Political Things I Think

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starfish1113 · #1 Post by **starfish1113** » Fri Sep 26, 2008 8:07 am

I think that:

1. There are some people on this bored who feel it is their mission to denigrate the other candidate with inflammatory rhetoric and pithy witticisms. Who these people are trying to convince is beyond me. I would understand any undecided person on the Bored not wanting to vote for either candidate just to spite our resident talking heads.

2. I have liked McCain since I worked on the Hill more than a decade ago. I admire Palin's spunk and views.

3. Obama is gonna win this thing. Big. The economic downturn will draw most undecideds to the DemocratIC camp. McCain's only chance is to kick ass in the debates, and he has effectively shot himself in the foot by suggesting a delay.

4. My political predictions are most often embarrassingly wrong, so I guess it's still a tossup.

Bob Juch · #2 Post by **Bob Juch** » Fri Sep 26, 2008 8:22 am

McCain is now being blamed for blowing the bailout deal. Republicans are saying, "We had it all settled until he showed up."

I don't like even the lowered bailout proposal.

silverscreenselect · #3 Post by **silverscreenselect** » Fri Sep 26, 2008 8:43 am

Bob Juch wrote:McCain is now being blamed for blowing the bailout deal. Republicans are saying, "We had it all settled until he showed up."

Please provide a source that names one Republican who says that. I did cite a story yesterday from Bob Schieffer of CBS News that Sec Paulson asked McCain to come to Washington to get specifically Senate Republicans on board for the proposal. You'll note that no one has asked for Obama's presence here.

As candidate for President and as a sitting Senator, John McCain is his party's de facto leader at this time. Presumably Barack Obama is the Democrats' leader at this time as well. Obama has been going around for the last two weeks trying to milk this crisis for every vote he has as the "most severe financial crisis this country has faced since the Great Depression." Now we see what that means to him, just empty talk to score political points.

The Democrats announced a pending deal when they obviously didn't have a deal and are now trying to save face by blaming this on McCain. I personally think it's very important that some deal be worked out before Congress adjourns until after the election. If that happens, there could be a severe credit crunch and loss of confidence in a lot more financial institutions (Bush didn't help this by starting the "deadline" talk). John McCain can get Congressional Republicans to go along with a proposal if they get something they can live with, and his efforts to float compromises yesterday were attempts to find a way to get them on board. Eventually, either Harry Reid will realize he's playing with fire here or he will cut off his nose to spite his face.

It's sad to have to say this about the Democratic Party, but this is how low we have sunk: Some of the Democratic leadership is willing to tank the economy to win an election.

MarleysGh0st · #4 Post by **MarleysGh0st** » Fri Sep 26, 2008 8:59 am

A question for SSS: Would you agree with Tocque that Obama is not evil? Or would that be conceding too much?

silverscreenselect · #5 Post by **silverscreenselect** » Fri Sep 26, 2008 9:09 am

MarleysGh0st wrote:A question for SSS: Would you agree with Tocque that Obama is not evil? Or would that be conceding too much?

He's as good or evil as any unprincipled, unethical, lying, sexist, race baiting opportunist can be.

starfish1113 · #6 Post by **starfish1113** » Fri Sep 26, 2008 9:32 am

One add on to prediction #3: If McCain does win, Obama will be persona non-grata in Democratic circles. There is no way an opposition party should lose given the current climate. It's also the best case scenario for Hilary, since her window probably closes if Obama wins and presumably runs in '12. She'd be 70 by the time '16 comes around, not a dealbreaker but certainly a hindrance.

peacock2121 · #7 Post by **peacock2121** » Fri Sep 26, 2008 10:12 am

silverscreenselect wrote:
MarleysGh0st wrote:A question for SSS: Would you agree with Tocque that Obama is not evil? Or would that be conceding too much?
He's as good or evil as any unprincipled, unethical, lying, sexist, race baiting opportunist can be.

Okay - this is really it.

I swear, I will no longer knowingly read any of your posts.

5LD · #8 Post by **5LD** » Fri Sep 26, 2008 10:20 am

SSS - you're gonna pop a vein in your head if you don't chill the freak out.

This astonishing turn about in your world view makes me think you've got some other side issue that is messing with your thoughts. I would worry about anyone I knew who spouted progressive all day long for years and then overnight switched camps. Makes no sense. And your vitriol is palpable.

NellyLunatic1980 · #9 Post by **NellyLunatic1980** » Fri Sep 26, 2008 10:24 am

Comedian silverscreenselect wrote:
MarleysGh0st wrote:A question for SSS: Would you agree with Tocque that Obama is not evil? Or would that be conceding too much?
He's as good or evil as any unprincipled, unethical, lying, sexist, race baiting opportunist can be.

Ad hominem and divisive.

Way to go!

silverscreenselect · #10 Post by **silverscreenselect** » Fri Sep 26, 2008 10:35 am

5LD wrote:SSS - you're gonna pop a vein in your head if you don't chill the freak out.

This astonishing turn about in your world view makes me think you've got some other side issue that is messing with your thoughts. I would worry about anyone I knew who spouted progressive all day long for years and then overnight switched camps. Makes no sense. And your vitriol is palpable.

This is not a change in my world view. It is my view of one man and the effect he has had on my political party. And it's not just me. Some 20 to 30 percent of the voters who supported Hillary, as well as a number of Edwards and even early Obama supporters, feel this way. They may not all vote for McCain but they won't be voting for Obama.

There has never been this high a disconnect in the Democratic party before. Dean supporters got on board for Kerry; Bradley supporters got on board for Gore. We haven't all lost our progressive principles; we've just studied Obama in more depth than a lot of others in the party who either don't know or don't care.

Obama epitomizes much of what was wrong about Bush and adds to it his own brand of sleaze, and the media has gone along with it every step of the way.

If Obama is elected, the losers will be the American public and the Democratic party. The White House isn't a Holiday Inn Express; spending the night there won't make you any more qualified for the job. And the Obama we have seen in every moment of crisis: Georgia, the hurricane and the economic bailout.... eloquent speaking but saying nothing but bland pap, indecisive, aloof, unwilling to take a stand until he determines it's the popular thing to do.... are not qualities you want in the President of the United States.

Tocqueville3 · #11 Post by **Tocqueville3** » Fri Sep 26, 2008 10:35 am

5LD wrote:SSS - you're gonna pop a vein in your head if you don't chill the freak out.

This astonishing turn about in your world view makes me think you've got some other side issue that is messing with your thoughts. I would worry about anyone I knew who spouted progressive all day long for years and then overnight switched camps. Makes no sense. And your vitriol is palpable.

See, this makes me wonder. It makes me wonder why you all can't just let SSS have his opinion.

Can't you all just figure out that to SSS there are things that are more important things than issues to him? He thinks Obama is a slime ball and he's entitled to his opinion.

Why can't he have his opinion without him having some sinister motive behind his dislike of Obama?

I agree with Mitt romney on a lot. I can't stand him, though. If he were our nominee I would be searching for another candidate. Does that make me a liberal? No. It makes me a conservative that would have put personal preference above issues.

To be honest, some of the worst vitriol on this board has been directed at SSS and I think it's simply because you all know deep down inside that when it comes to Barack Obama, he's absolutely right.

5LD · #12 Post by **5LD** » Fri Sep 26, 2008 11:03 am

You, as someone who in the past has been so utterly focused on getting the word out there and promoting a Dem. team to get progressive programs running, your anger toward Obama seems very out of place. Inappropriate even. He's heading the ticket. But lots of other folks will be involved and working toward Democratic goals. You're losing the forest for the trees. If he was as terrible as you paint him out to be, would Ted Kennedy support him so wholeheartedly? Would Hillary? Would Kerry, Dean or Biden?

You make it sound like your anti-Obama stance is all reasonable and an intellectual choice. Looks different from over here.

5LD · #13 Post by **5LD** » Fri Sep 26, 2008 11:08 am

I do not, deep down, believe that SSS's portrayal of Obama is correct, fair or reasoned.

I am not an Obama supporter from way back. I do not think he's the best answer. Do I think he's a better answer than others in this race? Most likely.

NellyLunatic1980 · #14 Post by **NellyLunatic1980** » Fri Sep 26, 2008 11:34 am

Tocqueville3 wrote:
5LD wrote:SSS - you're gonna pop a vein in your head if you don't chill the freak out.

This astonishing turn about in your world view makes me think you've got some other side issue that is messing with your thoughts. I would worry about anyone I knew who spouted progressive all day long for years and then overnight switched camps. Makes no sense. And your vitriol is palpable.
See, this makes me wonder. It makes me wonder why you all can't just let SSS have his opinion.

Can't you all just figure out that to SSS there are things that are more important things than issues to him? He thinks Obama is a slime ball and he's entitled to his opinion.

Why can't he have his opinion without him having some sinister motive behind his dislike of Obama?

Entitled to his own opinion? Yes.

Entitled to his own facts? Computer says no.

silverscreenselect · #15 Post by **silverscreenselect** » Fri Sep 26, 2008 1:02 pm

5LD wrote:You, as someone who in the past has been so utterly focused on getting the word out there and promoting a Dem. team to get progressive programs running, your anger toward Obama seems very out of place. Inappropriate even. He's heading the ticket. But lots of other folks will be involved and working toward Democratic goals. You're losing the forest for the trees. If he was as terrible as you paint him out to be, would Ted Kennedy support him so wholeheartedly? Would Hillary? Would Kerry, Dean or Biden?

You make it sound like your anti-Obama stance is all reasonable and an intellectual choice. Looks different from over here.

The way our current political system is set up, there's only two ways for a politician to have any influence whatsoever, as a Republican or as a Democrat. Look at Ralph Nader, Bob Barr, and Pat Buchanan. They are at best inconsequential and more often than not complete jokes. So Hillary's only choice as far as remaining a viable politician (and the same goes for a lot of her backers such as Ed Rendell) is to support Obama. In 2000, John McCain buried the hatchet with Bush. Had he not done so, his career would have been over. That's how Washington politics works.

Look at Bill Clinton's "support" for Obama to get a more accurate view of what a lot of Democrats feel. Clinton himself has no future in electoral politics so he is free to speak his mind, and he has done so about as fully as can be expected.

As far as Biden, Kerry, Dean, Kennedy and the rest of them, my view is that they know they have zero chance of becoming president and will have very little influence in a Hillary administration. They view Obama as someone whom they can influence and use to shape their vision of what a Democratic administration should be. I think that's extremely shortsighted on their part since Obama has shown no loyalty to anyone other than himself his entire career. He'd throw Kerry or Dean under a bus just as quickly and unemotionally as he'd throw Jeremiah Wright.

VAdame · #16 Post by **VAdame** » Fri Sep 26, 2008 1:03 pm

Some 20 to 30 percent of the voters who supported Hillary, as well as a number of Edwards and even early Obama supporters, feel this way. They may not all vote for McCain but they won't be voting for Obama.

Interesting....as far as I know, I've never met anyone who claimed that.

My family & friends -- the ones who are Dems, anyhow; not all are by any means! -- were pretty evenly divided between Hillary & Obama. Even in my own home during the primary -- 2 for Hillary; 2 for Barack; one who didn't get registered in time to vote but *is* now registered & intends to vote in November. We all managed to respect the others' choices & views, & are all (AFAIK!) on board for Obama in November.

This little exchange took place recently in the Post-Gazette letters to the editor (I'm going to paraphrase; I don't think I can find the originals:

Voter # 1 --

Dear Editor -- I'm a new 18-year-old voter voting in my first presidential election. I campaigned my heart out for the very best candidate my party had to offer -- Hillary Clinton! I did not campaign for Barack Obama. I do not believe he is the best person to be President. So, when I go into the voting booth in November to cast my very first vote for President of the USA -- I'm going to write in the person who I believe is the best candidate -- Hillary Clinton! And I urge all Hillary supporters to do the same! So there, nyah, nyah, nyah......

Sincerely,
Nancy Newvoter

A few days later this one appeared from Voter # 2 --

Dear Editor -- I'm writing in response to Nancy Newvoter...

I was a new, young voter in 1980 - and I campaigned my heart out for the very best candidate our party had to offer -- Ted Kennedy! And there was no way I would vote for poor old Mr. Malaise himself, Jimmy Carter, since I did not believe he was the best person to be President. So, I went into the voting booth that November & wrote in my vote for the best -- Ted Kennedy! And I encouraged other Kennedy supporters to do the same.

It never occurred to me that the American people would actually elect Ronald Reagan as President of the United States!!!!

Dear Nancy, think long & hard about who you want (& more importantly, who you don't want) as President.

Sincerely,
Olivia Oldvoter

BTW, I have many Republicans among my friends & family. And over my years as a conscientious voter (every year since 1976), I have voted for many good individual Republican candidates, at every level from City & County Council to Governor & US Senator, regardless of my own (Democratic) party registration. I am not averse to voting for a good individual Republican candidate for President, if one happened along. But so far, it ain't happened (although McCain-2000-version might have come close!)

Ain't happenin' this year, either.

TheCalvinator24 · #17 Post by **TheCalvinator24** » Fri Sep 26, 2008 1:09 pm

Of course, I believe history has shown that Reagan was better than Carter. He was also tons better than Ted Kennedy would have been.

Flybrick · #18 Post by **Flybrick** » Fri Sep 26, 2008 1:39 pm

TheCalvinator24 wrote:Of course, I believe history has shown that Reagan was better than Carter. He was also tons better than Ted Kennedy would have been.

Nice pun!

BackInTex · #19 Post by **BackInTex** » Fri Sep 26, 2008 2:42 pm

Bob Juch wrote:McCain is now being blamed for blowing the bailout deal. Republicans are saying, "We had it all settled until he showed up."

I don't like even the lowered bailout proposal.

That is a flat out lie. You need to check your sources and if you don't have first person knowledge, just take some of Nelly's offering.

BackInTex · #20 Post by **BackInTex** » Fri Sep 26, 2008 2:43 pm

peacock2121 wrote:
silverscreenselect wrote:
MarleysGh0st wrote:A question for SSS: Would you agree with Tocque that Obama is not evil? Or would that be conceding too much?
He's as good or evil as any unprincipled, unethical, lying, sexist, race baiting opportunist can be.
Okay - this is really it.

I swear, I will no longer knowingly read any of your posts.

You didn't say that when he called me something similar years ago.

So you like Obama more than me?

mrkelley23 · #21 Post by **mrkelley23** » Fri Sep 26, 2008 2:59 pm

silverscreenselect wrote:
MarleysGh0st wrote:A question for SSS: Would you agree with Tocque that Obama is not evil? Or would that be conceding too much?
He's as good or evil as any unprincipled, unethical, lying, sexist, race baiting opportunist can be.

Funny that I read this thread right after reading the one in which SSS took umbrage at being called names. I guess it's the difference between when you're "family," and you actually have some idea about how someone behaves and you give them a chance to defend themselves; and complete strangers who only know about a person what they read in the news, the blogosphere, and whatever embellishments come form the induction of motive.

peacock2121 · #22 Post by **peacock2121** » Fri Sep 26, 2008 5:28 pm

BackInTex wrote:
peacock2121 wrote:
silverscreenselect wrote: He's as good or evil as any unprincipled, unethical, lying, sexist, race baiting opportunist can be.
Okay - this is really it.

I swear, I will no longer knowingly read any of your posts.
You didn't say that when he called me something similar years ago.

So you like Obama more than me?

If I had known he said that about you, I would have first beat him up and then never read his posts again.

I detest that he said that about you.