WWTBAM Bored

I'm sad that it passed. I thought that Californians were more enlightened.

Many of the churches in the area scared their parishioners by telling them that if 8 didn't pass, they would be forced to marry gays or lose their tax exempt status, which is simply not true. Catholic Priests do no not have to marry divorced people or people who don't belong to their Church, so why would they have to marry gays if it was against their religion. I would imagine that it would be the same for all denominations.

I was surprised too, especially since people have seen that society hasn't collapsed with Ellen and Portia's marriage...

Does this proposition have any effect on the gay marriages that have already taken place?

silverscreenselect wrote:Does this proposition have any effect on the gay marriages that have already taken place?

Edited because I was wrong. Apparently, as long as they were married before yesterday, their marriage is still valid. However, people are concerned that this will not remain the case.

Boy, after I said that there were a million reasons why I wouldn't live in California, I discover that the people there are just as much un-enlightened, prejudiced SOBs as us hicks in the sticks.

I mean, we now both have constitutional amendments outlawng affirmative action and gay marriages.

Come on over to CT, we're apparently more liberal here. For now.

Congratulations, Archie Bunker...

The comments were interesting on both the LA Times article and the CNN story. Many self-proclaimed homosexuals were apoplectic about the reported polling data that 69% of African-Americans voted in favor.

Chalk one up for conservative values. Yay!

Chickens??

TheCalvinator24 wrote:LA Times has declared the Prop 8 has passed.

dimmy wrote:I was surprised too, especially since people have seen that society hasn't collapsed with Ellen and Portia's marriage...

Give it time. Evolution took over 6,000 years.

psm wrote:I'm sad that it passed. I thought that Californians were more enlightened.

They were enlighteded and now they are wise.

sunflower wrote:Chickens??

California prop 2 also passed. I voted against it. If I'm eating them, I'm not too concerned about their comfort.

It's disgusting, it's appalling, it's horrendous. I only hope we look back on these days in shame for how we treated our fellow human beings.

madamemeisha wrote:It's disgusting, it's appalling, it's horrendous. I only hope we look back on these days in shame for how we treated our fellow human beings.

Are we discussing abortions now?

PlacentiaSoccerMom wrote:I'm sad that it passed. I thought that Californians were more enlightened.

Many of the churches in the area scared their parishioners by telling them that if 8 didn't pass, they would be forced to marry gays or lose their tax exempt status, which is simply not true. Catholic Priests do no not have to marry divorced people or people who don't belong to their Church, so why would they have to marry gays if it was against their religion. I would imagine that it would be the same for all denominations.

There is some precedent for that in other areas. The Boy Scouts of America have been branded a 'hate group' because they do not admit avowed atheists or gays (no one asks, and people certainly don't have to tell, although an atheist would likely balk at the part of the Scout Oath that refers to doing one's 'duty to God'). Anyway, there have been a lot of actions taken against the BSA (by the ACLU and others) all over the country, particularly in California: for example, the Scouts are no longer allowed to camp in public areas of San Diego, because that would involve public subsidization of a 'hate group' which 'discriminates' in an improper fashion. The BSA has its quadrennial National Jamboree at Fort AP Hill (a federal installation named after an incompetent Confederate General), but that is currently on hold for the same reason (particularly sticky, since the next Jamboree is intended to celebrate the Centennial of BSA).

It's really not much of a stretch to see the possibility that The Usual Suspects would/will argue that an organization that 'discriminates' in a way that some people deem to be inappropriate should lose its tax exempt status, and the mere fact that the discrimination is based upon deeply held religious views would not likely be a defense.

madamemeisha wrote:It's disgusting, it's appalling, it's horrendous. I only hope we look back on these days in shame for how we treated our fellow human beings.

Very well put! I'm disappointed, but still optimistic for the future. This was a close election, and support for same-sex marriage is growing. Some of the people who voted for the proposition were swayed by the proponents' commercials, which mostly portrayed scenarios that were equally likely (more like equally unlikely) whether Proposition 8 passed or not.

I do have to give them credit for using that obnoxious "whether you like it or not!" sound bite from San Francisco mayor Gavin Newsom. I'm sure many people who might have ended up voting No were offended by that and came down on the Yes side.

Appa23 wrote:

madamemeisha wrote:It's disgusting, it's appalling, it's horrendous. I only hope we look back on these days in shame for how we treated our fellow human beings.

Are we discussing abortions now?

Rec

Sir_Galahad wrote:Chalk one up for conservative values. Yay!

I don't want to get snippy, so let me just ask you very simply to explain this to me:

How does it hurt you, or anyone else, if two people who love each other want to make a lifelong commitment?

Better still, don't explain it to me. How would you explain it to a friend of mine in Florida who just said of himself and his partner, "I truly believe X and I will be married someday"? Or to another friend who recently said that he enjoyed Gay Pride Day in his city because it was the one day of the year when he and his partner of many years could hold hands in public without the risk of being harassed? What would you say to them about why you see this as such a victory? What would you say to them if they were members of your family, or friends you dearly loved?

To make my position clear: I have many gay friends. I have one in particular, as many people here know, who almost stands in the position of "the son I never had." No, I confess I wasn't fully comfortable with the idea of gay marriage at first. Some ideas take some getting used to. And once I really started thinking about it, it was amazing how quickly I did get comfortable with it.

franktangredi wrote:

Sir_Galahad wrote:Chalk one up for conservative values. Yay!

I don't want to get snippy, so let me just ask you very simply to explain this to me:

How does it hurt you, or anyone else, if two people who love each other want to make a lifelong commitment?

Better still, don't explain it to me. How would you explain it to a friend of mine in Florida who just said of himself and his partner, "I truly believe X and I will be married someday"? Or to another friend who recently said that he enjoyed Gay Pride Day in his city because it was the one day of the year when he and his partner of many years could hold hands in public without the risk of being harassed? What would you say to them about why you see this as such a victory? What would you say to them if they were members of your family, or friends you dearly loved?

To make my position clear: I have many gay friends. I have one in particular, as many people here know, who almost stands in the position of "the son I never had." No, I confess I wasn't fully comfortable with the idea of gay marriage at first. Some ideas take some getting used to. And once I really started thinking about it, it was amazing how quickly I did get comfortable with it.

Disapproving of Gay Marriage does not equate to approving of harassing homosexuals.

plasticene wrote:

madamemeisha wrote:It's disgusting, it's appalling, it's horrendous. I only hope we look back on these days in shame for how we treated our fellow human beings.

Very well put! I'm disappointed, but still optimistic for the future. This was a close election, and support for same-sex marriage is growing. Some of the people who voted for the proposition were swayed by the proponents' commercials, which mostly portrayed scenarios that were equally likely (more like equally unlikely) whether Proposition 8 passed or not.

I do have to give them credit for using that obnoxious "whether you like it or not!" sound bite from San Francisco mayor Gavin Newsom. I'm sure many people who might have ended up voting No were offended by that and came down on the Yes side.

From what I heard on the radio on the way to volunteer, lawsuits have already been filed against Prop 8 because propositions are not the proper way to amend California's Constitution.

franktangredi wrote:

Sir_Galahad wrote:Chalk one up for conservative values. Yay!

I don't want to get snippy, so let me just ask you very simply to explain this to me:

How does it hurt you, or anyone else, if two people who love each other want to make a lifelong commitment?

Better still, don't explain it to me. How would you explain it to a friend of mine in Florida who just said of himself and his partner, "I truly believe X and I will be married someday"? Or to another friend who recently said that he enjoyed Gay Pride Day in his city because it was the one day of the year when he and his partner of many years could hold hands in public without the risk of being harassed? What would you say to them about why you see this as such a victory? What would you say to them if they were members of your family, or friends you dearly loved?

To make my position clear: I have many gay friends. I have one in particular, as many people here know, who almost stands in the position of "the son I never had." No, I confess I wasn't fully comfortable with the idea of gay marriage at first. Some ideas take some getting used to. And once I really started thinking about it, it was amazing how quickly I did get comfortable with it.

How would it hurt you or anyone else if a man marries 25 women? Or he marries a horse?

How does it hurt you or anyone else if your next door neighber is having sex with a dead body? What if the deceased requested it? What if he/ or she I guess (but usually these are depraved men) is having sex with a dead cow (or bull).

The point I'm trying to make, is if someone thinks something is morally wrong, then that is what you say to them. "Its wrong". That's it. What else needs to be said? That's what they believe, especially if it is religiously based. I'm not going to question God. Why are you?



If someone pokes you with a pin, it hurts. If they do it often enough for a long enough period of time, it won't hurt anymore. Just because it doesn't hurt anymore doesn't mean it is good for you.

TheCalvinator24 wrote:

franktangredi wrote:

Sir_Galahad wrote:Chalk one up for conservative values. Yay!

I don't want to get snippy, so let me just ask you very simply to explain this to me:

How does it hurt you, or anyone else, if two people who love each other want to make a lifelong commitment?

Better still, don't explain it to me. How would you explain it to a friend of mine in Florida who just said of himself and his partner, "I truly believe X and I will be married someday"? Or to another friend who recently said that he enjoyed Gay Pride Day in his city because it was the one day of the year when he and his partner of many years could hold hands in public without the risk of being harassed? What would you say to them about why you see this as such a victory? What would you say to them if they were members of your family, or friends you dearly loved?

To make my position clear: I have many gay friends. I have one in particular, as many people here know, who almost stands in the position of "the son I never had." No, I confess I wasn't fully comfortable with the idea of gay marriage at first. Some ideas take some getting used to. And once I really started thinking about it, it was amazing how quickly I did get comfortable with it.

Disapproving of Gay Marriage does not equate to approving of harassing homosexuals.

No, that was an attempt to get him to shape his response to real human beings and create some empathy.

In any case, you have focused on a detail and ignored the main point of my post. If you eliminate that sentence, the question still holds.

BackInTex wrote:

franktangredi wrote:

Sir_Galahad wrote:Chalk one up for conservative values. Yay!

I don't want to get snippy, so let me just ask you very simply to explain this to me:

How does it hurt you, or anyone else, if two people who love each other want to make a lifelong commitment?

Better still, don't explain it to me. How would you explain it to a friend of mine in Florida who just said of himself and his partner, "I truly believe X and I will be married someday"? Or to another friend who recently said that he enjoyed Gay Pride Day in his city because it was the one day of the year when he and his partner of many years could hold hands in public without the risk of being harassed? What would you say to them about why you see this as such a victory? What would you say to them if they were members of your family, or friends you dearly loved?

To make my position clear: I have many gay friends. I have one in particular, as many people here know, who almost stands in the position of "the son I never had." No, I confess I wasn't fully comfortable with the idea of gay marriage at first. Some ideas take some getting used to. And once I really started thinking about it, it was amazing how quickly I did get comfortable with it.

How would it hurt you or anyone else if a man marries 25 women? Or he marries a horse?

How does it hurt you or anyone else if your next door neighber is having sex with a dead body? What if the deceased requested it? What if he/ or she I guess (but usually these are depraved men) is having sex with a dead cow (or bull).

The point I'm trying to make, is if someone thinks something is morally wrong, then that is what you say to them. "Its wrong". That's it. What else needs to be said? That's what they believe, especially if it is religiously based. I'm not going to question God. Why are you?



If someone pokes you with a pin, it hurts. If they do it often enough for a long enough period of time, it won't hurt anymore. Just because it doesn't hurt anymore doesn't mean it is good for you.

If someone thinks something is morally wrong I'm certainly not going to insist he do it.