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Well, Sh*t Happens....
Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 9:18 am
by Governor Blago
As you may have seen, I was quite unfairly and unceremoniously kicked out of my job yesterday. I guess impassioned speeches only work if people don't already think you're a weasel. I'll have a parting gift for the people of the great state of Illinois as soon as my fiber suppliment kicks in...
But in the meantime, at least I didn't stay unemployed for long. I just got hired by this guy who has the same barber I do, some pointy haired dude named _TPTB_. I'll be judging auditioners for some game show I hear you all like coming this Spring. The most important piece of audition advice I can give is that while I will take a check, I prefer cash under the table...
See ya all there....
Re: Well, Sh*t Happens....
Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 9:21 am
by MarleysGh0st
At least you make it clear what you're looking for!
Re: Well, Sh*t Happens....
Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 9:40 am
by Flybrick
Thread derail question:
Any legal eagles understand why/how he was impeached and convicted when he, to my knowledge, has not even been indicted?
I'm not shedding any tears over the guy, but it does seem premature. The US attorney announces his charges with much fanfare, then cannot indict within 30 days, asking for an extension. So as of yesterday, Blago wasn't under indictment.
What gives on the laws for Illinois impeachment?
Re: Well, Sh*t Happens....
Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 9:55 am
by andrewjackson
Flybrick wrote:Thread derail question:
Any legal eagles understand why/how he was impeached and convicted when he, to my knowledge, has not even been indicted?
I'm not shedding any tears over the guy, but it does seem premature. The US attorney announces his charges with much fanfare, then cannot indict within 30 days, asking for an extension. So as of yesterday, Blago wasn't under indictment.
What gives on the laws for Illinois impeachment?
You don't have to be indicted to be impeached.
There are no laws on impeachment as far as I can tell. The Illinois Constitution has the requirements:
SECTION 14. IMPEACHMENT
The House of Representatives has the sole power to
conduct legislative investigations to determine the existence
of cause for impeachment and, by the vote of a majority of
the members elected, to impeach Executive and Judicial
officers. Impeachments shall be tried by the Senate. When
sitting for that purpose, Senators shall be upon oath, or
affirmation, to do justice according to law. If the Governor
is tried, the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court shall
preside. No person shall be convicted without the concurrence
of two-thirds of the Senators elected. Judgment shall not
extend beyond removal from office and disqualification to
hold any public office of this State. An impeached officer,
whether convicted or acquitted, shall be liable to
prosecution, trial, judgment and punishment according to law.
The Illinois House of Representatives impeached Blagojevich. The Senate had a trial and convicted him. I see nothing in there requiring anyone to be indicted before this happens. The Illinois Constitution doesn't even give grounds like the U.S. Constitution phrase "Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors".
Re: Well, Sh*t Happens....
Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 10:11 am
by Flybrick
Ok, that explains it.
Thanks.
Re: Well, Sh*t Happens....
Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 10:24 am
by nitrah55
I recall many years ago when there was a movement to impeach Earl Warren as Chief Justice of the US. At that time, then-congressman Gerald Ford famously said, "Grounds for impeachment are whatever the House of Representatives says they are."
And that's pretty much the way it works. Impeachment is a political process, not a judicial process.
Re: Well, Sh*t Happens....
Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 10:43 am
by ne1410s
What I did notice during the circus yesterday: there was dead silence when you walked in. There was dead silence when you walked out.
Re: Well, Sh*t Happens....
Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 10:48 am
by Flybrick
Yes, I understand the political process and implications, but wanted to know the words and meanings.
As mentioned, "Treason, High crimes, and misdemeanors" or nearly that are for the US President.
I wondered what it might be for Blago as he hasn't even been indicted (yet).
Re: Well, Sh*t Happens....
Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 11:06 am
by silverscreenselect
I wouldn't call what happened to Blago a kangaroo court because that would be highly unfair to kangaroos. By any semblance of justice and due process, this was a joke. Essentially, he was convicted because he had become an embarrassment to the state.
Re: Well, Sh*t Happens....
Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 11:10 am
by Bob Juch
silverscreenselect wrote:I wouldn't call what happened to Blago a kangaroo court because that would be highly unfair to kangaroos. By any semblance of justice and due process, this was a joke. Essentially, he was convicted because he had become an embarrassment to the state.
And in Illinois that takes some doing!
Re: Well, Sh*t Happens....
Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 11:34 am
by a1mamacat
silverscreenselect wrote:I wouldn't call what happened to Blago a kangaroo court because that would be highly unfair to kangaroos. By any semblance of justice and due process, this was a joke. Essentially, he was convicted because he had become an embarrassment to the state.
The state, the town he lives in, the house he lives in, his parents, children, extended relatives, and probably his dog has gone into hiding too.
Re: Well, Sh*t Happens....
Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 2:51 pm
by Bob78164
silverscreenselect wrote:I wouldn't call what happened to Blago a kangaroo court because that would be highly unfair to kangaroos. By any semblance of justice and due process, this was a joke. Essentially, he was convicted because he had become an embarrassment to the state.
I'm not concerned. Any citizen of Illinois who feels that the Legislature treated Blagojevich unfairly will have recourse at the next election, at least as to their representatives.
I think we saw that dynamic in action in 1998 and 2000. I am convinced that part of the reason James Rogan lost his re-election bid was his role in Clinton's impeachment. --Bob
Re: Well, Sh*t Happens....
Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 3:03 pm
by TheConfessor
Bob78164 wrote:I'm not concerned. Any citizen of Illinois who feels that the Legislature treated Blagojevich unfairly will have recourse at the next election, at least as to their representatives.
Not entirely. The Legislature not only impeached Blago, but they passed separate legislation that prohibits him from ever running for public office in Illinois.
Re: Well, Sh*t Happens....
Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 3:05 pm
by ulysses5019
a1mamacat wrote:silverscreenselect wrote:I wouldn't call what happened to Blago a kangaroo court because that would be highly unfair to kangaroos. By any semblance of justice and due process, this was a joke. Essentially, he was convicted because he had become an embarrassment to the state.
The state, the town he lives in, the house he lives in, his parents, children, extended relatives, and probably his dog has gone into hiding too.
I'm sure ES still sports the Blago helmet do.
Re: Well, Sh*t Happens....
Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 3:21 pm
by Bob78164
TheConfessor wrote:Bob78164 wrote:I'm not concerned. Any citizen of Illinois who feels that the Legislature treated Blagojevich unfairly will have recourse at the next election, at least as to their representatives.
Not entirely. The Legislature not only impeached Blago, but they passed separate legislation that prohibits him from ever running for public office in Illinois.
I agree that what's done can't be undone. (Although if Illinois has term limits, Blago was probably already prevented from running for governor again.) But my point is that the people who made this decision remain answerable to their constituents, and that fact is a check on their ability and/or desire to abuse the impeachment power.
By the way (to pick a couple of nits), the "political death penalty" was part of the impeachment process, not legislation, and I'm not sure whether it applies only to
state offices or to any office, including local or county offices, within Illinois. --Bob
Re: Well, Sh*t Happens....
Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 3:36 pm
by ne1410s
bob#s:
(Although if Illinois has term limits, Blago was probably already prevented from running for governor again.)
Illinois' governors have term limits: one in office and one in federal prison...
OK, I stole it. So sue me.
Re: Well, Sh*t Happens....
Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 3:37 pm
by silverscreenselect
TheConfessor wrote:Bob78164 wrote:I'm not concerned. Any citizen of Illinois who feels that the Legislature treated Blagojevich unfairly will have recourse at the next election, at least as to their representatives.
Not entirely. The Legislature not only impeached Blago, but they passed separate legislation that prohibits him from ever running for public office in Illinois.
I'm not sure that would prevent him from running for US Senate or House. Although, as a practical matter, he should probably hold on to those filing fees since he'll need them to pay his attorneys.
Re: Well, Sh*t Happens....
Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 4:31 pm
by Bob78164
silverscreenselect wrote:TheConfessor wrote:Bob78164 wrote:I'm not concerned. Any citizen of Illinois who feels that the Legislature treated Blagojevich unfairly will have recourse at the next election, at least as to their representatives.
Not entirely. The Legislature not only impeached Blago, but they passed separate legislation that prohibits him from ever running for public office in Illinois.
I'm not sure that would prevent him from running for US Senate or House. Although, as a practical matter, he should probably hold on to those filing fees since he'll need them to pay his attorneys.
I'm pretty sure that it wouldn't. --Bob
Re: Well, Sh*t Happens....
Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 4:51 pm
by andrewjackson
Bob78164 wrote:silverscreenselect wrote:TheConfessor wrote:
Not entirely. The Legislature not only impeached Blago, but they passed separate legislation that prohibits him from ever running for public office in Illinois.
I'm not sure that would prevent him from running for US Senate or House. Although, as a practical matter, he should probably hold on to those filing fees since he'll need them to pay his attorneys.
I'm pretty sure that it wouldn't. --Bob
From the Illinois Constitution about impeachment that I quoted earlier:
Judgment shall not
extend beyond removal from office and disqualification to
hold any public office of this State.
"public office of this State" would seem to me to allow him to run for Congress even from Illinois.
I don't see that happening.
Re: Well, Sh*t Happens....
Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 7:09 pm
by ne1410s
FWIW: Illinois does not have term limits.