WWTBAM Bored

Police say a Wal-Mart worker has died after being trampled by a throng of unruly shoppers shortly after the Valley Stream store on Long Island opened Friday.

http://www.thestreet.com/story/10450426 ... &cm_ite=NA

That's horrible.

I am deliberately staying home today. Holidays should be about family, not shopping.

They showed that WalMart on the "local" news this morning. The store was closed and the traffic was backed up because the parking lot was too full and people waited for the store to re-open.

That's awful.

Traffic was very light at the local Mecca this morning. The big ticket items going out the door were big screen televisions and Barbie jeeps.

We opened at midnight last night.... the first year we ever did that. That avoided the traditional door rushing at 5 AM....

I was told I missed some wild times the year the Furbys were the big item. I just don't get the shopping mentality..... especially the Black Friday craze.....

lb13

I didn't see anything in the Mecca ad really worth unassing the bed for, much less trampling.

WheresFanny wrote:I didn't see anything in the Mecca ad really worth unassing the bed for, much less trampling.

I read all of the Thanksgiving ads this morning and I didn't see anything interesting inside.

I would arrest everyone who ran in to the freaking store. Then see if you can identify the actual tramplers, forensically. None of them were escaping a fire, sniper or whatever, in which case mad panic would have been understandable.

Yes, I know it would be near-impossible to prove who did what. Or maybe not; lots of surveillance cameras around, meant to pick up shoplifting footage, I'd bet. Aren't you all glad I don't run the world, as I'd arrest them & hold them all "while we sort it out".

ghostjmf wrote:I would arrest everyone who ran in to the freaking store. Then see if you can indentify the actual tramplers, forensically. None of them were escaping a fire, sniper or whatever, in which case mad panic would have been understandable.

Yes, I know it would be near-impossible to prove who did what. Or maybe not; lots of surveillance cameras around, meant to pick up shoplifting footage, I'd bet. Aren't you all glad I don't run the world, as I'd arrest them & hold them all "while we sort it out".

This is not very far from where I live. I heard that the police were indeed studying the surveillance tapes, but I doubt very much that they will be able to single out anybody to charge. There's no ringleader in an incident of this type.

The store itself will, no doubt, be hit with a huge lawsuit, and I'm sure they will settle. But I suspect criminal charges will never be filed against anybody.

I can't imagine how the employees of that store went on with their day.

That one great day for family is a fine tradition for which I admire USA; the addition of endless football and 4AM shopping might as well have been written by George Costanza. Well, endless football is not that bad, FWIW.

The back story for this disaster is interesting; this is one of the 3 Walmart stores closest to NYC and was #2 in the world for total sales for Black Friday in 2007. Secaucus, NJ was first. NB for ghost, the physics of crowd trampling is usually pushing from behind where one can't exactly see what is happening in front. Those in front may be completely unable to avoid being carried forward.

According to the news, they actually broke down the doors of the store. Several others were injured and taken to the hospital.

Last time I was in a large crowd where really stupid pushing was going on, I was trying to see fireworks; it was really stupid pushing, so I just turned around & wove through the crowd in the other direction, which was remarkably easy to do, considering, & wound up some place that was less good to see fireworks from but less mean, too.

And I never went down to that locale to see the fireworks again. The less-good places are a lot less crowded, & you can still see the fireworks.

Now, I admit this was not a killer stampede, or I'd probably have been stampeded even when heading against the flow.

It saddens me that this happened here on Long Island. I blame store management and ultimately Wal-Mart corporate for not being prepared for the mob.
This tragedy could have and should have been prevented.

franktangredi wrote:The store itself will, no doubt, be hit with a huge lawsuit, and I'm sure they will settle.

Probably not. If New York law is the same as California law, any potential claim would be preempted by the workers' compensation system. --Bob

Bob78164 wrote:

franktangredi wrote:The store itself will, no doubt, be hit with a huge lawsuit, and I'm sure they will settle.

Probably not. If New York law is the same as California law, any potential claim would be preempted by the workers' compensation system. --Bob

In Colorado, that's not absolute. Workers can waive a workers' comp claim and go out on their own, as can families if there is a fatality. The system is heavily weighted in favor of utilizing the workers' comp system -- insurance companies will not pay for any treatment needed for a work-related illness or injury, nor will they pay death benefits for a work-related fatality. The employee, or family, if fatal, is entirely on the hook for bringing the claim and proving employer or other fault and being awarded damages. Excuse me if I used "prove" wrong, not sure how that works in lawsuits. Anyway, if the lawsuit is not successful, they're on the hook for all doctor and hospital costs plus medication and physical therapy or whatever -- all without the discounts typically negotiated by workers' comp and group insurance carriers.

I feel terrible about that person's death. As I mentioned earlier, the local WalMart was hectic at 5 a.m. because people were anxious to get a giant flat-screen television for approximately half price, but crowds were light. I heard later that the televisions sold out around 7 a.m. No one spent the night in line because the store is open 24 hours, but where the crowds are so heavy, that probably wouldn't be such a great idea for a heavily-populated area. You would have the entire store full of people in line to check out at 5 a.m. with their bargain items.

I was in Phoenix for Thanksgiving maybe 10-12 years ago, and my brother warned me not to visit WalMart in the morning. He said that the year before, two people got into a fistfight -- fortunately no guns as happened at Toys 'R' Us -- and one was hospitalized. So I went at 5:00 p.m. for some lovely bargains on cards and wrapping paper and felt completely safe. I asked my check-out person about fights, and she said there was a shouting match in the perfume section but no fisticuffs.

I am so glad that no one was trampled here or the other WalMarts within driving distance -- it would be such a blow to our communities, as I'm sure it was there too. That particular looking glass would make anybody flinch, I think.

Really a tragic thanksgiving all around - the horrid news from India, reading about what happened to so many families - so sad.

As far as holding anyone responsible for the Walmart tragedy, even if you could identify the people that trampled that poor worker via forensic evidence I'm not sure that they really are responsible. In a mob situation with a very narrow opening - more likely they were being pushed by those behind them and could not stop the forward momentum no matter how they tried. Of course I haven't seen the store video - but I guess it was more likely they were pushed from behind rather than intentionally trampled the worker.

It reminds me of what happened back in the fall of 1979 at the who concert in in Ohio. Those at the front, near the door, had no control as the crowd from behind provided the force.

Our thoughts are with all of those how suffered losses over the past several days.

On a final note I want to pass along that Chabad has asked folks to light a candle in memory of the Rabbi and Mrs. Holtzberg.

---Jay

SportsFan68 wrote:I was in Phoenix for Thanksgiving maybe 10-12 years ago, and my brother warned me not to visit WalMart in the morning. He said that the year before, two people got into a fistfight -- fortunately no guns as happened at Toys 'R' Us -- and one was hospitalized. So I went at 5:00 p.m. for some lovely bargains on cards and wrapping paper and felt completely safe. I asked my check-out person about fights, and she said there was a shouting match in the perfume section but no fisticuffs.

That was probably the Furby Christmas. I'm pretty sure that was 1997, the last Christmas before I started working there....

lb13

I have to suspend my faith in the basic decency of human nature on Black Friday.

I have told this story before, so skip it when it starts sounding familiar. Or even before that.

I was in a mob situation once, on the Eiffel Tower after sunset, when everyone decided they had to leave right then. There was no panic, just stupidity. People were pushing, to try to get more on the elevator going down, and it got ugly. PAFBoy started shouting in three languages for people to back off, because they had wrapped a little girl around a metal railing. He was my hero before then but even more so after.

I had to lie on my back in the grass for several minutes after we got down from there. Later that summer we went to Carowinds, a theme park near here. We went on a ride that was new that summer, which was just a little bitty car that would go straight and then turn sharply just as it seemed you would fall off. When we got off, PAFBoy said I had my Eiffel Tower face on.

The family is suing Walmart*, the mall, the county, and the county police department.