WWTBAM Bored

Last Saturday while my daughter was out of her apartment in Fort Myers, Florida, the police entered it without a warrant because they were searching for the couple who drove there from Denver with her. (They are no longer friends.) They were looking for the couple in order to take their daughter into CFS custody as the couple are doing drugs.

My daughter has found an attorney and will be suing the police for violating her 4th Amendment rights.

Bob Juch wrote:Last Saturday while my daughter was out of her apartment in Fort Myers, Florida, the police entered it without a warrant because they were searching for the couple who drove there from Denver with her. (They are no longer friends.) They were looking for the couple in order to take their daughter into CFS custody as the couple are doing drugs.

My daughter has found an attorney and will be suing the police for violating her 4th Amendment rights.

She might be right, but what does she hope to accomplish by suing?

How did they get in? Someone let them in while your daughter wasn't there? Broke down the door?

TheConfessor wrote:

Bob Juch wrote:Last Saturday while my daughter was out of her apartment in Fort Myers, Florida, the police entered it without a warrant because they were searching for the couple who drove there from Denver with her. (They are no longer friends.) They were looking for the couple in order to take their daughter into CFS custody as the couple are doing drugs.

My daughter has found an attorney and will be suing the police for violating her 4th Amendment rights.

She might be right, but what does she hope to accomplish by suing?

Suits like this tend to get publicized which sometimes leads to police departments changing their policies. And depending on the circumstances, there could well be substantial amounts of property damage as a result of the search.

If the apt. owner (or their representative) let them in using a master key, does that change the legal fact base at all? I know most leases allow for the apt. owners to enter premises without notice for specific purposes (mostly to determine if renter is in or out of compliance with acceptable use).

Housing fugitives is probably an unacceptable use.

TheConfessor wrote:

Bob Juch wrote:Last Saturday while my daughter was out of her apartment in Fort Myers, Florida, the police entered it without a warrant because they were searching for the couple who drove there from Denver with her. (They are no longer friends.) They were looking for the couple in order to take their daughter into CFS custody as the couple are doing drugs.

My daughter has found an attorney and will be suing the police for violating her 4th Amendment rights.

She might be right, but what does she hope to accomplish by suing?

She wants money primarily but also wants to make sure that doesn't happen to anyone else. I tried to talk her out of it, but seeing how she's not working she has the time.

BackInTex wrote:If the apt. owner (or their representative) let them in using a master key, does that change the legal fact base at all? I know most leases allow for the apt. owners to enter premises without notice for specific purposes (mostly to determine if renter is in or out of compliance with acceptable use).

Housing fugitives is probably an unacceptable use.

I have never had a lease that allows apartment management to enter my apartment without notice except in emergencies, e.g. leaking water. What you see on TV with cops going to a manager and asking to be let in is fiction (most of the time). The only reason my daughter knew about it is because a policeman left his card with a note on the back on her counter.

BackInTex wrote:If the apt. owner (or their representative) let them in using a master key, does that change the legal fact base at all? I know most leases allow for the apt. owners to enter premises without notice for specific purposes (mostly to determine if renter is in or out of compliance with acceptable use).

Housing fugitives is probably an unacceptable use.

I think she is out of luck if the owner of the property (or the land lord) let them in. If they were looking for people, I doubt there would be any appreciable damage.

Bob Juch wrote:The only reason my daughter knew about it is because a policeman left his card with a note on the back on her counter.

Oh? So there wasn't any damage from the search?

(If they were searching for people, instead of for illegal substances or something of that sort, I don't imagine they'd need to be so thorough about it.)

MarleysGh0st wrote:

Bob Juch wrote:The only reason my daughter knew about it is because a policeman left his card with a note on the back on her counter.

Oh? So there wasn't any damage from the search?

(If they were searching for people, instead of for illegal substances or something of that sort, I don't imagine they'd need to be so thorough about it.)

Yes, actually there was. They let her dog out of the bathroom who messed-up the apartment. Seeing how her dog is a pit bull, they're lucky it didn't attack them.

Bob Juch wrote:

MarleysGh0st wrote:

Bob Juch wrote:The only reason my daughter knew about it is because a policeman left his card with a note on the back on her counter.

Oh? So there wasn't any damage from the search?

(If they were searching for people, instead of for illegal substances or something of that sort, I don't imagine they'd need to be so thorough about it.)

Yes, actually there was. They let her dog out of the bathroom who messed-up the apartment. Seeing how her dog is a pit bull, they're lucky it didn't attack them.

They aren't the only ones lucky he didn't attack. Sadly, the dog wouldn't still be alive.

t.

christie1111 wrote:

BackInTex wrote:If the apt. owner (or their representative) let them in using a master key, does that change the legal fact base at all? I know most leases allow for the apt. owners to enter premises without notice for specific purposes (mostly to determine if renter is in or out of compliance with acceptable use).

Housing fugitives is probably an unacceptable use.

I think she is out of luck if the owner of the property (or the land lord) let them in. If they were looking for people, I doubt there would be any appreciable damage.

A tenant has a reasonable expectation of privacy in leased property, even though the landlord may have a master key. That does not give the landlord the authority to consent to a police search of the premises on the tenant's behalf.

silverscreenselect wrote:

christie1111 wrote:

BackInTex wrote:If the apt. owner (or their representative) let them in using a master key, does that change the legal fact base at all? I know most leases allow for the apt. owners to enter premises without notice for specific purposes (mostly to determine if renter is in or out of compliance with acceptable use).

Housing fugitives is probably an unacceptable use.

I think she is out of luck if the owner of the property (or the land lord) let them in. If they were looking for people, I doubt there would be any appreciable damage.

A tenant has a reasonable expectation of privacy in leased property, even though the landlord may have a master key. That does not give the landlord the authority to consent to a police search of the premises on the tenant's behalf.

Even in the situation of children in possible imminent danger? Not saying it is right, but it seems I've seen that used to 'expedite' certain actions.

BackInTex wrote:

silverscreenselect wrote:

christie1111 wrote:
I think she is out of luck if the owner of the property (or the land lord) let them in. If they were looking for people, I doubt there would be any appreciable damage.

A tenant has a reasonable expectation of privacy in leased property, even though the landlord may have a master key. That does not give the landlord the authority to consent to a police search of the premises on the tenant's behalf.

Even in the situation of children in possible imminent danger? Not saying it is right, but it seems I've seen that used to 'expedite' certain actions.

There's two separate issues here. The first is whether the person has a reasonable expectation of privacy which entitles the person and his property to be protected under the Fourth Amendment. The second is whether there were exigent circumstances which would excuse the police from obtaining a warrant. The mere fact that a suspect (even one for whom the police might have an arrest warrant) might be present somewhere doesn't by itself give the police the authority to go into other people's homes at will. It might be different if there was actual evidence (the child being seen or heard in your daughter's home) that the child was actually there at the time the police entered the home.

I think it says somewhere in the Constitution that if it's "For The Children tm" the rest of the Constitution doesnt matter.

Wow, I just got off the phone with my daughter and it's worse than I thought at first:

Not only did they enter her apartment --- they could have just looked around, said "no kid here" and left --- but they used her computer to go on her Facebook account and print a photo of her and the girl. They also went through her mail. They took the photo around to the other apartments and asked if they had seen the girl. So now Heather has her neighbors wondering what's going on. Heather feels like she has to move now.

Heather had only picked up the girl and her father and took them to her apartment for an hour or so. It tuns out the girl's mother's mother had called the police initially and said her granddaughter had been missing for six days --- which was false. It seems this is actually a custody dispute. (Heather had called me at work so I didn't get the full details earlier.)

I can't believe what an egregious civil rights violation that was!

So how did they get into the apartment?

Asked before and never answered.

Your daughter's computer is not password protected?

christie1111 wrote:So how did they get into the apartment?

Asked before and never answered.

The manager let them in. The police said, "we think there may be a missing child in there."

christie1111 wrote:Your daughter's computer is not password protected?

Actually it is but she must not have locked it or powered it off. Facebook uses a cookie instead of asking for a signin each time.

Bob Juch wrote:

christie1111 wrote:Your daughter's computer is not password protected?

Actually it is but she must not have locked it or powered it off. Facebook uses a cookie instead of asking for a signin each time.

No, it does not automatically, unless you allow it to. You can click off the "remember me" button.

Perhaps your daughter should get in touch with Vandal's publisher and get her fiction printed to be sold, if she needs money that badly.

I think she has a real problem with reality, or perhaps suffers from pathological lying. Or, you suffer from Munchausen Syndrome by Proxy

a1mamacat wrote:

Bob Juch wrote:

christie1111 wrote:Your daughter's computer is not password protected?

Actually it is but she must not have locked it or powered it off. Facebook uses a cookie instead of asking for a signin each time.

No, it does not automatically, unless you allow it to. You can click off the "remember me" button.

Perhaps your daughter should get in touch with Vandal's publisher and get her fiction printed to be sold, if she needs money that badly.

I think she has a real problem with reality, or perhaps suffers from pathological lying. Or, you suffer from Munchausen Syndrome by Proxy

WTF? Where did you get that? His daughter appears to live alone, so why would she click off the "remember me" button on Facebook? I certainly wouldn't.

I think your comments are utterly rude and uncalled for.

plasticene wrote:

a1mamacat wrote:

Bob Juch wrote: Actually it is but she must not have locked it or powered it off. Facebook uses a cookie instead of asking for a signin each time.

No, it does not automatically, unless you allow it to. You can click off the "remember me" button.

Perhaps your daughter should get in touch with Vandal's publisher and get her fiction printed to be sold, if she needs money that badly.

I think she has a real problem with reality, or perhaps suffers from pathological lying. Or, you suffer from Munchausen Syndrome by Proxy

WTF? Where did you get that? His daughter appears to live alone, so why would she click off the "remember me" button on Facebook? I certainly wouldn't.

I think your comments are utterly rude and uncalled for.

She got it from 10 years of observation, probably.

There's a lot of smart people on this Bored.... and I don't mean smart as in booksmart, I mean smart as in they've been around the block a few times and can smell the aroma of bullshit from a good distance...

lb13

littlebeast13 wrote:

plasticene wrote:

a1mamacat wrote:
No, it does not automatically, unless you allow it to. You can click off the "remember me" button.

Perhaps your daughter should get in touch with Vandal's publisher and get her fiction printed to be sold, if she needs money that badly.

I think she has a real problem with reality, or perhaps suffers from pathological lying. Or, you suffer from Munchausen Syndrome by Proxy

WTF? Where did you get that? His daughter appears to live alone, so why would she click off the "remember me" button on Facebook? I certainly wouldn't.

I think your comments are utterly rude and uncalled for.

She got it from 10 years of observation, probably.

There's a lot of smart people on this Bored.... and I don't mean smart as in booksmart, I mean smart as in they've been around the block a few times and can smell the aroma of bullshit from a good distance...

lb13

If I were to write the true story of my daughter and her daughters no one would buy it as fiction as it's to unbelievable.

a1mamacat wrote:

Bob Juch wrote:

christie1111 wrote:Your daughter's computer is not password protected?

Actually it is but she must not have locked it or powered it off. Facebook uses a cookie instead of asking for a signin each time.

No, it does not automatically, unless you allow it to. You can click off the "remember me" button.

Perhaps your daughter should get in touch with Vandal's publisher and get her fiction printed to be sold, if she needs money that badly.

I think she has a real problem with reality, or perhaps suffers from pathological lying. Or, you suffer from Munchausen Syndrome by Proxy

Rec! with a big side of poutine over here.