Here comes the Shutdown

[SpacemanSpiff]

Mrs. Spiff got home yesterday afternoon from her furloughed (lockedout) position, and went to the Virginia Department of Labor to check on unemployment. They already had a special section set up for federal employees affected by the situation, got herself all the forms she needed, and is ready to rock with that if/when it comes to play (since you have to be out of work for a week, they say don't bother sending in stuff until the week has passed).

As far as the sniping about those of us in the private sector facing similar things (companies going broke, etc.), I'll remind folks that I've been on that end as well (in fact, as an accountant, I usually saw it coming -- sometimes quickly enough to bolt, sometimes not).

But to not have a job and paycheck, albeit temporarily, because a bunch of so-called adults are playing a game of Congressional Chicken is something totally different. That's not market forces, nor the economy. It's plain ego (and, in some cases, job preservation) on the part of a bunch of millionaires. It's frustrating, and just plain wrong.

[littlebeast13]

Mrs. Spiff got home yesterday afternoon from her furloughed (lockedout) position, and went to the Virginia Department of Labor to check on unemployment. They already had a special section set up for federal employees affected by the situation, got herself all the forms she needed, and is ready to rock with that if/when it comes to play (since you have to be out of work for a week, they say don't bother sending in stuff until the week has passed).

As far as the sniping about those of us in the private sector facing similar things (companies going broke, etc.), I'll remind folks that I've been on that end as well (in fact, as an accountant, I usually saw it coming -- sometimes quickly enough to bolt, sometimes not).

But to not have a job and paycheck, albeit temporarily, because a bunch of so-called adults are playing a game of Congressional Chicken is something totally different. That's not market forces, nor the economy. It's plain ego (and, in some cases, job preservation) on the part of a bunch of millionaires. It's frustrating, and just plain wrong.

I dunno about that. When I get my hours cut at Mecca, I'm pretty sure it has more to do with a train of managers up the line to Bentonville wanting to make sure they get their bonuses and keep THEIR jobs than something silly like the economy. I'm pretty sure a lot of large corporations are the same way.... more jobs are lost to ego and greed than to natural economic forces....

I think the thing that rankles me is the idea that we should for some reason feel more pity for the federal workers temporarily losing their job and paychecks than the common working man whose fate is decided by a private billionaire. Uh uh.... ain't happening. They have my sympathy, but no more than everyone else in the unemployment line does....

lb13

[Sistine Fanny]

Now that I'd probably cry about, too.

Nobody is essential......

I don't know if Buffacuse ever intends to come off as entitled as he sometimes sounds, but welcome to the real world. A place where, essential or not, your ass doesn't get paid if:

Your company can't meet payroll (it's happened to me).

They close the branch/store/location where you work (it's happened to me).

You show up for work one morning to find the doors locked and the place cleared out with a sign that essentially says, "Sorry, suckas!" (it's happened to me).

At least on the last one I ended up getting paid eventually. For a lot of people who show up to an empty and locked workplace, that's not the case.

Once the governmental types get through bitchslapping each other, everybody goes back to work and paychecks and benefits resume. It doesn't work that way for most people......

She came home crying because she loves her job and for awhile she can't do it. I don't feel entitled, and I've been on the receiving end too of shutdowns and layoffs. All I said was my wife cam home crying...for those who expressed compassion--thanks. For those who did not--thanks, also, you've made a decision I've been pondering a lot easier.

In fairness, I did say only sometimes and that I didn't think you meant to sound like that.

Here's the deal. My comment wasn't even really about your crying statement, although (if it's anything like my state's judicial branch) I'm sure if she loves to work that much they'll be more than happy to let her come volunteer and do it for free.

My comment was concerning essential. Your first post is full of vitriol because your wife who has "helped to protect our country for 25 years" is considered non-essential. My point is that nobody is essential. What does essential even mean? I could expound on that but I would probably just end up making other people cry, so I likened my examples to the 'real world' where the phrase "essential employee" isn't even in the vocabulary, using personal experiences where I was not deemed essential.

And I get the government thing. I worked in the Courts for years. If you think the Legislature is fucked up, try Judicial (even at the state level). The two have such a weird Venn diagram with each other that every tiny thing is a giant goat rope.

Yes, I've been through wage freezes, hiring freezes, furloughs, etc. etc. all while some frequent flyer is screaming that they pay our salary. And through all the bureaucratic crap that forced us to do more with fewer resources and no pay increase (a good year was 2%), I never bitched (out loud) like a lot of people because I knew that I had it a lot better than a lot of people.

Maybe it comes from upbringing. My family was poor. Not dole poor, working poor. So my perspective is different than that of others who grew up considering many things as a given and everyday that I considered a privilege or luxury.

[Sistine Fanny]

Mrs. Spiff got home yesterday afternoon from her furloughed (lockedout) position, and went to the Virginia Department of Labor to check on unemployment. They already had a special section set up for federal employees affected by the situation, got herself all the forms she needed, and is ready to rock with that if/when it comes to play (since you have to be out of work for a week, they say don't bother sending in stuff until the week has passed).

As far as the sniping about those of us in the private sector facing similar things (companies going broke, etc.), I'll remind folks that I've been on that end as well (in fact, as an accountant, I usually saw it coming -- sometimes quickly enough to bolt, sometimes not).

But to not have a job and paycheck, albeit temporarily, because a bunch of so-called adults are playing a game of Congressional Chicken is something totally different. That's not market forces, nor the economy. It's plain ego (and, in some cases, job preservation) on the part of a bunch of millionaires. It's frustrating, and just plain wrong.

I dunno about that. When I get my hours cut at Mecca, I'm pretty sure it has more to do with a train of managers up the line to Bentonville wanting to make sure they get their bonuses and keep THEIR jobs than something silly like the economy. I'm pretty sure a lot of large corporations are the same way.... more jobs are lost to ego and greed than to natural economic forces....

I think the thing that rankles me is the idea that we should for some reason feel more pity for the federal workers temporarily losing their job and paychecks than the common working man whose fate is decided by a private billionaire. Uh uh.... ain't happening. They have my sympathy, but no more than everyone else in the unemployment line does....

lb13

Thank you, my Meccan brother in common labour.

I really hate to quote crap country songs but it's different when your paycheck depends on the weather and the clock.....

[littlebeast13]

Mrs. Spiff got home yesterday afternoon from her furloughed (lockedout) position, and went to the Virginia Department of Labor to check on unemployment. They already had a special section set up for federal employees affected by the situation, got herself all the forms she needed, and is ready to rock with that if/when it comes to play (since you have to be out of work for a week, they say don't bother sending in stuff until the week has passed).

As far as the sniping about those of us in the private sector facing similar things (companies going broke, etc.), I'll remind folks that I've been on that end as well (in fact, as an accountant, I usually saw it coming -- sometimes quickly enough to bolt, sometimes not).

But to not have a job and paycheck, albeit temporarily, because a bunch of so-called adults are playing a game of Congressional Chicken is something totally different. That's not market forces, nor the economy. It's plain ego (and, in some cases, job preservation) on the part of a bunch of millionaires. It's frustrating, and just plain wrong.

I dunno about that. When I get my hours cut at Mecca, I'm pretty sure it has more to do with a train of managers up the line to Bentonville wanting to make sure they get their bonuses and keep THEIR jobs than something silly like the economy. I'm pretty sure a lot of large corporations are the same way.... more jobs are lost to ego and greed than to natural economic forces....

I think the thing that rankles me is the idea that we should for some reason feel more pity for the federal workers temporarily losing their job and paychecks than the common working man whose fate is decided by a private billionaire. Uh uh.... ain't happening. They have my sympathy, but no more than everyone else in the unemployment line does....

lb13

Thank you, my Meccan brother in common labour.

I really hate to quote crap country songs but it's different when your paycheck depends on the weather and the clock.....

I'll need to look that one up for the LSWE, well, assuming the LSWE is considered an essential game on this Bored....

lb13

[flockofseagulls104]

The blame for this shutdown, if that is the goal of this whole thing, is not on republicans or democrats, it's on us. We are to blame for the people we elect to represent us, and for letting those people accumulate so much power over us that they are not supposed to have, according to our Constitution.

If those people we elected to Congress were interested in doing what was right for the people they represent, instead of accumulating and exercising power, they would have realized there was an impasse a long time ago and figured out what to do about it and come to some kind of agreement to avoid a showdown that hurts everyone a long time ago. But instead, they wage this war using us as the targets.

As for the pain about this being shutdown or that being shut down, or who is furloughed and who is not, many of these things have no business being run by the federal government. They could, and in many cases should, be administered on the state level or lower. If one particular state gets itself in the position the Federal Government has gotten us into, the damage is limited to that state, and they can appeal to the federal government for help. When the Federal Government gets itself in trouble, there is no entity to help bail them out.

[Sistine Fanny]

She came home crying because she loves her job and for awhile she can't do it. I don't feel entitled, and I've been on the receiving end too of shutdowns and layoffs. All I said was my wife cam home crying...for those who expressed compassion--thanks. For those who did not--thanks, also, you've made a decision I've been pondering a lot easier.

I hope this doesn't mean what I think it means.

Me too.

Buff, you need to remember that we are a hugely diverse community, and not everyone will agree with or support another point or even emotional investment in situations.

Pass over what you don't like, and contribute in what you do.

I didn't take it as a flounce threat, but as that maybe he'd been on the fence as to how much of a loathsome bitch I am and had finally decided. I don't know why he'd be pondering otherwise since, even though I mostly ignore what appears to be political or disingenuous subject lines by the usual suspects, there doesn't seem to be much rancor, or much of anything else, around here. If anything, it livens up the joint!

If it was a flounce threat, take heart! If anybody would care to check my post count they'll see that I'm close to my expiration date. Then they won't have Dick Nixon to kick around anymore.....

Spoiler

W00t!!! Political references!!!!!11

[Sistine Fanny]

I dunno about that. When I get my hours cut at Mecca, I'm pretty sure it has more to do with a train of managers up the line to Bentonville wanting to make sure they get their bonuses and keep THEIR jobs than something silly like the economy. I'm pretty sure a lot of large corporations are the same way.... more jobs are lost to ego and greed than to natural economic forces....

I think the thing that rankles me is the idea that we should for some reason feel more pity for the federal workers temporarily losing their job and paychecks than the common working man whose fate is decided by a private billionaire. Uh uh.... ain't happening. They have my sympathy, but no more than everyone else in the unemployment line does....

lb13

Thank you, my Meccan brother in common labour.

I really hate to quote crap country songs but it's different when your paycheck depends on the weather and the clock.....

I'll need to look that one up for the LSWE, well, assuming the LSWE is considered an essential game on this Bored....

lb13

I bet DK knows......

Meanwhile, I hear that the LSWE this year will be totally bitchin', since it's been purported to be Fanny-less......ha!

[littlebeast13]

I hope this doesn't mean what I think it means.

Me too.

Buff, you need to remember that we are a hugely diverse community, and not everyone will agree with or support another point or even emotional investment in situations.

Pass over what you don't like, and contribute in what you do.

I didn't take it as a flounce threat, but as that maybe he'd been on the fence as to how much of a loathsome bitch I am and had finally decided. I don't know why he'd be pondering otherwise since, even though I mostly ignore what appears to be political or disingenuous subject lines by the usual suspects, there doesn't seem to be much rancor, or much of anything else, around here. If anything, it livens up the joint!

If it was a flounce threat, take heart! If anybody would care to check my post count they'll see that I'm close to my expiration date. Then they won't have Dick Nixon to kick around anymore.....

Spoiler

W00t!!! Political references!!!!!11

Expiration my ass. it's about time to commission Fanny X....

lb13

[littlebeast13]

Thank you, my Meccan brother in common labour.

I really hate to quote crap country songs but it's different when your paycheck depends on the weather and the clock.....

I'll need to look that one up for the LSWE, well, assuming the LSWE is considered an essential game on this Bored....

lb13

I bet DK knows......

Meanwhile, I hear that the LSWE this year will be totally bitchin', since it's been purported to be Fanny-less......ha!

Like I believe any of that tripe that Promo Guy and his band of fifth rate directors spits out of his sewerhole....

lb13

[Sistine Fanny]

Me too.

Buff, you need to remember that we are a hugely diverse community, and not everyone will agree with or support another point or even emotional investment in situations.

Pass over what you don't like, and contribute in what you do.

I didn't take it as a flounce threat, but as that maybe he'd been on the fence as to how much of a loathsome bitch I am and had finally decided. I don't know why he'd be pondering otherwise since, even though I mostly ignore what appears to be political or disingenuous subject lines by the usual suspects, there doesn't seem to be much rancor, or much of anything else, around here. If anything, it livens up the joint!

If it was a flounce threat, take heart! If anybody would care to check my post count they'll see that I'm close to my expiration date. Then they won't have Dick Nixon to kick around anymore.....

Spoiler

W00t!!! Political references!!!!!11

Expiration my ass. it's about time to commission Fanny X....

lb13

It is a time for martyrs now, and if I am to be one, it will be for the cause of brotherhood. That's the only thing that can save this board.

[a1mamacat]

I didn't take it as a flounce threat, but as that maybe he'd been on the fence as to how much of a loathsome bitch I am and had finally decided. I don't know why he'd be pondering otherwise since, even though I mostly ignore what appears to be political or disingenuous subject lines by the usual suspects, there doesn't seem to be much rancor, or much of anything else, around here. If anything, it livens up the joint!

If it was a flounce threat, take heart! If anybody would care to check my post count they'll see that I'm close to my expiration date. Then they won't have Dick Nixon to kick around anymore.....

Spoiler

W00t!!! Political references!!!!!11

Expiration my ass. it's about time to commission Fanny X....

lb13

It is a time for martyrs now, and if I am to be one, it will be for the cause of brotherhood. That's the only thing that can save this board.

Fanny X

LOOOOOVE it!

[Flybrick]

Only one political party being blamed here on this bored and in the media.

Not much extra sympathy being displayed for those federal workers as compared to the millions of private sector workers who have just dropped out or taken 1,2, or 3 part-time jobs.

Fabulously ironic thread.

Keep it up.

BTW, I'm furloughed as well. Thank God for savings and rainy day planning.

Both sides have to compromise, not just those danged ol' Tea Party bubbas who are doing exactly what they campaigned to do.

Our nation is broke, is spending at rates that are not sustainable, and we simply must get government spending under control.

We can discuss government overreach in a different thread.

[silverscreenselect]

Both sides have to compromise, not just those danged ol' Tea Party bubbas who are doing exactly what they campaigned to do.

Compromise does not mean bringing up existing legislation and holding the government hostage to making changes in it. If Republicans had elected to participate in the original Obamacare negotiations, they might well have gotten some of the things they want. They chose to sit it out and blame it on the Democrats.

If Republicans want to change Obamacare, they can do it the way we've changed legislation for over 200 years, by repealing or amending it. They've tried to do this and failed over 40 times. They tried to make it an issue in the 2012 elections and failed. If the Republicans had a serious alternative to Obamacare or serious reforms other than acting like Pavlov's dogs and saying everything needs to be delayed, defunded, or repealed every time someone brings up a problem, they might be taken seriously and get enough Democratic support to make some meaningful changes.

The public (other than the Tea Partiers) sees this, which is why they are overwhelmingly opposed to using the shutdown to defund or delay Obamacare.

[Bob78164]

Only one political party being blamed here on this bored and in the media.

. . . .

Our nation is broke, is spending at rates that are not sustainable, and we simply must get government spending under control.

One party is being blamed because there are enough votes in the House to end the shutdown RIGHT NOW, but Boehner won't let a clean bill come to a vote because he's afraid of the Tea Party Caucus.

You are simply mistaken about the sustainability of our spending, as evidenced by the bond markets. We should, in fact, be spending considerably more, and running bigger deficits, until unemployment comes down. But that has nothing to do with the current crisis. Democrats AGREED to Republican spending levels in the continuing resolution. --Bob

[Flybrick]

Yep, it's only this GOP majority House's fault.

It's not an equal blame for the Democrat majority Senate which I believe is the other partner in the legislative process required under the Constitution to pass federal funding.

And, when those differences occur, both Houses go to conference committee to sort it out.

If only such events had historical precedent and even procedures to sort out such issues.

And certainly the federal government has never been shut down before over major policy splits.

If by never you mean 17, that is.

Takes two to tango. Or even to sit the dance out.

The studly, in-control, cool Constitutional lawyer hanging back and scoping out all the freshman at the dance can be discussed later.

[Bob78164]

Yep, it's only this GOP majority House's fault.

It's not an equal blame for the Democrat majority Senate which I believe is the other partner in the legislative process required under the Constitution to pass federal funding.

You have failed to respond to my point. I'll state it again. There are enough votes in the House RIGHT NOW to pass a clean continuing resolution. Boehner won't bring it to a vote because he's afraid of the Tea Party Caucus. That's not leadership. It's cowardice. And that fact makes this the Republicans' fault.

The reason, by the way, we're seeing unprecedented levels of Democratic unity on this issue is because they get that President Obama is right -- if you negotiate with a gun to your head, you only encourage the other side to pull out the gun earlier next time. The Republican tactic of government by lurching from crisis to crisis has to stop, and it has to stop now. And if this keeps on for too much longer, I fully expect that the American people will bring it to a stop in 2014.

By the way, have you seen the latest Congressional polls pitting a generic Democrat against a generic Republican? --Bob

[earendel]

Only one political party being blamed here on this bored and in the media.

Not much extra sympathy being displayed for those federal workers as compared to the millions of private sector workers who have just dropped out or taken 1,2, or 3 part-time jobs.

Fabulously ironic thread.

Keep it up.

This thread is discussing the shutdown. Discussions about the "millions of private sector workers" can go in a different thread. FWIW, I do have sympathy for such people - several of my children qualify.

Both sides have to compromise, not just those danged ol' Tea Party bubbas who are doing exactly what they campaigned to do.

The next time the Tea Party caucus offers a compromise on this budget stalemate will be the first time.

[silverscreenselect]

And, when those differences occur, both Houses go to conference committee to sort it out.

The Democrats are more than willing to sort out differences in funding with the Republicans. They are not willing to use this as a back door means of repealing or stripping down an existing law. And you can bet if the Republicans win concessions now, they'll be demanding a lot more when it comes time to raise the debt ceiling. I wonder how you would feel if the Democrats tried to tie a funding measure to the passage of major new gun control legislation.

Yes, Republicans are within their rights to try this, but it subverts the Constitutional process as it's understood by the vast majority of the public. The closest thing I can recall to this was FDR's attempt to pack the Supreme Court. That didn't sit too well with the public and this isn't either.

[silverscreenselect]

The Republicans' biggest failing in regard to Obamacare was that they failed to target their attacks on the really bad aspects of the law. Instead, they have mixed valid criticism with outright distortion with problems they themselves helped cause. They have succeeded in scaring (or making nervous) a large percentage of the public.

But now the proof is in the pudding. Republicans have set the bar for Obamacare so low that any degree of success is going to make them look ridiculously silly and cost them whatever credibility they have with the general public. That's why they are in panic mode right now... not because they're worried it will fail but because they're terrified it won't.

Obama has done a good job of delaying most of the bad aspects of the bill at least until after the 2014 elections. What we will see before then is a lot of formerly uninsured people who get insurance, a lot of less well off people getting subsidies or Medicaid coverage (except in those red states that refused to go along) and a relatively few middle class people who get hit with some nasty upcharges. The issue of who's going to pay for all this or what premiums will be in 2015 and beyond won't be a factor in the next election. And if the public sees the Republicans as being the Tea Party boys who cried wolf, there will be a lot fewer of them around to fix the law in 2015.

[Flybrick]

Senate says no negotiations. Period.

And that's a legitimate position.

GOP says lets look at some stuff. And they're crazy.

Got it.

[silverscreenselect]

GOP says lets look at some stuff. And they're crazy.

Got it.

According to 72% of the public they are.

http://www.quinnipiac.edu/institutes-an ... aseID=1958

Got it.

[macrae1234]

SSS wrote

and a relatively few middle class people who get hit with some nasty upcharges.

Who are we talking about?

[silverscreenselect]

SSS wrote

and a relatively few middle class people who get hit with some nasty upcharges.

Who are we talking about?

People whose incomes are below 400% of the federal poverty level are eligible for subsidies, but once you hit 400%, you get nothing. For 2014, that is approximately $46,000 for a single person, $62,000 for a married couple, and $94,000 for a family of four. The maximum premium you can pay if you qualify for a subsidy is 9.5% of your income, so anything higher gets subsidized. So, if are a married couple age 50 with an income of $62,000, the government will pay about $3,000 of your premium for the year, and you would pay just under $5900. If, however, your income is $62,100, the government pays nothing and you pay the entire $9,000.

This website has a calculator that will tell you what you can expect to pay for coverage and how much of a subsidy you can expect for various ages, family size, and income levels.

http://kff.org/interactive/subsidy-calculator/

[macrae1234]

Does the calculator take into account the ability to purchase a pre tax health savings account which can roll over if not used, unlike flex wrap, which would allow them to adjust their deductable out of pocket max etc etc to a more favourable , less expensive plan. I am sure at that income level the benefits are better than a staggered subsidy.
I ran my son on an AZ site and got him coverage at 73 a month 6500 deductible, 12000 max out of pocket only a copay for the first PCP visits. 15 copay for generic meds.
I have also not seen anything that says you are required to keep the same coverage every year. If you have a necessary but not critical surgery required can you change to a different coverage for a year and have your surgery