WWTBAM Bored

This is a sad day for any American who values life, especially the lives of those who are the most defenseless among us.

danielh41 wrote:This is a sad day for any American who values life, especially the lives of those who are the most defenseless among us.

Honestly, now. Who didn't see this post coming? C'mon...even McCain was gracious; even Geo. Bush Jr. telephoned the winner.

P.S. Even after eight years of Cheney, women in America retain their right to choose...

P.P.S. Waiting for sss's scintillating commentary shortly...

o-man wrote:

danielh41 wrote:This is a sad day for any American who values life, especially the lives of those who are the most defenseless among us.

Honestly, now. Who didn't see this post coming? C'mon...even McCain was gracious; even Geo. Bush Jr. telephoned the winner.

P.S. Even after eight years of Cheney, women in America retain their right to choose...

P.P.S. Waiting for sss's scintillating commentary shortly...

S³ has probably departed for Canada already.

Thanks, but no thanks.

o-man wrote:P.P.S. Waiting for sss's scintillating commentary shortly...

Obviously I was wrong in thinking that McCain could make it closer. The polls managed to get it right for the most part.

We've survived eight years with an arrogant, incompetent fool for a president; we should be able to get through another four.

And maybe Obama might surprise me by picking some advisors who know what they're doing and letting his own version of Dick Cheney run the show while he's off in Europe making speeches.

danielh41 wrote:This is a sad day for any American who values life, especially the lives of those who are the most defenseless among us.

Better get used to it. Proposition 2 in South Dakota lost, 55-45. --Bob

Also, Colorado didn't pass a measure granting zygotes personhood. All in all, it's been a successful day for those in the pro-women movement.

madamemeisha wrote:Also, Colorado didn't pass a measure granting zygotes personhood. All in all, it's been a successful day for those in the pro-women movement.

Don't count your chickens just yet. Proposition 4 in California (parental notification) is too close to call. --Bob

That's true. Still, it's been better than most. I'm still holding out hope.

i must find my tissue...

Bob78164 wrote:

madamemeisha wrote:Also, Colorado didn't pass a measure granting zygotes personhood. All in all, it's been a successful day for those in the pro-women movement.

Don't count your chickens just yet. Proposition 4 in California (parental notification) is too close to call. --Bob

Letting kids have abortions without their parents' consent is no cause for celebration. It's not "pro-woman" to allow them to do so.

And yes, I'm aware of the arguments against this view- esp protecting kids against parents that don't have their best interests at heart.

I'm not buying them.

danielh41 wrote:This is a sad day for any American who values life, especially the lives of those who are the most defenseless among us.

If, over the coming years the total number of abortions drop under Obama would you still say what you just said?

I may be mistaken but I think the total number of abortions went up under the current President Bush, econimic reasons tend to be one of the biggest factors in making that decision, so it is possible that it might actually be the reverse of what you fear.

---Jay

all of y'all crack me up.

I've been reading Tempting Faith by David Kao, a former director of one of the Right to Life Movements. He said that basically the Republicans saw that RtL'ers will vote on a single issue so they embraced them, giving them lip service to their agenda and knowing that once in office, they won't do a blessed thing about it.

I'm also glad that for this election the Catholic Church took a hit. I'm a Catholic (a despairing one, but optimistic that God can overcome a hindsighted bureaucracy) but I was very offended that the church told me (obliquely) to vote for McCain. And I'm one who can agree with the Church's "Consistent Life Ethic." (but I'm still Pro Choice)

McCain made it clear to anyone who listened that he was against outlawing abortion. He feels it should be a personal choice.

Bob78164 wrote:

danielh41 wrote:This is a sad day for any American who values life, especially the lives of those who are the most defenseless among us.

Better get used to it. Proposition 2 in South Dakota lost, 55-45. --Bob

I wasn't just referring to the presidential election when I said it was a sad day...

Bob Juch wrote:McCain made it clear to anyone who listened that he was against outlawing abortion. He feels it should be a personal choice.

And that's why I'll be throwing my support to candidates like Alan Keyes for the next few years.

frogman042 wrote:

danielh41 wrote:This is a sad day for any American who values life, especially the lives of those who are the most defenseless among us.

If, over the coming years the total number of abortions drop under Obama would you still say what you just said?

I may be mistaken but I think the total number of abortions went up under the current President Bush, econimic reasons tend to be one of the biggest factors in making that decision, so it is possible that it might actually be the reverse of what you fear.

---Jay

Yes, I would say it. It would be like approving a successor to Hitler or Stalin or Saddam because the number of people killed was fewer even though the genocide still went on.

And do you really think the economy would improve under Obama? I sincerely hope it does, but I think the tax policies that he will implement will prevent that.

frogman042 wrote:

danielh41 wrote:This is a sad day for any American who values life, especially the lives of those who are the most defenseless among us.

If, over the coming years the total number of abortions drop under Obama would you still say what you just said?

I may be mistaken but I think the total number of abortions went up under the current President Bush, econimic reasons tend to be one of the biggest factors in making that decision, so it is possible that it might actually be the reverse of what you fear.

---Jay

The abortion rate in the United States has decreased in the United States since 2000. I have no doubt that it will continue to drop. One reason is that there are fewer doctors willing to do abortions. There is one school of thought that this might be the way that Roe v. Wade will be "overturned" -- not in a courtroom but in real life.

For example, the South Dakota abortion amendment being rejected is not the entire story. Abortion in South Dakota is far below the national average. There are two providers in the state. In addition, some South Dakota women travel to surrounding states for abortion services, where there also are limited numbers of providers.

The fight for the rights of all people is not a static thing. There were many avenues of attack utilized in the civil rights movement. It is clear that we have come a long way on that front (though apparently not universally).

I think the RtL movement is a little hypocritical because they ignore the #1 place in America for abortions: fertiility clinics. That is, if you believe that life begins with union of sperm/egg. (I hope I'm not being too technical for some of you boredees )

They also are silent on what punishments they'd give women who would have illegal abortions or go to Canada etc.

They know that if they brought up EITHER of these issues, they'd be non-existent in no time.

JMHO

dimmzy wrote:I think the RtL movement is a little hypocritical because they ignore the #1 place in America for abortions: fertiility clinics. That is, if you believe that life begins with union of sperm/egg. (I hope I'm not being too technical for some of you boredees )

They also are silent on what punishments they'd give women who would have illegal abortions or go to Canada etc.

They know that if they brought up EITHER of these issues, they'd be non-existent in no time.

JMHO

They have brought up the former...quite a bit.

dimmzy wrote:I've been reading Tempting Faith by David Kao, a former director of one of the Right to Life Movements. He said that basically the Republicans saw that RtL'ers will vote on a single issue so they embraced them, giving them lip service to their agenda and knowing that once in office, they won't do a blessed thing about it.

FoodDude has been saying exactly what Dimmzy says here for a long time. One of these days I'll ask him if he's read Tempting Faith.

frogman042 wrote:

danielh41 wrote:This is a sad day for any American who values life, especially the lives of those who are the most defenseless among us.

If, over the coming years the total number of abortions drop under Obama would you still say what you just said?

I may be mistaken but I think the total number of abortions went up under the current President Bush, econimic reasons tend to be one of the biggest factors in making that decision, so it is possible that it might actually be the reverse of what you fear.

---Jay

The single event that started turning the country against Bush and the Republicans was the Terry Schiavo case, when they went out of their way to interfere in what should have been a completely private matter. The Republicans went out of their way to placate the right-to-lifers and managed to turn the majority of the country against them. Since then, it's been all downhill to the tune of losing the Presidency, eleven less Senate seats and fifty less House seats.