Four Corners

[cindy.wellman]

It looks like we might need to make a road trip to re-take some photos.

http://www.koat.com/news/19232758/detail.html

[peacock2121]

I am a bad person. I think this is very funny.

[MarleysGh0st]

Is this article serious? 2.5 miles???

I've said before that it would be a wicked good joke if they had deliberately offset the marker just a bit, so all those tourists would oooh and aaah over the wrong spot, but I didn't think there could be a real mistake that big!

[NellyLunatic1980]

I've never seen the Four Corners, but I would like to.

[mntetn]

I wonder what that big sign in the background says.

When I was there for the first time in 1962, there was a sign that said (in effect) Big Hotel Coming Soon. A few years later I visited it again. It hadn't happened. Probably still hasn't.

[MarleysGh0st]

I wonder what that big sign in the background says.

When I was there for the first time in 1962, there was a sign that said (in effect) Big Hotel Coming Soon. A few years later I visited it again. It hadn't happened. Probably still hasn't.

There was no hotel when I was there in '95; just the marker with a circle of souvenir stands around it.

[Spock]

I wonder what that big sign in the background says.

When I was there for the first time in 1962, there was a sign that said (in effect) Big Hotel Coming Soon. A few years later I visited it again. It hadn't happened. Probably still hasn't.

There was no hotel when I was there in '95; just the marker with a circle of souvenir stands around it.

Same in 2006-

Plus given my vast geographic knowledge, I realized that it was off by 2.5237 miles (to be exact) and so I took pics of that spot instead while laughing at the joke.

The kids and wife wanted to stop at the marker, but I was a purist and said no way, tears and bitching be damned.

[nitrah55]

Next thing you know, they'll be telling us the Statue of Liberty is in New Jersey.

Oh, wait a minute....

[peacock2121]

Next thing you know, they'll be telling us the Statue of Liberty is in New Jersey.

Oh, wait a minute....

Or that the equator really wasn't at the spot I have in the photograph in Kenya.

[andrewjackson]

I think we had a discussion about this last fall.

I'll be interested to see if the "correct" spot is where it should have been based on the definition of the states or where it should be based on the "on the ground" state lines.

Those are often not the same things.

[Sisyphean Fan]

I wonder what that big sign in the background says.

When I was there for the first time in 1962, there was a sign that said (in effect) Big Hotel Coming Soon. A few years later I visited it again. It hadn't happened. Probably still hasn't.

I was in South Dakota in 1989 and I'm still waiting for the Crazy Horse monument to look like something more than a big hunk of mountain.

Of course, I'm still waiting for History of the World, Part 2 and The Further Adventures of Talon (which The Sword and the Sorcerer promised me around 1982).

[andrewjackson]

As I suspected. When you go to the Four Corners Monument you can be in four states at the same time.

The Monument is at the point where the four states, in fact, meet. It is not where the junction should have been but once it was surveyed that became the de facto border.

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=6215653

However, because of the difficult terrain, the current spot recognized as the Four Corners was chosen. It's nearly 2 and a half miles west from the actual spot.

All four states, and the U.S. Congress, recognized the mistake but decided to allow the current boundary lines to be drawn. That means Utah lost some land, while Colorado gained some.

"What is legal is political, not scientific," Case said. "And it doesn't matter if you make a mistake or not."

Since all the states and the U.S. Congress agreed on the boundaries, it is now the official boundary, which means all those families who take their pictures at the monument are doing so in four states and don't have to climb that plateau to be in the historical spot.

"Yes. Legally, it counts," Case assured.

....

"If all the states involved and the U.S. Congress get together and say the current recognized Four Corners is the actual Four Corners, then that's that." Case said. "And since they all did agree on it, the current location of the Four Corners National Monument is the correct location."

[frogman042]

Shades of Hitchcock's Mr. & Mrs. Smith!

[MarleysGh0st]

"What is legal is political, not scientific," Case said. "And it doesn't matter if you make a mistake or not."

Harrumph!

Does this mean Congress can pass a law that pi = 3?

[mntetn]

I was in South Dakota in 1989 and I'm still waiting for the Crazy Horse monument to look like something more than a big hunk of mountain.

It's gotten quite a bit better since then. We were there in '05.

[andrewjackson]

"What is legal is political, not scientific," Case said. "And it doesn't matter if you make a mistake or not."

Harrumph!

Does this mean Congress can pass a law that pi = 3?

Sure they can. Why wouldn't they be able to? It's just a law. Laws don't change physical facts but they define legal relationships. If Congress says a piece of land is in Colorado, it is in Colorado even if it shouldn't be by the definition of Colorado.

The "pi = 3" story was the Indiana legislature, BTW, and they never even considered making pi = 3. The proposed bill had a lot of complicated math but the approximation would have made pi = 3.2 The whole point was to get a rational number when calculating the volume of logs. It didn't matter what the actual volume of the log would be, what mattered was that everyone agreed on the volume of the log.

[Jeemie]

As I suspected. When you go to the Four Corners Monument you can be in four states at the same time.

The Monument is at the point where the four states, in fact, meet. It is not where the junction should have been but once it was surveyed that became the de facto border.

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=6215653

However, because of the difficult terrain, the current spot recognized as the Four Corners was chosen. It's nearly 2 and a half miles west from the actual spot.

All four states, and the U.S. Congress, recognized the mistake but decided to allow the current boundary lines to be drawn. That means Utah lost some land, while Colorado gained some.

"What is legal is political, not scientific," Case said. "And it doesn't matter if you make a mistake or not."

Since all the states and the U.S. Congress agreed on the boundaries, it is now the official boundary, which means all those families who take their pictures at the monument are doing so in four states and don't have to climb that plateau to be in the historical spot.

"Yes. Legally, it counts," Case assured.

....

"If all the states involved and the U.S. Congress get together and say the current recognized Four Corners is the actual Four Corners, then that's that." Case said. "And since they all did agree on it, the current location of the Four Corners National Monument is the correct location."

I just had a vision of a bunch of fed and state Congresspeople snickering at all the smart-ass know-it-alls who trudge up the plateau so they can say they were at the "real" Four Corners....saying "Ha Ha...fooled you!"

[Jeemie]

"What is legal is political, not scientific," Case said. "And it doesn't matter if you make a mistake or not."

Harrumph!

Does this mean Congress can pass a law that pi = 3?

Sure they can. Why wouldn't they be able to? It's just a law. Laws don't change physical facts but they define legal relationships. If Congress says a piece of land is in Colorado, it is in Colorado even if it shouldn't be by the definition of Colorado.

The "pi = 3" story was the Indiana legislature, BTW, and they never even considered making pi = 3. The proposed bill had a lot of complicated math but the approximation would have made pi = 3.2 The whole point was to get a rational number when calculating the volume of logs. It didn't matter what the actual volume of the log would be, what mattered was that everyone agreed on the volume of the log.

Besides, we don't need such a law.

We already have one...from God.

The Bible says pi = 3.

That ought to settle it.

[earendel]

Harrumph!

Does this mean Congress can pass a law that pi = 3?

Sure they can. Why wouldn't they be able to? It's just a law. Laws don't change physical facts but they define legal relationships. If Congress says a piece of land is in Colorado, it is in Colorado even if it shouldn't be by the definition of Colorado.

The "pi = 3" story was the Indiana legislature, BTW, and they never even considered making pi = 3. The proposed bill had a lot of complicated math but the approximation would have made pi = 3.2 The whole point was to get a rational number when calculating the volume of logs. It didn't matter what the actual volume of the log would be, what mattered was that everyone agreed on the volume of the log.

Besides, we don't need such a law.

We already have one...from God.

The Bible says pi = 3.

That ought to settle it.

Snopes has a debunking of an urban legend about the Alabama state legislature's attempt to define pi according to the Bible, and mentions a citation from Heinlein's Stranger in a Strange Land about a bill that came before the Tennessee state legislature.

[Evil Squirrel]

Woohoo! There is now more of Colorado for me to explore!!!!!

2 extra miles of wonderful scritches!!!!!

[earendel]

Woohoo! There is now more of Colorado for me to explore!!!!!

2 extra miles of wonderful scritches!!!!!

Maybe that restraining order doesn't apply to those two extra miles.

[ulysses5019]

There is a Ceremonial South Pole area near the geographic south pole. People pose with the pole and the surrounding flags. The problem is that the polar sheet has the habit of drifting about.
And don't get any of this confused with the South Magnetic Pole.

[MarleysGh0st]

There is a Ceremonial South Pole area near the geographic south pole. People pose with the pole and the surrounding flags. The problem is that the polar sheet has the habit of drifting about.
And don't get any of this confused with the South Magnetic Pole.

Found it.

[andrewjackson]

Woohoo! There is now more of Colorado for me to explore!!!!!

2 extra miles of wonderful scritches!!!!!

Incorrect. Nothing about this has changed the boundary of Colorado. It was surveyed incorrectly in 1878 and hasn't changed since.

Congress originally said that the border of Colorado should be at 109 degrees West. It was surveyed and marked close to but not exactly on that line of longitude. However, once it was surveyed and marked that became the official border of Colorado. It remains the official border of Colorado. The Monument is at the point where the states of Colorado, Utah, New Mexico, and Arizona now officially meet.

[SportsFan68]

Woohoo! There is now more of Colorado for me to explore!!!!!

2 extra miles of wonderful scritches!!!!!

Good grief!

Colorado is still the same area. If they moved the monument to the exact coordinates, there would be less Colorado. The chances of that happening are somewhat less than zilch at the moment in these budget conscious times. Even if they did move it they would have the same thing, and no state would see any increase in benefit.

So no additional scritches, although to quote the Mad Hatter or the March Hare, how can you have more when you haven't had any?