WWTBAM Bored

Pam Mueller (BB: pamiam)
Princeton, NJ
Working on a Ph.D. in psychology

Pam begins round two today with her ATA and $63,100 in her bank

$100K
The Henry Ford Museum in Dearborn, MI displays a test tube that allegedly holds what odd memento of Ford’s hero, Thomas Edison?
A. His pinky toe
B. His breath
C. A drop of his sweat
D. A lock of his hair

Spoiler

Pam recalls Thomas Edison’s quote about genius being one percent inspiration and ninety-nine percent perspiration.
She believes because of the quote, Henry Ford would have kept a test tube with a drop of Thomas Edison’s sweat .
Pam makes a drop of his sweat her final answer.

Spoiler

B. His breath
Pam leaves with $25K

I knew this one cold. I went to the Henry Ford Museum/Greenfield Village as a kid and I remember learning this while there. I was screaming "Don't say sweat!!" at the TV.

Surprised she missed it. Another way to reason it out - sure, that perspiration quote was pretty famous, but I'm not sure how Ford would go about preserving a drop of sweat in a vial - even if it's really well sealed, it would likely evaporate within the vial at some point, since the air inside is probably around one atmosphere. While Edison's "last breath" is a goofy thing in itself, you could at least think that someone could have "caught" it and place it in a sealed container. Especially someone with some idiosyncratic beliefs on the soul and such, as was the case with Ford.

Looking at pictures on the internet, it's just a freakin' vial with what looks like a cork stopper. Oh, Henry!

Been here.

Lived in Michigan for 8 months.

So I knew this one and Ken Basin's Fresca questions cold (yeah...I know they're not together anymore).

BBTranscriptTeam wrote:Pam Mueller (BB: pamiam)
Princeton, NJ
Working on a Ph.D. in psychology

Pam begins round two today with her ATA and $63,100 in her bank

$100K
The Henry Ford Museum in Dearborn, MI displays a test tube that allegedly holds what odd memento of Ford’s hero, Thomas Edison?
A. His pinky toe
B. His breath
C. A drop of his sweat
D. A lock of his hair

Thank you Uncle John's Bathroom Reader. That had to be where I had picked up this tidbit....

lb13

Well, I didn't grow up in Michigan, I haven't been to that museum, and I'd have gone for Pam's reasoning, too.

MarleysGh0st wrote:Well, I didn't grow up in Michigan, I haven't been to that museum, and I'd have gone for Pam's reasoning, too.

Same for me; I would walk if I had that much and only go if under $50K. I was there once in 1997 and did not remember this item.

BBTranscriptTeam wrote:Pam Mueller (BB: pamiam)
Princeton, NJ
Working on a Ph.D. in psychology

Pam begins round two today with her ATA and $63,100 in her bank

$100K
The Henry Ford Museum in Dearborn, MI displays a test tube that allegedly holds what odd memento of Ford’s hero, Thomas Edison?
A. His pinky toe
B. His breath
C. A drop of his sweat
D. A lock of his hair

Spoiler

Pam recalls Thomas Edison’s quote about genius being one percent inspiration and ninety-nine percent perspiration.
She believes because of the quote, Henry Ford would have kept a test tube with a drop of Thomas Edison’s sweat .
Pam makes a drop of his sweat her final answer.

Spoiler

B. His breath
Pam leaves with $25K

I would have done exactly the same thing. That quote about genius being "1% inspiration and 99% perspiration" makes for a wicked, wicked distractor. I was sure she was right until the answer was revealed.

I pre-called sweat before the choices came up. I would have gone with C. and been gone as well.

Weyoun wrote:Another way to reason it out - sure, that perspiration quote was pretty famous, but I'm not sure how Ford would go about preserving a drop of sweat in a vial - even if it's really well sealed, it would likely evaporate within the vial at some point, since the air inside is probably around one atmosphere.

Equilibrium vapor pressure for water is about 3 kPa at room temp.; it would be lower for sweat due to Raoult's law (Vapor pressure depression of a solution). 1 drop of water is about 50 mg = about 0.003 moles. That's enough vapor to occupy about 2 liters volume at 3kPa pressure. So in an airtight vial of less than 2 L, some of the sweat wouldn't evaporate. In a typical size vial (10-20 mL), only about 1% or less of the sweat would evaporate. Much less than this if the vial were refrigerated, or if the sweat was collected on a humid day with partially or fully saturated air. And if it's not an airtight vial, then there's really not much point to try to collect either sweat or breath anyway.

smilergrogan wrote:

Weyoun wrote:Another way to reason it out - sure, that perspiration quote was pretty famous, but I'm not sure how Ford would go about preserving a drop of sweat in a vial - even if it's really well sealed, it would likely evaporate within the vial at some point, since the air inside is probably around one atmosphere.

Equilibrium vapor pressure for water is about 3 kPa at room temp.; it would be lower for sweat due to Raoult's law (Vapor pressure depression of a solution). 1 drop of water is about 50 mg = about 0.003 moles. That's enough vapor to occupy about 2 liters volume at 3kPa pressure. So in an airtight vial of less than 2 L, some of the sweat wouldn't evaporate. In a typical size vial (10-20 mL), only about 1% or less of the sweat would evaporate. Much less than this if the vial were refrigerated, or if the sweat was collected on a humid day with partially or fully saturated air. And if it's not an airtight vial, then there's really not much point to try to collect either sweat or breath anyway.

Those are greats points. My thinking was that, even if sealed, a small drop of sweat would evaporate to saturate the air that was in the vial, so the water might still "disappear." I didn't realize how poorly room air can incorporate water vapor. But, then, when you think about it, at room temperature it should be that way, or else we might not have lakes, rivers, etc.

But I think your last point is the driving one - we can't really worry about the vapor pressure since it's not a closed container - and no real equilibrium can be established, at least not until the droplet has evaporated.

Back to the question, I think the original point still holds - a breath of air is ineffable - you can't see it, so who knows it is not there? You can CLAIM it has the breath. Whereas a droplet of sweat would really have to be seen - some trace salt in a vial won't please museum goers. "It used to be there, but it evaporated," doesn't impress.

Weyoun wrote:

smilergrogan wrote:

Weyoun wrote:Another way to reason it out - sure, that perspiration quote was pretty famous, but I'm not sure how Ford would go about preserving a drop of sweat in a vial - even if it's really well sealed, it would likely evaporate within the vial at some point, since the air inside is probably around one atmosphere.

Equilibrium vapor pressure for water is about 3 kPa at room temp.; it would be lower for sweat due to Raoult's law (Vapor pressure depression of a solution). 1 drop of water is about 50 mg = about 0.003 moles. That's enough vapor to occupy about 2 liters volume at 3kPa pressure. So in an airtight vial of less than 2 L, some of the sweat wouldn't evaporate. In a typical size vial (10-20 mL), only about 1% or less of the sweat would evaporate. Much less than this if the vial were refrigerated, or if the sweat was collected on a humid day with partially or fully saturated air. And if it's not an airtight vial, then there's really not much point to try to collect either sweat or breath anyway.

Those are greats points. My thinking was that, even if sealed, a small drop of sweat would evaporate to saturate the air that was in the vial, so the water might still "disappear." I didn't realize how poorly room air can incorporate water vapor. But, then, when you think about it, at room temperature it should be that way, or else we might not have lakes, rivers, etc.

But I think your last point is the driving one - we can't really worry about the vapor pressure since it's not a closed container - and no real equilibrium can be established, at least not until the droplet has evaporated.

Back to the question, I think the original point still holds - a breath of air is ineffable - you can't see it, so who knows it is not there? You can CLAIM it has the breath. Whereas a droplet of sweat would really have to be seen - some trace salt in a vial won't please museum goers. "It used to be there, but it evaporated," doesn't impress.

Well, I think the bar is pretty low for impressing someone who would be impressed by "this test tube with a cork in it contains Edison's dying breath", so there's probably a good chance that such a person would be equally impressed by "this slightly salty vial used to contain a drop of Edison's sweat". Ford should have just set out an open, empty beaker labeled "this beaker likely contains at least 10 air molecules that were part of Edison's dying breath". Both impressive and true!

It's interesting that Weyoun brought up the elaborated story about his "last breath" when the question only specified his "breath". Leaving out "last" may have made the claim less outrageous, but it also reduced the symbolic significance of what such a test tube would contain, vs. the significance of a drop of sweat (evaporated or not) in relation to the "ninety-nine percent perspiration" quotation.

The Henry Ford Museum talks about the legend, then gives the less spectacular facts:

http://www.thehenryford.org/exhibits/pi ... y.asp#more

In the late 1980s, the museum acquired a photocopy of a letter from Charles A. Edison, the inventor’s son, to prominent national radio commentator Walter Winchell. The whereabouts of the original are unknown. Dated June 27, 1953, the letter reads:

During Mr. Edison’s last illness there was a rack of eight empty test tubes close to his bedside. They were from his work bench in the Chemical Room at the Laboratory in West Orange. Though he is mainly remembered for his work in electrical fields, his real love was chemistry. It is not strange, but symbolic, that those test tubes were close to him at the end. Immediately after his passing I asked Dr. Hubert S. Howe, his attending physician, to seal them with paraffin. He did. Later I gave one of them to Mr. Ford.

I wonder if the question had used the phrase "last breath" we'd have seen a different result - not because it would have rang a bell in the contestant's mind, but because it would have been tempting enough distractor to convince her to walk.

On Pam's carryover episode, Meredith made a big deal about the fact that Pam was wearing the same pink dress that she wore on the previous episode because pink was her lucky color. She also asked whether Pam got a good night's sleep to prepare for her return to the hot-whatevertheycallitthesedays. Was this just empty TV chatter to maintain the illusion of it being a different day, or was it really a different day? Can someone check to see if her boyfriend and other audience members were wearing the same clothes in both episodes? My recording of Friday's episode seems to have erased itself. And has pink always been Pam's lucky color? Did she wear pink on her Jeopardy appearances?

Regarding Pam's final question, I have heard that factoid before so I wouldn't have had to think about it, but I agree that it would be much easier to claim that an empty tube has Edison's breath in it than his sweat, because how could anyone disprove that? On the other hand, I still have a novelty post card in a box somewhere that I received about 30 years ago. It has a small glass tube on the front with a clear liquid inside, with the claim that it contains actual sweat from Elvis Presley. Last time I checked (several years ago) the liquid was still there. And I filled up a regular plastic drinking bottle at the Shrine at Lourdes, France in 1995 and have given most of it away since then, but I still have enough left to perform a few exorcisms, despite not taking much care to preserve it.

It would have been an evil distracter if one of the four answer choices had been: D) Edison's last Fresca.

TheConfessor wrote:On Pam's carryover episode, Meredith made a big deal about the fact that Pam was wearing the same pink dress that she wore on the previous episode because pink was her lucky color. She also asked whether Pam got a good night's sleep to prepare for her return to the hot-whatevertheycallitthesedays. Was this just empty TV chatter to maintain the illusion of it being a different day, or was it really a different day? Can someone check to see if her boyfriend and other audience members were wearing the same clothes in both episodes? My recording of Friday's episode seems to have erased itself. And has pink always been Pam's lucky color? Did she wear pink on her Jeopardy appearances?

Regarding Pam's final question, I have heard that factoid before so I wouldn't have had to think about it, but I agree that it would be much easier to claim that an empty tube has Edison's breath in it than his sweat, because how could anyone disprove that? On the other hand, I still have a novelty post card in a box somewhere that I received about 30 years ago. It has a small glass tube on the front with a clear liquid inside, with the claim that it contains actual sweat from Elvis Presley. Last time I checked (several years ago) the liquid was still there. And I filled up a regular plastic drinking bottle at the Shrine at Lourdes, France in 1995 and have given most of it away since then, but I still have enough left to perform a few exorcisms, despite not taking much care to preserve it.

It would have been an evil distracter if one of the four answer choices had been: D) Edison's last Fresca.

Pam's boyfriend did have a different shirt on. The first day it was blue, next day, I believe reddish? But definitely different. I thought it was funny that he changed his outfit, but she didn't.

It should have been a different taping day. They tape a week's shows in one day. Of course they could have changed that due to editing.

TheConfessor wrote:Regarding Pam's final question, I have heard that factoid before so I wouldn't have had to think about it, but I agree that it would be much easier to claim that an empty tube has Edison's breath in it than his sweat, because how could anyone disprove that?

Well, the question is all about an obscure legend, since they said "allegedly". As that web page from the museum points out, the best they can document is that it's air from the room in which he died.

A few "last breath" molecules might have dispersed into the test tube before it was sealed. Dr. Howe probably breathed more of his own breath in there, while he was sealing it.