Need a liberal's help

[flockofseagulls104]

People are just beginning to see what a train wreck it is and it will only get worse for all of us. And this is ALL on the dems. Not one repub voted for it, not one repub even had a say in it.

The Republicans opted out by not trying to participate in the process since none of them said they would support it under certain circumstances. And they've tried to be obstructionist every step of the way since then (over 40 votes that got them nowhere). Obamacare is a badly flawed law, but instead of trying to fix it, Republicans continue to opt out.

The problem with the line that you and Hannity spout out every chance you get is that the law is not as bad as you keep claiming since you do not understand the principles of insurance and what does and does not work (and yes, this is something I do know about). By continuing to claim the bill is a horrible disaster that's going to destroy the country, you all are coming across as increasingly desparate boys who cry wolf. And, instead of trying to fix the problems, you'll be content to sit on the sidelines as an increasingly smaller minority party proclaiming gloom and doom.

You know all about conservatives, you are the world's leading expert on the poultry industry and now you are an insurance expert. My God, man, why aren't you King instead of Obama?

[macrae1234]

THAT IS THEIR FUNCTION! It was the Senate and the Pres who REFUSED to negotiate and shut down the government.

Don't think their function was intended to be trying to blackmail the sitting government into changing a law that was passed in both houses and signed by the president. You don't like a law get the votes by election to repeal it.

[flockofseagulls104]

THAT IS THEIR FUNCTION! It was the Senate and the Pres who REFUSED to negotiate and shut down the government.

Don't think their function was intended to be trying to blackmail the sitting government into changing a law that was passed in both houses and signed by the president. You don't like a law get the votes by election to repeal it.

No use talking to someone who is already completely indoctrinated. Go take a civics class.

[macrae1234]

No use talking to someone who is already completely indoctrinated. Go take a civics class.

For someone who apparently slept thorough Civics class could you please explain congress's function as it relates to tieing passage of finance bills to defunding or modifying a duly passed law. Please feel free to include historical precedents

[BassPlayingSugarplum]

And why do you need a liberal's help to understand this? Are you trying to say conservatives aren't that bright?

[Bob Juch]

Sounds fair. I imagine many women feel exactly the same way about paying for prescription drug plans that cover Viagra.

Do any plans cover it I don't think so and I think just as many woman benefit from viagra as men

Yes, any prescription drug plan covers Viagra equally with others.

[macrae1234]

Yes, any prescription drug plan covers Viagra equally with others.

mine does not

[Bob Juch]

Fuck this.

Seriously... fuck this.

I want only what I need. I'm a selfish prick who really doesn't care about the needs of others....

lb13

Sounds fair. I imagine many women feel exactly the same way about paying for prescription drug plans that cover Viagra. --Bob

Sign me up for the Viagra-free plan as well....

If I can choose the auto insurance policy that's fits what I need, I should (theoretically, not that I'd not use the Mecca plan anyway) be able to choose the health insurance plan that best fits what I need as well. I am actually keeping an open mind about the new insurance law, but this is one component I am absolutely, positively against. And BJ can take his increased costs for someone else and stick them where the sun don't shine, because like it or not, starting a family is a choice and if you ain't willing to suck up the extra costs of having a family, you better keep the pants on, because I sure as hell don't want to subsidize you....

lb13

Please note that all states have laws that require any car owner to have auto insurance with at least a minimum coverage level. The ACA does exactly the same thing: If you have a body it must be covered.

[silverscreenselect]

The House of Reps had every right in the world to do what they did. THAT IS THEIR FUNCTION! It was the Senate and the Pres who REFUSED to negotiate and shut down the government.

They had the right. But you don't negotiate at the point of a gun where the only "concession" the other side is willing to make is not to shut down the government or have us default on our debt.

And the American public, not Obama or the Senate Democrats are the reason that those sane Republicans who are left in Congress decided to back down, probably too late to do themselves any good.

[silverscreenselect]

No use talking to someone who is already completely indoctrinated.

So says he who speaketh at the altar of Hannity.

[Bob Juch]

No use talking to someone who is already completely indoctrinated.

So says he who speaketh at the altar of Hannity.

Nah, Hannity is too liberal for him.

[BackInTex]

Basically, we're too stupid to know what we want; we're too stupid to know what we can afford. Got it.

No. But those who are going with inadequate insurance are gambling with someone else's money, because they'll end up getting the care they need while someone else pays for it as they discharge their debts in bankruptcy. --Bob

So now the government just steals others money to pay for everyone. Not much of a solution Bob.

[BackInTex]

People are just beginning to see what a train wreck it is and it will only get worse for all of us. And this is ALL on the dems. Not one repub voted for it, not one repub even had a say in it.

The Republicans opted out by not trying to participate in the process since none of them said they would support it under certain circumstances.

Socialism is a bad idea. They stood by their principles and refused to 'negotiate an acceptable socialist program'.


I'm amazed at the number of otherwise intelligent people here who think everyone should all chip in and pay for everyone's health care.

[macrae1234]

No use talking to someone who is already completely indoctrinated. Go take a civics class.

Since I guess I am not getting my Civics lesson

I am not as you say 'completely indoctrinated' quite the contrary I have a very good health care plan which is not disappearing by the way because it already contained the aforementioned requirements and like Ted Cruz I am a Canadian.
I don't put much stock in arguments that say we can't afford this program, costs will be out of control. We can't afford Iraq or Afghanistan either and do you really want to talk about their out of control costs. As opposed to blindly saying we can't afford it, socialized medecine doesn't work. Lets put the collective genius of this great country to work to prove everyone wrong like we have done before, 'they'll never recover from Pearl Harbor' was a great example. There is nothing wrong with providing basic health care to everyone in this country and it doesn't have to be the out of control financially.

[BackInTex]

Please note that all states have laws that require any car owner to have auto insurance with at least a minimum coverage level. The ACA does exactly the same thing: If you have a body it must be covered.

My body does not need coverage for pregnancy or child birth. Neither does my wife's or my mother-in-law.

Nor do they need coverage for abortions. Even if they did we'd refuse to use it, so why make us pay for it (along with everyone else's).

[MarleysGh0st]

I'm amazed at the number of otherwise intelligent people here who think everyone should all chip in and pay for everyone's health care.

Do your children go to public school, BiT?

[tlynn78]

Sounds fair. I imagine many women feel exactly the same way about paying for prescription drug plans that cover Viagra. --Bob

Sign me up for the Viagra-free plan as well....

If I can choose the auto insurance policy that's fits what I need, I should (theoretically, not that I'd not use the Mecca plan anyway) be able to choose the health insurance plan that best fits what I need as well. I am actually keeping an open mind about the new insurance law, but this is one component I am absolutely, positively against. And BJ can take his increased costs for someone else and stick them where the sun don't shine, because like it or not, starting a family is a choice and if you ain't willing to suck up the extra costs of having a family, you better keep the pants on, because I sure as hell don't want to subsidize you....

lb13

Please note that all states have laws that require any car owner to have auto insurance with at least a minimum coverage level. The ACA does exactly the same thing: If you have a body it must be covered.

I can choose not to have a car. A body, not so much.

[macrae1234]

I'm amazed at the number of otherwise intelligent people here who think everyone should all chip in and pay for everyone's health care.

For the people who don't have insurance you are paying anyway, for the people who do have insurance costs are spread out among large numbers of people. Under this plan you would save money for redistribution to other programs, no one gets tax dollars back. The uninsured would now get pre emptive care available, not go to emergency care for a minor condition and the benefit of insurance company negotiated rates.

[silverscreenselect]

Please note that all states have laws that require any car owner to have auto insurance with at least a minimum coverage level. The ACA does exactly the same thing: If you have a body it must be covered.

My body does not need coverage for pregnancy or child birth. Neither does my wife's or my mother-in-law.

Nor do they need coverage for abortions. Even if they did we'd refuse to use it, so why make us pay for it (along with everyone else's).

Because everyone who didn't need his or her hip replaced paid for yours. A la carte pricing leads to higher overall prices due to adverse selection (when coverage is optional, people don't opt for it unless they think there's a good chance they'll need it). And of course, if you and your wife and mother-in-law are allowed to opt out of maternity coverage, then whenever your daughters get around to buying their own insurance, they will pay a lot more for that coverage than they would if the total pool were larger.

[silverscreenselect]

I'm amazed at the number of otherwise intelligent people here who think everyone should all chip in and pay for everyone's health care.

That's how insurance works.

[BackInTex]

I'm amazed at the number of otherwise intelligent people here who think everyone should all chip in and pay for everyone's health care.

That's how insurance works.

No, that's how socialism works.

Insurance does not include everybody. Nor does every insurance pool include everybody.

Insurance is based on risk, analyzed risk. Costs for insurance is based on that risk. Obamacare is nothing like that.

Insurance is voluntary. Obamacare is not.

[MarleysGh0st]

Insurance is voluntary. Obamacare is not.

Do you have car insurance, BiT?

[silverscreenselect]

Insurance is voluntary. Obamacare is not.

Insurance is not the best mechanism to deal with a problem like health care. That's no surprise considering that Obamacare was originally proposed by the Republicans 20 years ago.

But I am curious what you think we should do for people who require expensive medical treatment but for whatever reason can't afford to pay for it. Keep in mind that could be your family someday too. Just let them die?

[flockofseagulls104]

No use talking to someone who is already completely indoctrinated. Go take a civics class.

For someone who apparently slept thorough Civics class could you please explain congress's function as it relates to tieing passage of finance bills to defunding or modifying a duly passed law. Please feel free to include historical precedents

How do you think the Senate got Obamacare passed after Massachusetts elected Scott Brown to stop it? Reid changed the rules and tied it to a budget reconcilaition bill that couldn't be filibustered. Or don't you remember?

The Dems have no standing on lecturing anyone on what the rules are. They make their own up as they go along.

[macrae1234]

How do you think the Senate got Obamacare passed after Massachusetts elected Scott Brown to stop it? Reid changed the rules and tied it to a budget reconcilaition bill that couldn't be filibustered. Or don't you remember?

must have back home in Canada then