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I know of one instance of the Bradley Effect: my daughter. She said she agreed with me that Obama would be the best President for her (seeing how she's probably disabled for life), but she told Brittany that she'd never vote for an n-word. So she didn't vote at all.

Bob Juch wrote:I know of one instance of the Bradley Effect: my daughter. She said she agreed with me that Obama would be the best President for her (seeing how she's probably disabled for life), but she told Brittany that she'd never vote for an n-word. So she didn't vote at all.

Do you think you had anything to do with any of this result?

peacock2121 wrote:

Bob Juch wrote:I know of one instance of the Bradley Effect: my daughter. She said she agreed with me that Obama would be the best President for her (seeing how she's probably disabled for life), but she told Brittany that she'd never vote for an n-word. So she didn't vote at all.

Do you think you had anything to do with any of this result?

He raised her.

BackInTex wrote:

peacock2121 wrote:

Bob Juch wrote:I know of one instance of the Bradley Effect: my daughter. She said she agreed with me that Obama would be the best President for her (seeing how she's probably disabled for life), but she told Brittany that she'd never vote for an n-word. So she didn't vote at all.

Do you think you had anything to do with any of this result?

He raised her.

Part of my point.

Although, I don't know that he did.

peacock2121 wrote:

BackInTex wrote:

peacock2121 wrote: Do you think you had anything to do with any of this result?

He raised her.

Part of my point.

Although, I don't know that he did.

You're right, I didn't.

Bob Juch wrote:

peacock2121 wrote:

BackInTex wrote: He raised her.

Part of my point.

Although, I don't know that he did.

You're right, I didn't.

Oh, my apologies.

LB, what's the count up to on me being wrong?

BackInTex wrote:

Bob Juch wrote:

peacock2121 wrote: Part of my point.

Although, I don't know that he did.

You're right, I didn't.

Oh, my apologies.

LB, what's the count up to on me being wrong?

Should I start with you thinking I was a girl 8 years ago?

I may be counting a while......

lb13

littlebeast13 wrote:

BackInTex wrote:LB, what's the count up to on me being wrong?

Should I start with you thinking I was a girl 8 years ago?

I may be counting a while......

lb13

Might as well start at the begining.

Bob Juch wrote:You're right, I didn't.

Then she'd be deluded instead of racist- I guess that's a little better.

Jeemie wrote:

Bob Juch wrote:You're right, I didn't.

Then she'd be deluded instead of racist- I guess that's a little better.

No, she's racist. At least my granddaughters aren't.

Bob Juch wrote:

Jeemie wrote:

Bob Juch wrote:You're right, I didn't.

Then she'd be deluded instead of racist- I guess that's a little better.

No, she's racist. At least my granddaughters aren't.

No- I was saying if you had raised her, she'd be deluded instead of racist...which I would agree is a slightly better outcome.

BackInTex wrote:

Bob Juch wrote:

peacock2121 wrote: Part of my point.

Although, I don't know that he did.

You're right, I didn't.

Oh, my apologies.

LB, what's the count up to on me being wrong?

Don't worry about it, you know who to blame.

Bob Juch wrote:I know of one instance of the Bradley Effect: my daughter. She said she agreed with me that Obama would be the best President for her (seeing how she's probably disabled for life), but she told Brittany that she'd never vote for an n-word. So she didn't vote at all.

Sorry Bob. Our kids will become who they are, no matter our contributions. Perhaps you can look at the fact of mitigation in that in spite of her views, she chose a quiet way to express them, simply by not voting, rather than a violent public display of rioting etc. That might bring some calm.

We can only show them the path, we can't make them walk it.

a1mamacat wrote:

Bob Juch wrote:I know of one instance of the Bradley Effect: my daughter. She said she agreed with me that Obama would be the best President for her (seeing how she's probably disabled for life), but she told Brittany that she'd never vote for an n-word. So she didn't vote at all.

Sorry Bob. Our kids will become who they are, no matter our contributions. Perhaps you can look at the fact of mitigation in that in spite of her views, she chose a quiet way to express them, simply by not voting, rather than a violent public display of rioting etc. That might bring some calm.

We can only show them the path, we can't make them walk it.

No, but we can make them walk the plank.

a1mamacat wrote:

Bob Juch wrote:I know of one instance of the Bradley Effect: my daughter. She said she agreed with me that Obama would be the best President for her (seeing how she's probably disabled for life), but she told Brittany that she'd never vote for an n-word. So she didn't vote at all.

Sorry Bob. Our kids will become who they are, no matter our contributions. Perhaps you can look at the fact of mitigation in that in spite of her views, she chose a quiet way to express them, simply by not voting, rather than a violent public display of rioting etc. That might bring some calm.

We can only show them the path, we can't make them walk it.

I'll take issue with both of the italiced (however the heck you spell that) parts.

Parents do matter, we do influence, we can see what difference our influence is making from the very beginning. We can stay awake. When we fall asleep, we can note that we were asleep and step up. We can mold our influence, we can do the dance, we can do all sorts of things to influence our children. Some give up too ealry and think there is nothing they can do. Some try the same thing over and over when it is as obvious as the nose on their face that what they are doing is not making the difference they want to make.

We make little difference by showing the path - we make more of a difference by living or being the path. We can not make them walk, we can make the walk inviting and interesting and love them along the way.

Bob Juch wrote:I know of one instance of the Bradley Effect: my daughter. She said she agreed with me that Obama would be the best President for her (seeing how she's probably disabled for life), but she told Brittany that she'd never vote for an n-word. So she didn't vote at all.

We have a good friend at church who told us that her father wasn't going to vote for either party because he couldn't vote for either a woman or a black man, since neither was capable of running the country.

earendel wrote:

Bob Juch wrote:I know of one instance of the Bradley Effect: my daughter. She said she agreed with me that Obama would be the best President for her (seeing how she's probably disabled for life), but she told Brittany that she'd never vote for an n-word. So she didn't vote at all.

We have a good friend at church who told us that her father wasn't going to vote for either party because he couldn't vote for either a woman or a black man, since neither was capable of running the country.

Well, bless his heart.

peacock2121 wrote:

a1mamacat wrote:

Bob Juch wrote:I know of one instance of the Bradley Effect: my daughter. She said she agreed with me that Obama would be the best President for her (seeing how she's probably disabled for life), but she told Brittany that she'd never vote for an n-word. So she didn't vote at all.

Sorry Bob. Our kids will become who they are, no matter our contributions. Perhaps you can look at the fact of mitigation in that in spite of her views, she chose a quiet way to express them, simply by not voting, rather than a violent public display of rioting etc. That might bring some calm.

We can only show them the path, we can't make them walk it.

I'll take issue with both of the italiced (however the heck you spell that) parts.

Parents do matter, we do influence, we can see what difference our influence is making from the very beginning. We can stay awake. When we fall asleep, we can note that we were asleep and step up. We can mold our influence, we can do the dance, we can do all sorts of things to influence our children. Some give up too ealry and think there is nothing they can do. Some try the same thing over and over when it is as obvious as the nose on their face that what they are doing is not making the difference they want to make.

We make little difference by showing the path - we make more of a difference by living or being the path. We can not make them walk, we can make the walk inviting and interesting and love them along the way.

Megadittoes for pea

Yes, I know one too. He voted a straight Democratic ticket except for the Presidency. He assured me he would continue to support local Dem candidates, which I appreciated.

I know a couple people who voted the other way too. They looked back over the previous eight years and said, "Enough." They swallowed hard and voted for a black person.

I don't kid myself that they're Dems now or that they're not racist anymore.

My experience is not universal, and perhaps I live in a very small world. Still, since the presidential campaigns began, I have never heard one person express aloud a disparaging word about the president-elect's ethnic background.

Yes, I know that attitude exists, because I have seen it written on message boards, but I have never encountered it in my day-to-day life.

One of the things that bothered me most about the way Bush and his crowd ran the country was their insistence that criticism of them in any regard as to the war in Iraq or the "war on terror" was unpatriotic, not supporting the troops, etc. That type of argument isn't supporting the troops (and considering how willing the Republicans were to send them into combat poorly armed, keep them serving tour after tour and then fail to give them proper medical treatment, it's hard to say the Republicans ever really "supported" our troops), it's hiding behind them.

Now, we're looking at a campaign in which the Democrats did the same thing and we face the possibility of four more years of Democrats saying that if you don't support Obama or any of his policies, you're racist. 48% of the voters in this country voted against Obama, and the overwhelming majority of them aren't racists. They had a lot of reasons to vote against him, some more valid than others, but for very few, the issue was race and almost all of them wouldn't have voted for Hillary or any other Democrat anyway. I would guess that a lot more people voted for Obama because of his race rather than against it.

If the Democrats try to deflect criticism of their policies or Obama's decisions by hiding behind the racism straw man, it's as big a mistake as the Republicans trying to hide behind the flag to support their foreign policy.

silvercamaro wrote:My experience is not universal, and perhaps I live in a very small world. Still, since the presidential campaigns began, I have never heard one person express aloud a disparaging word about the president-elect's ethnic background.

Yes, I know that attitude exists, because I have seen it written on message boards, but I have never encountered it in my day-to-day life.

But that's the Bradley Effect. They won't admit it.

peacock2121 wrote:

a1mamacat wrote:

Bob Juch wrote:I know of one instance of the Bradley Effect: my daughter. She said she agreed with me that Obama would be the best President for her (seeing how she's probably disabled for life), but she told Brittany that she'd never vote for an n-word. So she didn't vote at all.

Sorry Bob. Our kids will become who they are, no matter our contributions. Perhaps you can look at the fact of mitigation in that in spite of her views, she chose a quiet way to express them, simply by not voting, rather than a violent public display of rioting etc. That might bring some calm.

We can only show them the path, we can't make them walk it.

I'll take issue with both of the italiced (however the heck you spell that) parts.

Parents do matter, we do influence, we can see what difference our influence is making from the very beginning. We can stay awake. When we fall asleep, we can note that we were asleep and step up. We can mold our influence, we can do the dance, we can do all sorts of things to influence our children. Some give up too ealry and think there is nothing they can do. Some try the same thing over and over when it is as obvious as the nose on their face that what they are doing is not making the difference they want to make.

We make little difference by showing the path - we make more of a difference by living or being the path. We can not make them walk, we can make the walk inviting and interesting and love them along the way.

I like my nuggets of wisdom to be just that- nuggets.

I'll be so bold as to say saucy's nugget of wisdom meant everything you just said.

Jeemie wrote:

peacock2121 wrote:

a1mamacat wrote: Sorry Bob. Our kids will become who they are, no matter our contributions. Perhaps you can look at the fact of mitigation in that in spite of her views, she chose a quiet way to express them, simply by not voting, rather than a violent public display of rioting etc. That might bring some calm.

We can only show them the path, we can't make them walk it.

I'll take issue with both of the italiced (however the heck you spell that) parts.

Parents do matter, we do influence, we can see what difference our influence is making from the very beginning. We can stay awake. When we fall asleep, we can note that we were asleep and step up. We can mold our influence, we can do the dance, we can do all sorts of things to influence our children. Some give up too ealry and think there is nothing they can do. Some try the same thing over and over when it is as obvious as the nose on their face that what they are doing is not making the difference they want to make.

We make little difference by showing the path - we make more of a difference by living or being the path. We can not make them walk, we can make the walk inviting and interesting and love them along the way.

I like my nuggets of wisdom to be just that- nuggets.

I'll be so bold as to say saucy's nugget of wisdom meant everything you just said.

Thanks Jeemie.
I thought I was clear that "no matter what" meant that one had actually made an effort to do one's best, and that "show them the path" was also pretty clear about leading by example.

peacock2121 wrote:

a1mamacat wrote:

Bob Juch wrote:I know of one instance of the Bradley Effect: my daughter. She said she agreed with me that Obama would be the best President for her (seeing how she's probably disabled for life), but she told Brittany that she'd never vote for an n-word. So she didn't vote at all.

Sorry Bob. Our kids will become who they are, no matter our contributions. Perhaps you can look at the fact of mitigation in that in spite of her views, she chose a quiet way to express them, simply by not voting, rather than a violent public display of rioting etc. That might bring some calm.

We can only show them the path, we can't make them walk it.

I'll take issue with both of the italiced (however the heck you spell that) parts.

Parents do matter, we do influence, we can see what difference our influence is making from the very beginning. We can stay awake. When we fall asleep, we can note that we were asleep and step up. We can mold our influence, we can do the dance, we can do all sorts of things to influence our children. Some give up too ealry and think there is nothing they can do. Some try the same thing over and over when it is as obvious as the nose on their face that what they are doing is not making the difference they want to make.

We make little difference by showing the path - we make more of a difference by living or being the path. We can not make them walk, we can make the walk inviting and interesting and love them along the way.

I agree with Pea.

If parents don't influence, then there would be just as many racists coming from non-racist backgrounds as come from racist backgrounds. I do not think that is the case.

Children are wet clay. Parents shape that clay. As children get older the clay begins to dry out and the shaping and re-shaping when you see flaws becomes more difficult. There are other 'artists' working on the clay (society, TV, friends) at the same time. It is the primary artists' (parents) to make sure they know who those artists are and see the work the other artists have done and fix what needs to be fixed. If they don't look at the work daily, they will miss some of the other artists' work and it may become permanent as the clay continues to dry. Once they become adults the clay is dry and all but unmoldable. Parents can see their work and the work left behind by the other artists.

Be good and attentive artists! Your children are your works.