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Representative Robin Hayes (R-NC), while "warming up" a crowd, told them: "Liberals hate real Americans that work and accomplish and achieve and believe in God."

When confronted by the press, his staff initially denied he had said it. Then the audio surfaced. Now he admits that he said it but claims he didn't really mean it.

Hayes is reportedly involved in one of the closer congressional races in the country. --Bob

Bob, please stop. Every time you see an article that you interpret as unfavorable to Republicans, you post it here. It would be possible to post every article unfavorable to Democrats, but that would serve no purpose, other than being annoying.

Sometimes, politicians on both sides say things that are not strictly accurate or do not genuinely reflect what is in their brains. For example, I offer these words -- from you -- earlier this morning: "Obama's remark was made off the cuff, and given the chance to retract it (or at least reword it), he did."

real Americans that work and accomplish and achieve and believe in God."

Hey -- I resemble that remark!

Signed, must be one-a-them "self-hating liberals"

Hrmm...

I love all Americans. White, black, hispanic, Christian, Muslim, Jewish, or none of the above, straight, gay, or something in between, hard-working, lazy, whatever. And unless they're mean, I love them just as they are. As God or Allah or mother nature or their own DNA made them. But I guess since most of those folks don't fall into the category of 'real Americans' by that dude's standards, maybe I'm not a 'real American' either. Or at least not a real conservative.

I guess I'll go cry now.

silvercamaro wrote:Bob, please stop. Every time you see an article that you interpret as unfavorable to Republicans, you post it here. It would be possible to post every article unfavorable to Democrats, but that would serve no purpose, other than being annoying.

Sometimes, politicians on both sides say things that are not strictly accurate or do not genuinely reflect what is in their brains. For example, I offer these words -- from you -- earlier this morning: "Obama's remark was made off the cuff, and given the chance to retract it (or at least reword it), he did."

Judy, you are the best.

What Uday said.

silvercamaro wrote:Bob, please stop. Every time you see an article that you interpret as unfavorable to Republicans, you post it here. It would be possible to post every article unfavorable to Democrats, but that would serve no purpose, other than being annoying.

Judy,

I won't promise yet to comply with your request (I did note the seconds), but I will consider it seriously. I do believe, though, that I do not indiscriminately post every anti-Republican article I can find, but instead that I do have some standards concerning what I post in this vein. My goal has been to stick to fact, rather than opinion, and to link articles that, as much as possible, allow the facts to speak for themselves. It is my belief that this approach raises the level of discourse, provided that everyone plays by those rules. That, of course, is the rub.

For a slightly less loaded example, I refer to the global warming thread started last week by suitguy into which I jumped. I found the exchange with smilergrogan genuinely educational. I look forward to his answer to my question so that I may learn more.

Upon reflection, my thread title should have been more oblique, so that those who wish to avoid political threads can do so. At a minimum, I'll do that in the future. --Bob

silvercamaro wrote:Bob, please stop. Every time you see an article that you interpret as unfavorable to Republicans, you post it here. It would be possible to post every article unfavorable to Democrats, but that would serve no purpose, other than being annoying.

Sometimes, politicians on both sides say things that are not strictly accurate or do not genuinely reflect what is in their brains. For example, I offer these words -- from you -- earlier this morning: "Obama's remark was made off the cuff, and given the chance to retract it (or at least reword it), he did."

So does this mean I can't post the quote made by bats**t crazy Minnesota representative Michele Bachmann?

Bob78164 wrote:Representative Robin Hayes (R-NC), while "warming up" a crowd, told them: "Liberals hate real Americans that work and accomplish and achieve and believe in God."

When confronted by the press, his staff initially denied he had said it. Then the audio surfaced. Now he admits that he said it but claims he didn't really mean it.

Hayes is reportedly involved in one of the closer congressional races in the country. --Bob

Granted, I spend too much time in the academy, but I know several liberals who meet that description.

silvercamaro wrote:Sometimes, politicians on both sides say things that are not strictly accurate or do not genuinely reflect what is in their brains. For example, I offer these words -- from you -- earlier this morning: "Obama's remark was made off the cuff, and given the chance to retract it (or at least reword it), he did."

Judy,

I've given further thought to your request. I can't in good conscience comply. Here's why.

I am drawing an inference that's contrary to your suggestion above that remarks of the tenor that I referenced "do not genuinely reflect what is in their brains." I draw this inference because I don't see these as isolated incidents. For example, a McCain campaign spokeswoman referred to the parts of Virgina where she expects support as "real Virginia." Governor Palin herself referred to her preferred demographic as "real Americans." Representative Michele Bachman (R-MN) just revived the ghost of Joe McCarthy by calling for an investigation to determine which Members of Congress are, or are not, "pro-American." And now we have the Hayes quote. (I'm operating from memory, but I believe the quotes are materially correct.)

Thus, it seems to me that at least in this election cycle, specifically the Republican Party has systematically used rhetoric designed to isolate and marginalize those who will not support their political goals. I've certainly seen that dynamic play out in California politics (to the detriment of the California Republican Party). This is where I spend my time, so this is where I share my observations and reasoning (just as I do with respect to less controversial topics, such as baseball).

I believe it is an obligation of citizenship to shed the light of day on this dreck, because if allowed to remain unexamined, it festers. But in the final analysis, I'm a Democrat. There's not much I can do, other than continue to vote Democrat (as I usually do, but not always) and contribute to Democratic candidates if ranking members of the Republican Party continue to spew this crap. The heavy lifting necessary to drive this filth from the Republican Party will have to be done by Republicans. And the first step is to accept that these people meant what they said, and to hold them accountable. That can't happen unless Republicans know about all of the things that have been said. --Bob

Bob78164 wrote:Judy,

I've given further thought to your request. I can't in good conscience comply.

Now that's a real surprise.

By the way, you can. You choose not to, but you can.

Something like personal responsibility and accountability for one's actions.

Flybrick wrote:

Bob78164 wrote:Judy,

I've given further thought to your request. I can't in good conscience comply.

Now that's a real surprise.

By the way, you can. You choose not to, but you can.

Something like personal responsibility and accountability for one's actions.

Not in good conscience, I can't. You have heard of a conscience, haven't you? --Bob

Bob78164 wrote:Thus, it seems to me that at least in this election cycle, specifically the Republican Party has systematically used rhetoric designed to isolate and marginalize those who will not support their political goals.

And how is this different from the Democratic Party and media trying to paint everyone not voting for their guy as racist?

Estonut wrote:

Bob78164 wrote:Thus, it seems to me that at least in this election cycle, specifically the Republican Party has systematically used rhetoric designed to isolate and marginalize those who will not support their political goals.

And how is this different from the Democratic Party and media trying to paint everyone not voting for their guy as racist?

The entire Democratic Party? Ranking members thereof? (BobJuch doesn't count.) All of the news media? If 'Skoop's still reading this thread, she might have something to say about that.

I don't doubt that there are a few nuts here and there who have taken that position, just as there are avowedly racist nuts who will say that they won't vote for Obama because he's black. But I named names and provided quotes to support my point (which you haven't addressed). I'll address your point on the merits when and if you do the same. --Bob

A favorite coach of mine was asked once about the rowdy behavior of the opposing team's fans. "Nobody has a lock on idiots," he replied.

Posts about what idiot politician (and most politicians are idiots) said what, posts about what fanatic vandalized what sign, posts about what was overheard at a rally, and so on... accomplish absolutely nothing. I can find all sorts of idiotic things liberals do all the time. For example, I think the comment by the Minnesota congresswoman is pretty mild compared to what some have said toward Bush, Cheney, Rumseld, or even Kissinger. I don't post such comments here because, one, I have better things to do, and, two, nobody has a lock on idiots.

Bob78164 wrote:

Estonut wrote:

Bob78164 wrote:Thus, it seems to me that at least in this election cycle, specifically the Republican Party has systematically used rhetoric designed to isolate and marginalize those who will not support their political goals.

And how is this different from the Democratic Party and media trying to paint everyone not voting for their guy as racist?

The entire Democratic Party? Ranking members thereof? (BobJuch doesn't count.) All of the news media? If 'Skoop's still reading this thread, she might have something to say about that.

I don't doubt that there are a few nuts here and there who have taken that position, just as there are avowedly racist nuts who will say that they won't vote for Obama because he's black. But I named names and provided quotes to support my point (which you haven't addressed). I'll address your point on the merits when and if you do the same. --Bob

"Undecided people are having a difficult time just culturally making the change, making the move for the first African American president in the history of the United States of America"

Joe Biden, Democratic nominee for Vice-President of the United States

"They're gonna say....he doesn't look like all those other presidents on the dollar bills" Barack Obama, Democratic nominee for President of the United States

Are those high-ranking enough for you, Bob?

Bob78164 wrote:

Estonut wrote:

Bob78164 wrote:Thus, it seems to me that at least in this election cycle, specifically the Republican Party has systematically used rhetoric designed to isolate and marginalize those who will not support their political goals.

And how is this different from the Democratic Party and media trying to paint everyone not voting for their guy as racist?

The entire Democratic Party? Ranking members thereof? (BobJuch doesn't count.) All of the news media? If 'Skoop's still reading this thread, she might have something to say about that.

I don't doubt that there are a few nuts here and there who have taken that position, just as there are avowedly racist nuts who will say that they won't vote for Obama because he's black. But I named names and provided quotes to support my point (which you haven't addressed). I'll address your point on the merits when and if you do the same. --Bob

"Undecided people are having a difficult time just culturally making the change, making the move for the first African American president in the history of the United States of America"

Joseph Biden, Saturday, October 18, 2008

This guy represents the Democratic Party, doesn't he? Now go ahead and tell me what he really meant.

Jeemie wrote:

Bob78164 wrote:

Estonut wrote:And how is this different from the Democratic Party and media trying to paint everyone not voting for their guy as racist?

The entire Democratic Party? Ranking members thereof? (BobJuch doesn't count.) All of the news media? If 'Skoop's still reading this thread, she might have something to say about that.

I don't doubt that there are a few nuts here and there who have taken that position, just as there are avowedly racist nuts who will say that they won't vote for Obama because he's black. But I named names and provided quotes to support my point (which you haven't addressed). I'll address your point on the merits when and if you do the same. --Bob

"Undecided people are having a difficult time just culturally making the change, making the move for the first African American president in the history of the United States of America"

Joe Biden, Democratic nominee for Vice-President of the United States

"They're gonna say....he doesn't look like all those other presidents on the dollar bills" Barack Obama, Democratic nominee for President of the United States

Are those high-ranking enough for you, Bob?

Fair enough. I'm aware of the statements. Could you provide links that let me evaluate their context? Because neither of these statements say (or even imply) that everyone who votes against Obama-Biden is a racist. --Bob

Bob78164 wrote:

Jeemie wrote:

Bob78164 wrote:The entire Democratic Party? Ranking members thereof? (BobJuch doesn't count.) All of the news media? If 'Skoop's still reading this thread, she might have something to say about that.

I don't doubt that there are a few nuts here and there who have taken that position, just as there are avowedly racist nuts who will say that they won't vote for Obama because he's black. But I named names and provided quotes to support my point (which you haven't addressed). I'll address your point on the merits when and if you do the same. --Bob

"Undecided people are having a difficult time just culturally making the change, making the move for the first African American president in the history of the United States of America"

Joe Biden, Democratic nominee for Vice-President of the United States

"They're gonna say....he doesn't look like all those other presidents on the dollar bills" Barack Obama, Democratic nominee for President of the United States

Are those high-ranking enough for you, Bob?

Fair enough. I'm aware of the statements. Could you provide links that let me evaluate their context? Because neither of these statements say (or even imply) that everyone who votes against Obama-Biden is a racist. --Bob

Well- estonut said that.

I provided these as quotes to show the Obama camp making statements that pretty much "isolate and marginalize those that will not support their political goals".

However, I tire of this game, like silvercamaro.

Go on and keep believing you're "following your conscience" instead of being blatantly partisan.

If it floats your boat to believe you're standing on some moral high ground, then so be it.

Bob78164 wrote:

Jeemie wrote:

Bob78164 wrote:The entire Democratic Party? Ranking members thereof? (BobJuch doesn't count.) All of the news media? If 'Skoop's still reading this thread, she might have something to say about that.

I don't doubt that there are a few nuts here and there who have taken that position, just as there are avowedly racist nuts who will say that they won't vote for Obama because he's black. But I named names and provided quotes to support my point (which you haven't addressed). I'll address your point on the merits when and if you do the same. --Bob

"Undecided people are having a difficult time just culturally making the change, making the move for the first African American president in the history of the United States of America"

Joe Biden, Democratic nominee for Vice-President of the United States

"They're gonna say....he doesn't look like all those other presidents on the dollar bills" Barack Obama, Democratic nominee for President of the United States

Are those high-ranking enough for you, Bob?

Fair enough. I'm aware of the statements. Could you provide links that let me evaluate their context? Because neither of these statements say (or even imply) that everyone who votes against Obama-Biden is a racist. --Bob

Love it when my post doesn't post. What I said was the above posts infer some sort of "fear" in people, apparently those who don't plan on voting for Obama/Biden, "culturally making the change", "he doesn't look like all those other presidents on the dollar bills", that paint those people as idiots or racists. I find that offensive. Of course I couldn't possibly vote for someone based on his/her positions, beliefs, associations, proposals. That is a morally superior, arrogant position to take.

There are a zillion silly quotes out there from people who I will NEVER give a rat's ass about, like the pissant NC guy or some pissant Democratic guy somewhere. We all are prone to use these snippets of miniscule history like gnats, they don't even qualify as pointy sticks, because they're stupid and irrelevant. There will always be idiots, which has been said before.

You're a lawyer and you know the context of the candidates' quotes. Most everybody else has heard/read them. They DO imply or infer or whatever the correct word is a certain racist bent and are condescendingly rude. And are just goofy. Just like many Republican statements.

Gnats all around.

This thread pretty much sums up everything I hate about politics and why I choose to be apathetic towards the whole damn partisan system.

It amazes me that people really think they can make a difference in the grand scheme of things, or that the candidate they support can really make a difference in a system that has done an adequate job over the past 220 years, but has, does, and always will have its share of crapola coming from the people who we choose directly or indirectly to run it......

And don't get me started on the party system. When people are allowed to run as individuals in this country, and not under some partisan platform, whether that party be large or small, I may decide to actually pay attention to what's going on.....

The National Apathy Party approves my message.....

lb13

littlebeast13 wrote:The National Apathy Party approves my message.....

lb13

I wouldn't think the NAP would care either way about this message.

Rexer25 wrote:

littlebeast13 wrote:The National Apathy Party approves my message.....

lb13

I wouldn't think the NAP would care either way about this message.

The NAP will always go out of their way to encourage apathy....

Gary Coleman will even bust a few kneecaps if he has to.....

lb13

Rexer25 wrote:

littlebeast13 wrote:The National Apathy Party approves my message.....

lb13

I wouldn't think the NAP would care either way about this message.

Yeah, but the law says he has to have that line.

He just needs to personalize it a bit.

How about: "For what it's worth, The National Apathy Party approves my message. Who cares?"

silvercamaro wrote:Bob, please stop. Every time you see an article that you interpret as unfavorable to Republicans, you post it here. It would be possible to post every article unfavorable to Democrats, but that would serve no purpose, other than being annoying.

Sometimes, politicians on both sides say things that are not strictly accurate or do not genuinely reflect what is in their brains. For example, I offer these words -- from you -- earlier this morning: "Obama's remark was made off the cuff, and given the chance to retract it (or at least reword it), he did."

I don't have a problem with Bob doing this. By posting a political flag in the caption, it is to be assumed what follows is going to be partisan in some way.



The National Apathy Party would have approved this message if they cared enough to consider it.