WWTBAM Bored

Had a nice long response to a PSM post typed out, and it disappeared!

She musta had second thoughts again.

mrkelley23 wrote:Had a nice long response to a PSM post typed out, and it disappeared!

She musta had second thoughts again.

I am sorry.

The whole thing bothers me, because I don't think that a good teacher should loose his career because of something stupid.

I realized that I probably shouldn't post it on a public BB even though it's the topic of much conversation locally.

You're probably right, but I am bothered by these sorts of stories, too.

No doubt there are plenty of people who need to be purged from my profession, but there are (at least relatively) innocent people being unduly hurt by this phenomenon, as well.

mrkelley23 wrote:You're probably right, but I am bothered by these sorts of stories, too.

No doubt there are plenty of people who need to be purged from my profession, but there are (at least relatively) innocent people being unduly hurt by this phenomenon, as well.

Can they fire teachers for that?

It seems unfair to me.

PlacentiaSoccerMom wrote:

mrkelley23 wrote:You're probably right, but I am bothered by these sorts of stories, too.

No doubt there are plenty of people who need to be purged from my profession, but there are (at least relatively) innocent people being unduly hurt by this phenomenon, as well.

Can they fire teachers for that?

It seems unfair to me.

Ironically, it's one of the easiest ways for an administrator to get rid of a teacher. There's a "moral turpitude" clause in most contracts. They still have to go through due process, but moral turpitude is a pretty easy claim to "prove," especially since most people accused of it are so ashamed that they don't fight it too hard.

Sheer incompetence, on the other hand, hardly ever results in the teacher being fired. As you well know, base on some of the stories you've shared here.

I must be missing something. I need to go find the post of PSM's that this refers to.

christie1111 wrote:I must be missing something. I need to go find the post of PSM's that this refers to.

She deleted it, Christie. My post, which was not necessarily related to anything in hers (you know me ) was about teachers with dirty pics on their computers. That would NOT be me, BTW.

mrkelley23 wrote:

PlacentiaSoccerMom wrote:

mrkelley23 wrote:You're probably right, but I am bothered by these sorts of stories, too.

No doubt there are plenty of people who need to be purged from my profession, but there are (at least relatively) innocent people being unduly hurt by this phenomenon, as well.

Can they fire teachers for that?

It seems unfair to me.

Ironically, it's one of the easiest ways for an administrator to get rid of a teacher. There's a "moral turpitude" clause in most contracts. They still have to go through due process, but moral turpitude is a pretty easy claim to "prove," especially since most people accused of it are so ashamed that they don't fight it too hard.

Sheer incompetence, on the other hand, hardly ever results in the teacher being fired. As you well know, base on some of the stories you've shared here.

I was going to post a response, as well.

Am I missing something, MrK and PSM, or are you arguing that a school teacher should not be fired for downloading pornography on a school computer?

mrkelley23 wrote:

PlacentiaSoccerMom wrote:

mrkelley23 wrote:You're probably right, but I am bothered by these sorts of stories, too.

No doubt there are plenty of people who need to be purged from my profession, but there are (at least relatively) innocent people being unduly hurt by this phenomenon, as well.

Can they fire teachers for that?

It seems unfair to me.

Ironically, it's one of the easiest ways for an administrator to get rid of a teacher. There's a "moral turpitude" clause in most contracts. They still have to go through due process, but moral turpitude is a pretty easy claim to "prove," especially since most people accused of it are so ashamed that they don't fight it too hard.

Sheer incompetence, on the other hand, hardly ever results in the teacher being fired. As you well know, base on some of the stories you've shared here.

Yes, I know.

Maddie has had three bad teachers.

The first, the one that hit her, was gone that year.

The second, who bullied her and a few other kids I know, is no longer teaching GATE, something I found out two nights ago, when the district did their dog and pony show for the parents.

The third, is a really nice lady, but should retire. Emma could possibly encounter her next year, but I am going to make a request that their paths do not cross.

Appa23 wrote:
Am I missing something, MrK and PSM, or are you arguing that a school teacher should not be fired for downloading pornography on a school computer?

We aren't arguing at all.

MrK is the kindest, bravest, warmest, most wonderful human being I've ever known in my life.

PlacentiaSoccerMom wrote:

Appa23 wrote:
Am I missing something, MrK and PSM, or are you arguing that a school teacher should not be fired for downloading pornography on a school computer?

We aren't arguing at all.

MrK is the kindest, bravest, warmest, most wonderful human being I've ever known in my life.

I never said that you were arguing with each other.

I guess ol' Jeff needs to work on being kinder, braver, warmer, and more wonderful.

Appa23 wrote:

mrkelley23 wrote:

PlacentiaSoccerMom wrote: Can they fire teachers for that?

It seems unfair to me.

Ironically, it's one of the easiest ways for an administrator to get rid of a teacher. There's a "moral turpitude" clause in most contracts. They still have to go through due process, but moral turpitude is a pretty easy claim to "prove," especially since most people accused of it are so ashamed that they don't fight it too hard.

Sheer incompetence, on the other hand, hardly ever results in the teacher being fired. As you well know, base on some of the stories you've shared here.

I was going to post a response, as well.

Am I missing something, MrK and PSM, or are you arguing that a school teacher should not be fired for downloading pornography on a school computer?

No. What I did say, in a post that got committed to the ether, is that there are increasing numbers of cases where the lines are not as sharp as they appear to be. I have no problem with idiots who knowingly and purposefully download pornographic pics to a school computer being fired -- and the sooner the better.

But what about if TiV had kept his Roxy Music avatar, and one of my more vindictive bosses decided to call that pornography and fire me based on me downloading naked pictures to a school computer?

What about the unfortunate woman who clicked on a popup inadvertently, and it turned out to be a pornography "bomb?" Her computer was so overwhelmed with porn, viruses, and other malware that she had to call for help to get it cleaned, and the person she called turned her in and got her fired. She was eventually reinstated, because her union rep was able to demonstrate the facts of the case in front of a superior administrator to the one who fired her, but how many more cases like this are there?

Just sayin'...

Almost forgot:

What about the vindictive kids who decide to sabotage a teacher they don't like by secreting porn on his computer, then make an anonymous call about it?

mrkelley23 wrote:Almost forgot:

What about the vindictive kids who decide to sabotage a teacher they don't like by secreting porn on his computer, then make an anonymous call about it?

Is that the educational equivalent of "a vast right wing conspiracy?"

I am sure that there has been a case of a teacher being framed, but I am sure that it is the very rare reason for how porn appeared on the computer.

mrkelley23 wrote:

Appa23 wrote:

mrkelley23 wrote: Ironically, it's one of the easiest ways for an administrator to get rid of a teacher. There's a "moral turpitude" clause in most contracts. They still have to go through due process, but moral turpitude is a pretty easy claim to "prove," especially since most people accused of it are so ashamed that they don't fight it too hard.

Sheer incompetence, on the other hand, hardly ever results in the teacher being fired. As you well know, base on some of the stories you've shared here.

I was going to post a response, as well.

Am I missing something, MrK and PSM, or are you arguing that a school teacher should not be fired for downloading pornography on a school computer?

No. What I did say, in a post that got committed to the ether, is that there are increasing numbers of cases where the lines are not as sharp as they appear to be. I have no problem with idiots who knowingly and purposefully download pornographic pics to a school computer being fired -- and the sooner the better.

But what about if TiV had kept his Roxy Music avatar, and one of my more vindictive bosses decided to call that pornography and fire me based on me downloading naked pictures to a school computer?

What about the unfortunate woman who clicked on a popup inadvertently, and it turned out to be a pornography "bomb?" Her computer was so overwhelmed with porn, viruses, and other malware that she had to call for help to get it cleaned, and the person she called turned her in and got her fired. She was eventually reinstated, because her union rep was able to demonstrate the facts of the case in front of a superior administrator to the one who fired her, but how many more cases like this are there?

Just sayin'...

Now, those are two good examples where the facts show that no porn was "downloaded". 9I do not know what the "Roxy Music" avatar was, but I will guess that it was some scantily-clad woman.)

mrkelley23 wrote:

Appa23 wrote:

mrkelley23 wrote: Ironically, it's one of the easiest ways for an administrator to get rid of a teacher. There's a "moral turpitude" clause in most contracts. They still have to go through due process, but moral turpitude is a pretty easy claim to "prove," especially since most people accused of it are so ashamed that they don't fight it too hard.

Sheer incompetence, on the other hand, hardly ever results in the teacher being fired. As you well know, base on some of the stories you've shared here.

I was going to post a response, as well.

Am I missing something, MrK and PSM, or are you arguing that a school teacher should not be fired for downloading pornography on a school computer?

No. What I did say, in a post that got committed to the ether, is that there are increasing numbers of cases where the lines are not as sharp as they appear to be. I have no problem with idiots who knowingly and purposefully download pornographic pics to a school computer being fired -- and the sooner the better.

But what about if TiV had kept his Roxy Music avatar, and one of my more vindictive bosses decided to call that pornography and fire me based on me downloading naked pictures to a school computer?

What about the unfortunate woman who clicked on a popup inadvertently, and it turned out to be a pornography "bomb?" Her computer was so overwhelmed with porn, viruses, and other malware that she had to call for help to get it cleaned, and the person she called turned her in and got her fired. She was eventually reinstated, because her union rep was able to demonstrate the facts of the case in front of a superior administrator to the one who fired her, but how many more cases like this are there?

Just sayin'...

BTW, I am guessing that such actions make you much more hyper-vigilant about installing pop-up blockers, security, and being careful about what you do on the school computer.

All part of the "Zero Tolerence" climate of modern public education.

mrkelley23 wrote:Almost forgot:

What about the vindictive kids who decide to sabotage a teacher they don't like by secreting porn on his computer, then make an anonymous call about it?

Also, last year parents were at school after hours working on the 8th grade party. Some of the teachers left their computers on and some parents went online. (I don't know why...) The parents could have been downloading stuff as well.

I do know that the district blocks stuff on all of their computers. For instance, our librarian can't check her AOL mail, though gmail can be checked.

mrkelley23 wrote:Almost forgot:

What about the vindictive kids who decide to sabotage a teacher they don't like by secreting porn on his computer, then make an anonymous call about it?

Kids are vindictive.

I know that some high school kids got mad at their teacher last year, or the year before. They created a My Space page for the teacher and Photoshopped her head onto a naked body and talked about the stuff she liked to do. They posted the teacher's phone number on the site and she got some interesting phone calls.

Appa,

The term "downloaded" is still a term of art, rather than law. When my computer loads this message board, it must necessarily download the images which compose each person's avatar. Just because it does not save those images to its hard drive does not make it any less downloaded.

If you don't believe that kids are vindictive, you might be interested in a site called "ratemyteacher.com." I"m not sure how many people you can browse, but between it and MySpace, I have learned to just ignore most of what goes on, if only for my own ego.

You asked about installing popup blockers, etc on my school computer. I have done so, but by doing so, I am also technically breaking the rules set up for our computer use. I am not supposed to install anything that has not been approved in advance by our local PTB. Many teachers have neither the knowledge nor the wherewithal to install good security software beyond what the school offers.

The Roxy Music avatar was more than scantily clad, it was bare-breasted. danielh has an avatar of the statue of David, I think it is. Do you remember the parents who got aroused (and not in a good way) last year because their art teacher took the kiddies to an art museum which featured such statues.

In short, it's not paranoia if they really are out to get you.

mrkelley23 wrote:The Roxy Music avatar was more than scantily clad, it was bare-breasted.

Not quite. Here's a mainstream site with that Roxy Music album cover.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Country_Life_%28album%29
Anyone who thinks Wikipedia is porn has serious issues. But I'm sure a lot of people fall into that category.

There was a piece on This American Life last week (yeah, all you unliberal-radio listeners can all avert your heads) about a 9-year-girl, one of 5 daughters of a Muslim couple where the mother is American born & bred & the father is not, where after 9/11 a teacher brought in a little picture book so the kids could "learn about Muslims"; what they learned is "Muslims are killers". Then, at Christmas, the teacher had some more required reading, to the effect that "anyone who is not a Christian is going to burn in hell".

When this behavior was brought to the attention of the school authorities, they said "we'll do something about it" but did not. They did tell the kid she had to change to a different class, even though all her friends were in the bad-teacher's class. The federal authorities very very much later got the school authorities to tell the teacher to change behavior. Teacher wasn't fired, just told "we're watching you now".

By that time the kid, who had been taunted daily & lost all her friends, was in a different school in a different part of the state (New York or New Jersey), the father, who wanted to go back to the West Bank where he grew up because "everyone is Muslim there even though we had it hard" had walked out & is living with a relative in a different state (not the West Bank yet), & the mother has to work 3 jobs to make ends meet, so rarely even gets to see her kids.

It wasn't all the teacher's doing, as the family had its car vandalized even before the school stuff started, but the teacher sure lit a fire under it.

TheConfessor wrote:

mrkelley23 wrote:The Roxy Music avatar was more than scantily clad, it was bare-breasted.

Not quite. Here's a mainstream site with that Roxy Music album cover.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Country_Life_%28album%29
Anyone who thinks Wikipedia is porn has serious issues. But I'm sure a lot of people fall into that category.

I know people who wanted to get all of the Halloween picture books banned from the school library.