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silverscreenselect wrote:

Spoiler

And is it just me or does it seem like the original Lostaways are the only group of people who have ever arrived on the island who haven't been armed to the teeth from minute one?

Spoiler

Well, there was Locke with his suitcase full of combat knives!

Ratings for Lost are down somewhat from last year, although nowhere near as bad as Heroes. Lost is in a very tough time slot right now. Fox's Lie to Me has finished ahead of Lost every week, despite losing a good bit from its American Idol leadin. Lost finished ahead of CBS Criminal Minds but only because the usually dominant Minds broadcast a repeat.

I'm somewhat surprised by Lie to Me. It's a gimmick show, but a good gimmick. A group of top investigators have the ability to read whether people are lying to them or not, based on verbal patterns, body language, and other psychological tells. Often, the show will illustrate the point by having star Tim Roth explain that a particular gesture indicates lying and then following it up immediately by showing a clip of a famous person (Bill Clinton, Richard Nixon, etc.) using the exact same gesture.

Once the team determines that a person is lying, the rest of the show is a fairly routine cops and robbers procedural in which they try to determine why the person is lying (which usually has something to do with the commission of a crime that needs to be solved). To make this last sixty minutes, they work on two cases per episode(much as CSI has done).

While the show's premise is interesting, I'm curious how they will find enough interesting material to keep it going for an entire season.

silverscreenselect wrote: While the show's premise is interesting, I'm curious how they will find enough interesting material to keep it going for an entire season.

Probably the same thing the Lawns do -- read the headlines.

We've been enjoying Lie To Me, and I find it pretty durned fascinating.

Tall son is getting nervous. It seems.

tanstaafl2 wrote:

Spoiler

And it was equally clear to me right away that the Frenchies were Danielle and company. But are the doing all this for fun's sake? It wasn't as those Danielle appeared to recognize Jin 17 years (or how ever long it was) later. Of course back then they probably hadn't made up this story line!

Spoiler

Towards the end of the show, Ben told Sun that he had proof that Jin was still alive on the island, and it may have something to do with the time Jin spent with the Frenchies (perhaps a photo of him with Danielle that Ben got hold of years later).

I was interested in "Lie", because I've known people who claim to be "body language" readers; to a person they are insufferable boors, are sure they are always always right about their "readings", & are frequently wrong. Often, they try to set a situation up by telling a subject "someone who is happy always picks their nose" or some such nonsense; then, if the subject picks their nose, they know the subject is at least trying to "appear happy".

Of course, giving a prompt & then seeing if its followed, as well as being very bad science, would be anathemic to criminal investigations (except when a wily investigator is intentionally setting someone up).


You could probably find better body language readers among professional poker players who play in "real life" (i.e. the people they're playing against are all in the same room at the same time as they are, as opposed to an on-line game, even one that uses Skype to get some kind of visual of the opponent(s)) & who win a lot. When interviewed, they always claim they base a lot of their playing on their opponents' "tells". The psychology professor "body language reader" & the "my life/income depends on this" "body language reader" rarely cross paths, & are rarely the same person.

I figured that making the main character an insufferable boor wouldn't last very long on TV crime drama (its often the case on comedies, one reason I don't find most comedies very funny). the Jaynes character on "The Mentalist" (who reads body language as well as pays very close attention to teeny details) is played as more of a boor than the character on "Lie"; "Mentalist" is a hit, I'd say, largely through Simon Baker managing to exude a lot of charm mixed in with the boorishness. Baker was an equally good actor on his previous network show, playing a (mostly recovering) cocaine addict with almost no affect, but who still made watchers want to care about him.

The boorishness aspect on "Lie" is taken care of by the main character being someone who
has memorized all his "body language reading" based on detailed studies he's made, having almost no natural talent at it. Of course, they've also thrown in a very non-boorish "natural" that the lead character is training to know the school-learning aspects too.

silverscreenselect wrote:

tanstaafl2 wrote:

Spoiler

And it was equally clear to me right away that the Frenchies were Danielle and company. But are the doing all this for fun's sake? It wasn't as those Danielle appeared to recognize Jin 17 years (or how ever long it was) later. Of course back then they probably hadn't made up this story line!

Spoiler

Towards the end of the show, Ben told Sun that he had proof that Jin was still alive on the island, and it may have something to do with the time Jin spent with the Frenchies (perhaps a photo of him with Danielle that Ben got hold of years later).

Spoiler

Good point, although none of the people in the group who returned other than Ben know that the Losties left behind are currently in time travel hell (Other than Locke of course and he's dead. For the moment anyway). And photos these days are pretty easy to fake.

And just how long has it been since the freighter blew up anyway? As far as I can see Jin had no water (I suppose he could have been drinking rain water from the storm) and I have no idea how long it has been that they have been flitting about in time. I suppose not all that long although there sure has been a lot of hiking going on so at least a day or so in "real" time. In the tropics and in the sun constantly he wouldn't realistically last more than a day or two at most. Not that realism is always a key factor in this show...

silverscreenselect wrote:

tanstaafl2 wrote:

Spoiler

And it was equally clear to me right away that the Frenchies were Danielle and company. But are the doing all this for fun's sake? It wasn't as those Danielle appeared to recognize Jin 17 years (or how ever long it was) later. Of course back then they probably hadn't made up this story line!

Spoiler

Towards the end of the show, Ben told Sun that he had proof that Jin was still alive on the island, and it may have something to do with the time Jin spent with the Frenchies (perhaps a photo of him with Danielle that Ben got hold of years later).

Spoiler

It seems that it is the timeline of the person travelling through time that always takes precedence as far as who recognizes who, and the non-time traveller retains no memory of the encounter when he meets the time traveller again later in normal life. So Daniel didn't recognize Desmond upon meeting him on the island in 2004, even though he had encountered time travelling Desmond in 1996; at the same time, Desmond didn't recognize Daniel either when they met on the island, even though hatch-dwelling Desmond had encountered time-travelling Daniel several years earlier; and Ethan (maybe) didn't recognize Locke in the first season even though he had met time travelling Locke before. The older Danielle has no memory of Jin, because from Jin the soon-to-be time traveller's standpoint, they haven't met yet. Possibly the same for Locke seeming to have no memory of meeting Richard as a child.

It would be interesting if Ben had a photo of Jin and the younger Danielle together and had shown it to the older Danielle. I suppose she still wouldn't be able to remember meeting Jin.

Also am I right that every even-numbered flash always brings them back to the present time, i.e. the day the freighter blew up or following day or two? That would mean the outrigger boat people from last night arrived at that time (though they could be time travellers themselves, I guess). I wonder what the range of possible eras for the odd-numbered flashes is. Maybe limited by whenever the ship's tiller mechanism under the Orchid station was first established?

smilergrogan wrote:

silverscreenselect wrote:

tanstaafl2 wrote:

Spoiler

And it was equally clear to me right away that the Frenchies were Danielle and company. But are the doing all this for fun's sake? It wasn't as those Danielle appeared to recognize Jin 17 years (or how ever long it was) later. Of course back then they probably hadn't made up this story line!

Spoiler

Towards the end of the show, Ben told Sun that he had proof that Jin was still alive on the island, and it may have something to do with the time Jin spent with the Frenchies (perhaps a photo of him with Danielle that Ben got hold of years later).

Spoiler

It seems that it is the timeline of the person travelling through time that always takes precedence as far as who recognizes who, and the non-time traveller retains no memory of the encounter when he meets the time traveller again later in normal life. So Daniel didn't recognize Desmond upon meeting him on the island in 2004, even though he had encountered time travelling Desmond in 1996; at the same time, Desmond didn't recognize Daniel either when they met on the island, even though hatch-dwelling Desmond had encountered time-travelling Daniel several years earlier; and Ethan (maybe) didn't recognize Locke in the first season even though he had met time travelling Locke before. The older Danielle has no memory of Jin, because from Jin the soon-to-be time traveller's standpoint, they haven't met yet. Possibly the same for Locke seeming to have no memory of meeting Richard as a child.

It would be interesting if Ben had a photo of Jin and the younger Danielle together and had shown it to the older Danielle. I suppose she still wouldn't be able to remember meeting Jin.

Also am I right that every even-numbered flash always brings them back to the present time, i.e. the day the freighter blew up or following day or two? That would mean the outrigger boat people from last night arrived at that time (though they could be time travellers themselves, I guess). I wonder what the range of possible eras for the odd-numbered flashes is. Maybe limited by whenever the ship's tiller mechanism under the Orchid station was first established?

Spoiler

I see one problem with your theory regarding memory and time-travel. Richard wasn't time-traveling when he tested Locke as a child. He went because Locke had told him to find him. Richard clearly remembered meeting the adult Locke in the 50s.

TheCalvinator24 wrote:

smilergrogan wrote:

silverscreenselect wrote:

Spoiler

Towards the end of the show, Ben told Sun that he had proof that Jin was still alive on the island, and it may have something to do with the time Jin spent with the Frenchies (perhaps a photo of him with Danielle that Ben got hold of years later).

Spoiler

It seems that it is the timeline of the person travelling through time that always takes precedence as far as who recognizes who, and the non-time traveller retains no memory of the encounter when he meets the time traveller again later in normal life. So Daniel didn't recognize Desmond upon meeting him on the island in 2004, even though he had encountered time travelling Desmond in 1996; at the same time, Desmond didn't recognize Daniel either when they met on the island, even though hatch-dwelling Desmond had encountered time-travelling Daniel several years earlier; and Ethan (maybe) didn't recognize Locke in the first season even though he had met time travelling Locke before. The older Danielle has no memory of Jin, because from Jin the soon-to-be time traveller's standpoint, they haven't met yet. Possibly the same for Locke seeming to have no memory of meeting Richard as a child.

It would be interesting if Ben had a photo of Jin and the younger Danielle together and had shown it to the older Danielle. I suppose she still wouldn't be able to remember meeting Jin.

Also am I right that every even-numbered flash always brings them back to the present time, i.e. the day the freighter blew up or following day or two? That would mean the outrigger boat people from last night arrived at that time (though they could be time travellers themselves, I guess). I wonder what the range of possible eras for the odd-numbered flashes is. Maybe limited by whenever the ship's tiller mechanism under the Orchid station was first established?

Spoiler

I see one problem with your theory regarding memory and time-travel. Richard wasn't time-traveling when he tested Locke as a child. He went because Locke had told him to find him. Richard clearly remembered meeting the adult Locke in the 50s.

Spoiler

Richard seems to be a rather unique occupant of the island so those "rules", should they in fact exist, don't seem to apply to him. He is rather like the civil service bureaucracy, unchanging (in more ways than one) no matter who is in charge.

Or may be that the ones that remember are the ones convenient for the writers to have remember to service a particular plot point.

I missed the explanation:

Spoiler

Why did Claire's mom happen to be in LA and talking to Ben's lawyer, since she didn't know anything about Aaron?

smilergrogan wrote:

Spoiler

Also am I right that every even-numbered flash always brings them back to the present time, i.e. the day the freighter blew up or following day or two? That would mean the outrigger boat people from last night arrived at that time (though they could be time travellers themselves, I guess). I wonder what the range of possible eras for the odd-numbered flashes is. Maybe limited by whenever the ship's tiller mechanism under the Orchid station was first established?

Spoiler

I don't think that is correct. After the camp with Richard in the 1950's disappeared they flashed forward to the time of the light from the hatch right? Then they flashed forward again to the outriggers (camp there but abandoned). The time frame is uncertain here. Is it shortly after the freighter blew up or long after (Those beer cans looked like they had been there awhile!). Then they flashed yet again, this time back to the time when Daniele arrived. If there is a rhyme or reason to the flashes it doesn't seem clear to me yet.

MarleysGh0st wrote:I missed the explanation:

Spoiler

Why did Claire's mom happen to be in LA and talking to Ben's lawyer, since she didn't know anything about Aaron?

Spoiler

She was in LA to receive the settlement check from the plane crash (as Claire's presumed next of kin). Apparently, the attorney was representing her and some of the other relatives of other victims.

Also here is the dialogue of the French party if anyone is interested. It wasn't translated in CC so if you didn't know French you were SOL. Not that it was earth shattering, or even island shattering, in nature.


ROBERT: Mais je t'ai dit, on aurait dû jamais suivre ces maudits chiffres ! (I told you so! We never should have followed those damn numbers!)
MONTAND: Mais c'est pas ma faute, Robert. Brennan devait tenir le sonar! (It's not my fault, Robert. Brennan was in charge of the sonar!)
BRENNAN: Mais je le faisais, Montand! Je vous l'ai déja dit, les instruments ont mal fonctionné! (I was watching, Montand! I told you already, the instruments malfunctioned!)
ROUSSEAU: Un homme à la mer! (Man overboard!)
(Man) Quoi? (What?)
Mais je pensais qu'on était tous là! (I thought we were all there!)
On est tous là ! Il est pas des nôtres. Alors qui est-ce? (We ARE all here! He's not one of us. So who is it?)
(Shouting in French)
Pagaie! Pagayez! Allez (Paddle! Paddle! Come on!)
"pointez la lampe de poche sur lui" (focus the light on him) "il faut tenir la lampe torche" (We have to hold the light)
"Brennan, aidez à pagayer" (brennan, help paddling)
"Allez dépêchez-vous ! Nous dérivons avec le courant" (come on! hurry up! we are moving with the stream)
"Non, y'a que lui ! Pas de bateau, rien" (no.. There's only him! no boat! nothing!)
"Les vagues vont nous amener jusque sur la côte" (the waves will bring us to the coast)
"le vent ( ??) par ici" (the wind ( ??) over here)
"Oh nom de dieu Brennan ! Ta gueule !" (for godsake brennan! shut up!)
"allez, tirez-le dans le radeau" (come on, bring him in the raft) "Aide moi" (help me) "Il est lourd !" (he’s heavy)
"Tiens, il respire encore" (He's still breathing)
(speaking in French continues)


AUTOMATED VOICE OVER RADIO: 4... 8...
MONTAND: Robert... Regarde, le signal vient de l’ile. (look, the signal comes from the island)
ROBERT: Tu peux déterminer la source ? (can you find the source ?)
AUTOMATED VOICE OVER RADIO: 15... 16...
MONTAND: Bien sûr que oui. Regarde. (yes of course, look !)
ROBERT: Tu crois qu'l'île est habitée ? (do you think the island's inhabited ?)
(both speaking french)
ROUSSEAU: Ça va ? Comment tu te sens ? (how are you ? how are you feeling ?)
JIN: No understand.
ROUSSEAU: (French accent) You speak English?
JIN: (Panting) Little.
ROUSSEAU: Are you okay?
JIN: Yes.
ROUSSEAU: How did you get here?
JIN: Boat.
Robert surement : Qui est-ce? (who is he ?)
Montand : On s’en fout qui c'est. Qu’est ce qu’il fait ici ? (I don’t care who he is. What is he doing here ?)
ROUSSEAU: Il dit qu’il est venu en bateau. (he said he came by boat)
ROBERT: (French accent) What boat?
JIN: It's gone. Sink.
ROUSSEAU: It must've been caught in the same storm as ours.
MONTAND: Who are you? How long you in the water?
JIN: I don't know.
MONTAND: How do you not know how you wound up in the middle of the ocean, hein ?
ROUSSEAU: Montand ! Laisse-le, il est en état de choc. On a de l’eau à lui donner ? (leave him alone, he is shook up, do we have water for him ?)
Robert : Ouais. (yeah) (comes back with the water) Tiens. (Here)
ROUSSEAU: Merci, Robert. (thank you Robert)
JIN: (Exhales deeply) Thank you.
ROUSSEAU: What is your name?
JIN: Kwon Jin-su. Jin.
ROUSSEAU: Hello, Jin. I'm Danielle. Danielle Rousseau.

silverscreenselect wrote:

MarleysGh0st wrote:I missed the explanation:

Spoiler

Why did Claire's mom happen to be in LA and talking to Ben's lawyer, since she didn't know anything about Aaron?

Spoiler

She was in LA to receive the settlement check from the plane crash (as Claire's presumed next of kin). Apparently, the attorney was representing her and some of the other relatives of other victims.

Spoiler

Oceanic couldn't just mail the check to Australia? I thought it was only the Nigerians who have such trouble with international fund transfers!

MarleysGh0st wrote:

silverscreenselect wrote:

MarleysGh0st wrote:I missed the explanation:

Spoiler

Why did Claire's mom happen to be in LA and talking to Ben's lawyer, since she didn't know anything about Aaron?

Spoiler

She was in LA to receive the settlement check from the plane crash (as Claire's presumed next of kin). Apparently, the attorney was representing her and some of the other relatives of other victims.

Spoiler

Oceanic couldn't just mail the check to Australia? I thought it was only the Nigerians who have such trouble with international fund transfers!

Spoiler

A wee bit less TV drama if they do something logical like that! Maybe they cut the check for her lawyer who takes his cut before passing on what little is left to her...

tanstaafl2 wrote:

smilergrogan wrote:

Spoiler

Also am I right that every even-numbered flash always brings them back to the present time, i.e. the day the freighter blew up or following day or two? That would mean the outrigger boat people from last night arrived at that time (though they could be time travellers themselves, I guess). I wonder what the range of possible eras for the odd-numbered flashes is. Maybe limited by whenever the ship's tiller mechanism under the Orchid station was first established?

Spoiler

I don't think that is correct. After the camp with Richard in the 1950's disappeared they flashed forward to the time of the light from the hatch right? Then they flashed forward again to the outriggers (camp there but abandoned). The time frame is uncertain here. Is it shortly after the freighter blew up or long after (Those beer cans looked like they had been there awhile!). Then they flashed yet again, this time back to the time when Daniele arrived. If there is a rhyme or reason to the flashes it doesn't seem clear to me yet.

Spoiler

You're right - they went from 1954 to two months before the freighter blew up in one flash. The flashes do seem to favor important island events - H-bomb test, Nigerian plane arrives, Aaron's birth, Frenchies arrive. Probably there will be one going back to the Black Rock's arrival (I am guessing that will also be Richard's arrival), if that far back is allowed.

smilergrogan wrote:

tanstaafl2 wrote:

smilergrogan wrote:

Spoiler

Also am I right that every even-numbered flash always brings them back to the present time, i.e. the day the freighter blew up or following day or two? That would mean the outrigger boat people from last night arrived at that time (though they could be time travellers themselves, I guess). I wonder what the range of possible eras for the odd-numbered flashes is. Maybe limited by whenever the ship's tiller mechanism under the Orchid station was first established?

Spoiler

I don't think that is correct. After the camp with Richard in the 1950's disappeared they flashed forward to the time of the light from the hatch right? Then they flashed forward again to the outriggers (camp there but abandoned). The time frame is uncertain here. Is it shortly after the freighter blew up or long after (Those beer cans looked like they had been there awhile!). Then they flashed yet again, this time back to the time when Daniele arrived. If there is a rhyme or reason to the flashes it doesn't seem clear to me yet.

Spoiler

You're right - they went from 1954 to two months before the freighter blew up in one flash. The flashes do seem to favor important island events - H-bomb test, Nigerian plane arrives, Aaron's birth, Frenchies arrive. Probably there will be one going back to the Black Rock's arrival (I am guessing that will also be Richard's arrival), if that far back is allowed.

Spoiler

How about the arrival of the people who built the statue of a four-toed foot? Or are they just going to completely ignore that and hope we forget about it as well?

Although it would be neat if some time we saw Richard take his shoe off and show that he only had four toes on his foot.

silverscreenselect wrote:

tanstaafl2 wrote:

Spoiler

And it was equally clear to me right away that the Frenchies were Danielle and company. But are the doing all this for fun's sake? It wasn't as those Danielle appeared to recognize Jin 17 years (or how ever long it was) later. Of course back then they probably hadn't made up this story line!

Spoiler

Towards the end of the show, Ben told Sun that he had proof that Jin was still alive on the island, and it may have something to do with the time Jin spent with the Frenchies (perhaps a photo of him with Danielle that Ben got hold of years later).

Spoiler

Umm....did I miss this?

The last I saw Sun she was still in her car with a gun. Did I miss a scene somewhere?

silverscreenselect wrote:

Spoiler

How about the arrival of the people who built the statue of a four-toed foot? Or are they just going to completely ignore that and hope we forget about it as well?

Although it would be neat if some time we saw Richard take his shoe off and show that he only had four toes on his foot.

Spoiler

Would be curious to see that explained but it may be one of the many details that never quite gets addressed. Theories on Lostpedia abound.

The theory that it represents some great past civilization that has since collapsed has always appealed to me but who knows with this show. Could just be thatthe producers are messing with us.

silverscreenselect wrote:

smilergrogan wrote:

tanstaafl2 wrote:

Spoiler

I don't think that is correct. After the camp with Richard in the 1950's disappeared they flashed forward to the time of the light from the hatch right? Then they flashed forward again to the outriggers (camp there but abandoned). The time frame is uncertain here. Is it shortly after the freighter blew up or long after (Those beer cans looked like they had been there awhile!). Then they flashed yet again, this time back to the time when Daniele arrived. If there is a rhyme or reason to the flashes it doesn't seem clear to me yet.

Spoiler

You're right - they went from 1954 to two months before the freighter blew up in one flash. The flashes do seem to favor important island events - H-bomb test, Nigerian plane arrives, Aaron's birth, Frenchies arrive. Probably there will be one going back to the Black Rock's arrival (I am guessing that will also be Richard's arrival), if that far back is allowed.

Spoiler

How about the arrival of the people who built the statue of a four-toed foot? Or are they just going to completely ignore that and hope we forget about it as well?

Although it would be neat if some time we saw Richard take his shoe off and show that he only had four toes on his foot.

In the Lost podcast, Cuse & Lindelof have said that we will see the 4-toed statue again. They implied that we would see it from before it was destroyed.

clem21 wrote:

silverscreenselect wrote:

tanstaafl2 wrote:

Spoiler

And it was equally clear to me right away that the Frenchies were Danielle and company. But are the doing all this for fun's sake? It wasn't as those Danielle appeared to recognize Jin 17 years (or how ever long it was) later. Of course back then they probably hadn't made up this story line!

Spoiler

Towards the end of the show, Ben told Sun that he had proof that Jin was still alive on the island, and it may have something to do with the time Jin spent with the Frenchies (perhaps a photo of him with Danielle that Ben got hold of years later).

Spoiler

Umm....did I miss this?

The last I saw Sun she was still in her car with a gun. Did I miss a scene somewhere?

Spoiler

It was in the preview of next week's episode.