. This is a bold wake-up call.

Weyoun wrote:I'd like for them to sue, but they're passively taking all of what's being handed to them... so they really do have nothing left.

Still feels all very craven to me. I'm glad the NCAA has courageously decided to protect its brand.

The fact that this all came down so soon after the release of the report is an indication that Penn State (or at least some people prominently involved with the school) wanted to acknowledge their responsibility in a way more meaningful than taking down a statue of Joe Paterno. My guess is that the school suggested to the NCAA the types of sanctions they would go along with and the details (just how many scholarships and how many years of bowl ineligibility) got worked out pretty quickly. It's bigger than anything else the NCAA has handed down with the exception of the SMU death penalty case, and it's going to take Penn State a while to recover from this.

I hear this was a negotiated settlement.

silverscreenselect wrote:

Weyoun wrote:I'd like for them to sue, but they're passively taking all of what's being handed to them... so they really do have nothing left.

Still feels all very craven to me. I'm glad the NCAA has courageously decided to protect its brand.

The fact that this all came down so soon after the release of the report is an indication that Penn State (or at least some people prominently involved with the school) wanted to acknowledge their responsibility in a way more meaningful than taking down a statue of Joe Paterno. My guess is that the school suggested to the NCAA the types of sanctions they would go along with and the details (just how many scholarships and how many years of bowl ineligibility) got worked out pretty quickly. It's bigger than anything else the NCAA has handed down with the exception of the SMU death penalty case, and it's going to take Penn State a while to recover from this.

It'll take them at least eight years...

Four years from now, when most of the official sanctions are over, PSU will have no more than 60 scholarship football players on campus, while most other D1 schools will have close to 100. It won't be until four years AFTER that point that they will be back up to 100. This is why so many sources yesterday were saying the one year Death Penalty would have been preferable.

The rest of this week is going to tell a lot about how the Lions weather this--most football programs usually hold onto a couple of scholarships to give out to unexpected arrivals, emergencies, walk-ons who show promise...therefore, the kids on the PSU team now and those arriving (who right now face an entire college career with no postseason games) still have a chance to leave.

I suspect it was an "offer they couldn't refuse."

I have no doubt that other college presidents were happy to throw them overboard, even if it meant unprecedented power for the NCAA, just because they didn't like the stink.

And if they sued it would be written off as denial and become a PR disaster.

I don't know.... Sandusky was guilty. The officials that helped cover it up, including apparently Paterno, were guilty. The football team and the school as a whole, except for the aforementioned individuals, did nothing wrong and didn't know there was anything wrong. Why are they being punished?

flockofseagulls104 wrote:I don't know.... Sandusky was guilty. The officials that helped cover it up, including apparently Paterno, were guilty. The football team and the school as a whole, except for the aforementioned individuals, did nothing wrong and didn't know there was anything wrong. Why are they being punished?

Because corporations and institutions are legally responsible for the actions of those who lead them. That's why we have corporate crimes and lawsuits rather than just individual crimes and lawsuits.

Missed this in the initial reporting of the sanctions, but the NCAA is apparently willing to waive the scholarship limit for teams willing to accept PSU football players as early as this year...and CBS is reporting PSU recruits have already started making inquiries about transferring.

silverscreenselect wrote:

flockofseagulls104 wrote:I don't know.... Sandusky was guilty. The officials that helped cover it up, including apparently Paterno, were guilty. The football team and the school as a whole, except for the aforementioned individuals, did nothing wrong and didn't know there was anything wrong. Why are they being punished?

Because corporations and institutions are legally responsible for the actions of those who lead them. That's why we have corporate crimes and lawsuits rather than just individual crimes and lawsuits.

When did the NCAA become part of the legal system?
Did Obama do that on a Friday?
Let the lawsuits happen, but in my opinion the NCAA should not punish the innocent. This will not undo anything that Sandusky did or serve as any prevention that it won't happen again, other than serve as a deterrent. But the deterrent should be directed at those who transgressed, not those who didn't.

The death penalty probably hurt SMU even more than anyone expected, which may be why we have not seen it since. Even in this era in which there are way too many bowl games it took until 2009 for SMU to get its first bowl bid since the penalty.

If it was not used here I think it's safe to say RIP NCAA Death Penalty.

the psu hacks emerged from their bunkers on the talk shows today. They dont know why players and students who had nothing to do with the conspiracy are being punished. And the businesses in center county. And the people who live near the stadium who rent out their lawns on game day,blahblah

Using this reasoning, if you have 3 kids and kill your wife you dont go to jail because it wouldnt be fair to the kids to be without a dad.

BigDrawMan wrote:the psu hacks emerged from their bunkers on the talk shows today. They dont know why players and students who had nothing to do with the conspiracy are being punished. And the businesses in center county. And the people who live near the stadium who rent out their lawns on game day,blahblah

Using this reasoning, if you have 3 kids and kill your wife you dont go to jail because it wouldnt be fair to the kids to be without a dad.

More like if your boss and his boss kill your wife and you don't know about it or have anything to do with it....
It's a tough deal all around, for sure.

t.

tlynn78 wrote:

BigDrawMan wrote:the psu hacks emerged from their bunkers on the talk shows today. They dont know why players and students who had nothing to do with the conspiracy are being punished. And the businesses in center county. And the people who live near the stadium who rent out their lawns on game day,blahblah

Using this reasoning, if you have 3 kids and kill your wife you dont go to jail because it wouldnt be fair to the kids to be without a dad.

More like if your boss and his boss kill your wife and you don't know about it or have anything to do with it....
It's a tough deal all around, for sure.

t.

No, it is more like what I said.

much more.

extremely much morer

BigDrawMan wrote:

tlynn78 wrote:

BigDrawMan wrote:the psu hacks emerged from their bunkers on the talk shows today. They dont know why players and students who had nothing to do with the conspiracy are being punished. And the businesses in center county. And the people who live near the stadium who rent out their lawns on game day,blahblah

Using this reasoning, if you have 3 kids and kill your wife you dont go to jail because it wouldnt be fair to the kids to be without a dad.

More like if your boss and his boss kill your wife and you don't know about it or have anything to do with it....
It's a tough deal all around, for sure.

t.

No, it is more like what I said.

much more.

extremely much morer

"Sir, your client has been tried and convicted of the murder of both his mother and father. What do have to say in the matter of his sentencing?"

"Your Honour, I can only ask that the Court have mercy on a poor orphan...."

elwoodblues wrote:The death penalty probably hurt SMU even more than anyone expected, which may be why we have not seen it since. Even in this era in which there are way too many bowl games it took until 2009 for SMU to get its first bowl bid since the penalty.

If it was not used here I think it's safe to say RIP NCAA Death Penalty.

The Death Penalty has been used twice since SMU. Morehouse College Men's Soccer in 2004 & 2005, and MacMurray College Men's Tennis in 2005-06 and 2006-07.

I do think it is safe to say that it will never be used in Football again. I would be shocked if it is ever used in Men's Basketball either.

TheCalvinator24 wrote:

elwoodblues wrote:The death penalty probably hurt SMU even more than anyone expected, which may be why we have not seen it since. Even in this era in which there are way too many bowl games it took until 2009 for SMU to get its first bowl bid since the penalty.

If it was not used here I think it's safe to say RIP NCAA Death Penalty.

The Death Penalty has been used twice since SMU. Morehouse College Men's Soccer in 2004 & 2005, and MacMurray College Men's Tennis in 2005-06 and 2006-07.

I do think it is safe to say that it will never be used in Football again. I would be shocked if it is ever used in Men's Basketball either.

I'm from Atlanta and I don't recall hearing about Morehouse getting the death penalty. Considering the nature of the sports and the schools, I'm kind of curious what type of infractions incurred, and what anyone would have thought the schools might have gained by committing such infractions.

Sistine Fanny wrote:

BigDrawMan wrote:

tlynn78 wrote:

More like if your boss and his boss kill your wife and you don't know about it or have anything to do with it....
It's a tough deal all around, for sure.

t.

No, it is more like what I said.

much more.

extremely much morer

"Sir, your client has been tried and convicted of the murder of both his mother and father. What do have to say in the matter of his sentencing?"

"Your Honour, I can only ask that the Court have mercy on a poor orphan...."

It is nothing like you said, bdm. It is Jr High Cafeteria and 2 kids get into a fight, so for the rest of the semester all the kids in the cafeteria have to sit in assigned seats and are not allowed to talk.

Prosecute fully the people who did wrong. They lose their jobs and are replaced by people with a moral compass. They go to jail for protecting Sandusky and putting kids in danger. If you want, take the wins away. But don't shut down the program and harm people both inside and outside the University who had nothing to do with it.

Seeing that this was a "negotiated settlement" (although how negotiable things were is questionable), and that the President at PSU signed a consent decree (meaning that this is a done deal as far as Penn State and the NCAA is concerned - no appeals) makes me wonder if there was genuine concern about what might be found if there were further digging around by the NCAA.

Of course, we've found that the ability of the NCAA to do actual digging seems to be rather limited, and they wait for legal entities to do the digging for them -- the lawsuit against Reggie Bush, the criminal case against the Miami booster, and now the Sandusky case, for instance.

And, although this isn't fatal to the PSU football program, it is crippling. Yes, both Miami and Alabama won football championships after some serious scholarship limitations. But, beyond that, there is the problem of lack of big football money for the next few years. I don't know if the Big 10 has rules (but I suspect it does) where teams on probation or restricted from bowls don't get their cut in the league's bowl money revenue-sharing, or in other TV revenues, and that's no small potatoes anymore.

The next big shoe to drop, and likely one we won't hear about (barring some FOIA digging) will be settlements with the victims. And, given Sandusky's convictions, they might be as one-sided a negotiation as the one with the NCAA was.

SpacemanSpiff wrote:Seeing that this was a "negotiated settlement" (although how negotiable things were is questionable), and that the President at PSU signed a consent decree (meaning that this is a done deal as far as Penn State and the NCAA is concerned - no appeals) makes me wonder if there was genuine concern about what might be found if there were further digging around by the NCAA.

Of course, we've found that the ability of the NCAA to do actual digging seems to be rather limited, and they wait for legal entities to do the digging for them -- the lawsuit against Reggie Bush, the criminal case against the Miami booster, and now the Sandusky case, for instance.

And, although this isn't fatal to the PSU football program, it is crippling. Yes, both Miami and Alabama won football championships after some serious scholarship limitations. But, beyond that, there is the problem of lack of big football money for the next few years. I don't know if the Big 10 has rules (but I suspect it does) where teams on probation or restricted from bowls don't get their cut in the league's bowl money revenue-sharing, or in other TV revenues, and that's no small potatoes anymore.

The next big shoe to drop, and likely one we won't hear about (barring some FOIA digging) will be settlements with the victims. And, given Sandusky's convictions, they might be as one-sided a negotiation as the one with the NCAA was.

That's where the emphasis should be. That's where the University should be penalized. And the Administrators that enabled and protected Sandusky should be fired, prosecuted and sued one by one. Let the legal system punish Penn State for their role in letting Sandusky get as far as he did. The guy with a store that makes his year during football season in State College should not have to shut his business because of what Jerry Sandusky did. The people who have jobs because of the Penn State football team should not have to lose them because of what Jerry Sandusky did. I have no loyalty or connection to Penn State at all. But I think the NCAA made a very wrong decision, and probably because they feared to appear politically incorrect.

Damn, do I have to post Skanki in this thread too?

Maybe I'll order a T-shirt for flock....

lb13

SpacemanSpiff wrote:The next big shoe to drop, and likely one we won't hear about (barring some FOIA digging) will be settlements with the victims. And, given Sandusky's convictions, they might be as one-sided a negotiation as the one with the NCAA was.

From what I've been reading in some of the insurance news bulletins that come my way, Penn State's insurance may not cover many of these claims, so they'll have to foot the bill themselves. If it's a state college, there might be a question of sovereign immunity involved, depending on exactly what entities are named defendants.

I'm bringing up another old topic, because the NCAA decided today to shave two years off their sanctions on Penn State. Alumni around here are rejoicing.

jarnon wrote:I'm bringing up another old topic, because the NCAA decided today to shave two years off their sanctions on Penn State. Alumni around here are rejoicing.

This one is!

And reinstating all of the 85 scholarships.

Yay for the players!