Some people have no sense of irony

[Estonut]

I'm telling you that Lady de Rothschild is a certifiable racist. Presumption of innocence doesn't work here. When somebody accuses Sen. Obama of something with no evidence whatsoever (and most of the evidence actually say Sen. McCain is even worse) and injects a reference to what they "feel" about him, then they are a racist until proven otherwise.

From this, it is clear you have no sense of irony, either. Now THAT'S ironic!

Accused de Rothschild of something with no evidence whatsoever - CHECK!
Injected a reference to what you "feel" about her - CHECK!
You are a racist until proven otherwise - according to your logic, of course.

[earendel]

Frankly I don't understand Ms. deRothschild's position - Hillary Clinton is out on the hustings for Obama; surely if she is as big a Hillary supporter as she claims she might wonder why Hillary is doing this after the long and difficult campaign. I'm not suggesting that Hillary-supporters should march lockstep behind the Obama banner, but if Hillary favors Obama, why don't her supporters? Is it because Hillary is doing this only because she needs her campaign debts paid off (that would be the cynic's viewpoint)? Or maybe she really does think that Obama would be a better choice than McCain.

[peacock2121]

Way too much name calling for me in this thread.

Way too much.

[Appa23]

I caught an interview with Lynn Forester de Rothschild on CNN this morning.

Shockingly, she decided not to wear her KKK robes. She even resisted teh urge to give the White Power salute throughout the interview.

What she did do is explain some very cogent reasons, with supporting evidence, why she personally can not back Obama after backing Clinton.

[Appa23]

I'm not suggesting that Hillary-supporters should march lockstep behind the Obama banner, but if Hillary favors Obama, why don't her supporters?

Her supporters do not have aspirations of running in 2012 if Obama loses.

I would suggest that you find one of the interviews that she has done yesterday and today, if you actually want to understand the rationale why a Clinton supporter may not necessarily want to vote for Obama. (Here is a free one: she noted that McCain actually has more women working on his campaign, in higher positions, and at greater pay equity than Obama.)

I do not seem to remember Flock or BiT screaming that Susan Eisenhower has Ike turning in his grave or alleging that she has "Jungle Fever" because she is supporting Obama.

It is shocking that so many people take offense to a person deciding for himself or herself which candidate would make the best President, rather than blindly follow party designation or another person's endorsement. No wonder that people may not want to voice their honest opinion when asked.

[silverscreenselect]

It is shocking that so many people take offense to a person deciding for himself or herself which candidate would make the best President, rather than blindly follow party designation or another person's endorsement. No wonder that people may not want to voice their honest opinion when asked.

That may prove to be more of a factor in the election than people think. Many who self-identify with a political party do not want to admit to others they don't intend to vote for its candidate. And a lot of people abandoning Obama are like me people who have been strong Democrats for many years. So they just keep a low profile and make their point with the vote.

[earendel]

I caught an interview with Lynn Forester de Rothschild on CNN this morning.

Shockingly, she decided not to wear her KKK robes. She even resisted teh urge to give the White Power salute throughout the interview.

What she did do is explain some very cogent reasons, with supporting evidence, why she personally can not back Obama after backing Clinton.

And what were they? Inquiring minds want to know.

[kusch]

I caught an interview with Lynn Forester de Rothschild on CNN this morning.

Shockingly, she decided not to wear her KKK robes. She even resisted teh urge to give the White Power salute throughout the interview.

What she did do is explain some very cogent reasons, with supporting evidence, why she personally can not back Obama after backing Clinton.

And what were they? Inquiring minds want to know.

I was kinda of listening so I did not hear all but what I did hear was that she was a "centrist" and Obama, Pelosi and Reid were too far left as far as she was concerned. She also thought of Obama as an "elitist".

[JBillyGirl]

Way too much name calling for me in this thread.

Way too much.

Amen.

[frogman042]

Way too much name calling for me in this thread.

Way too much.

Only a thin-skinned weasel who, if they have even had the slightest aptitude, which in this case seems doubtful, could hold such an opinion. It is fools like you who can't see what is obvious to the more advanced members of this discussion - that this is an erudite discourse of the highest order.

Name-calling - bah - only a moron would think that that is going on!

[BackInTex]

Frankly I don't understand Ms. deRothschild's position - Hillary Clinton is out on the hustings for Obama; surely if she is as big a Hillary supporter as she claims she might wonder why Hillary is doing this after the long and difficult campaign. I'm not suggesting that Hillary-supporters should march lockstep behind the Obama banner, but if Hillary favors Obama, why don't her supporters? Is it because Hillary is doing this only because she needs her campaign debts paid off (that would be the cynic's viewpoint)? Or maybe she really does think that Obama would be a better choice than McCain.

I would suspect that most Hillary supporters who are not supporting Obama supported Hillary because of her qualities (broad meaning here to include everything from political to gender). Obama has different qualities and so does McCain. Just because Hillary now is 'supporting' Obama, it doesn't change his qualities vs. McCain's and they are using their own cognitive processes to determine what qualities they'd rather have running the country.

People who love the pizza at a particular restaurant may choose the steakhouse if that restaurant runs out of pizza even thought the cook is saying 'our pasta is better than steak'.

[earendel]

Frankly I don't understand Ms. deRothschild's position - Hillary Clinton is out on the hustings for Obama; surely if she is as big a Hillary supporter as she claims she might wonder why Hillary is doing this after the long and difficult campaign. I'm not suggesting that Hillary-supporters should march lockstep behind the Obama banner, but if Hillary favors Obama, why don't her supporters? Is it because Hillary is doing this only because she needs her campaign debts paid off (that would be the cynic's viewpoint)? Or maybe she really does think that Obama would be a better choice than McCain.

I would suspect that most Hillary supporters who are not supporting Obama supported Hillary because of her qualities (broad meaning here to include everything from political to gender). Obama has different qualities and so does McCain. Just because Hillary now is 'supporting' Obama, it doesn't change his qualities vs. McCain's and they are using their own cognitive processes to determine what qualities they'd rather have running the country.

People who love the pizza at a particular restaurant may choose the steakhouse if that restaurant runs out of pizza even thought the cook is saying 'our pasta is better than steak'.

OK, I can see that - however in terms of issues, there wasn't much of a difference between Obama and Clinton, and there is a BIG difference between Obama and McCain, and between Clinton and Palin. I don't get the "elitism" charge (one off-hand remark does not an elitist make). The only thing I can figure is it's a gender thing. Which is OK, I guess, except that it seems to me that one should support the candidate that reflects one's personal views, irrespective of gender or race.

[BackInTex]

OK, I can see that - however in terms of issues, there wasn't much of a difference between Obama and Clinton, and there is a BIG difference between Obama and McCain, and between Clinton and Palin.

There is not much difference in what each says, but there is a HUGE difference in their backgrounds, perceived qualifications, and historical positions (i.e. what did Obama say 20 years ago vs. what Clinton said 20 years ago), and perceived credibility.

[silverscreenselect]

OK, I can see that - however in terms of issues, there wasn't much of a difference between Obama and Clinton, and there is a BIG difference between Obama and McCain, and between Clinton and Palin. I don't get the "elitism" charge (one off-hand remark does not an elitist make). The only thing I can figure is it's a gender thing. Which is OK, I guess, except that it seems to me that one should support the candidate that reflects one's personal views, irrespective of gender or race.

Obama's elitism, like that of many intellectual Democrats in general, does not stem from that one comment. Politicians always try to skewer their opponent by taking a single comment out of context and claiming it accurately reflects their opponent. If that comment fits with the general public perception of the politician, the meme sticks; if not, it doesn't.

Obama's whole attitude from the grandiose speeches to the Greek temple at the Democratic convention to his laughable "attempt" at bowling, smacks of elitism. Look at descriptions of his 2000 failed Congressional run and you will see how the voters rejected him for that reason. Obama strikes a lot of people as an arrogant elitist.

John McCain doesn't, which was why he could show up at a bikers get-together in South Dakota and seemingly fit right in. Obama could never pull that off (neither could Mitt Romney). McCain for all his money doesn't come off as elitist or condescending and Obama does.

[TheConfessor]

Shockingly, she decided not to wear her KKK robes. She even resisted teh urge to give the White Power salute throughout the interview.

Serious question -- what is the "White Power salute"? I'm white and I've been around longer than you, but I've never even heard of such a thing. Where did you learn it? What does it look like? I'd hate to learn that I've done it without even knowing it.

[Appa23]

Shockingly, she decided not to wear her KKK robes. She even resisted teh urge to give the White Power salute throughout the interview.

Serious question -- what is the "White Power salute"? I'm white and I've been around longer than you, but I've never even heard of such a thing. Where did you learn it? What does it look like? I'd hate to learn that I've done it without even knowing it.

Guess that you lucked out that Nazi Germany was not in your stack of 15 questions.

[TheConfessor]

Shockingly, she decided not to wear her KKK robes. She even resisted teh urge to give the White Power salute throughout the interview.

Serious question -- what is the "White Power salute"? I'm white and I've been around longer than you, but I've never even heard of such a thing. Where did you learn it? What does it look like? I'd hate to learn that I've done it without even knowing it.

Guess that you lucked out that Nazi Germany was not in your stack of 15 questions.

If you say so, but I don't know how that's relevant. As far as I know, most Nazi violence was white on white crime. Since I'm apparently stupid, would you mind answering my question?

[peacock2121]

Shockingly, she decided not to wear her KKK robes. She even resisted teh urge to give the White Power salute throughout the interview.

Serious question -- what is the "White Power salute"? I'm white and I've been around longer than you, but I've never even heard of such a thing. Where did you learn it? What does it look like? I'd hate to learn that I've done it without even knowing it.

Guess that you lucked out that Nazi Germany was not in your stack of 15 questions.

That's a non-answer.

[peacock2121]

Serious question -- what is the "White Power salute"? I'm white and I've been around longer than you, but I've never even heard of such a thing. Where did you learn it? What does it look like? I'd hate to learn that I've done it without even knowing it.

Guess that you lucked out that Nazi Germany was not in your stack of 15 questions.

If you say so, but I don't know how that's relevant. As far as I know, most Nazi violence was white on white crime. Since I'm apparently stupid, would you mind answering my question?

LOL - cracks me up.

Ed = stupid

cracks me up.

[Appa23]

Even if you are an Obama supporter, like Earendel, does anyone actually believe that the "clinging to guns and religion" speech was just an "off-hand remark"?

Earendel, for other famous evidence supporting the "elitist" charge, try Googling "Obama arugula" or "Obama Spanish Ham".

The political reality is neither Obama or Biden have shown so far any ability to connect with the "common man". Reference back to the "Angry White (Wo)Man" thread.

There are several weeks to go, and probably at least three more twists or "major events" that will occur by the end of the debates. I am looking forward to watching how these things unfold and arm-chair "directing" the campaigns.

[Appa23]

Serious question -- what is the "White Power salute"? I'm white and I've been around longer than you, but I've never even heard of such a thing. Where did you learn it? What does it look like? I'd hate to learn that I've done it without even knowing it.

Guess that you lucked out that Nazi Germany was not in your stack of 15 questions.

If you say so, but I don't know how that's relevant. As far as I know, most Nazi violence was white on white crime. Since I'm apparently stupid, would you mind answering my question?

I would never call you stupid.

However, I can not figure out if you are playing like you don't know that white supremacists use the Nazi salute.

[TheConfessor]

Guess that you lucked out that Nazi Germany was not in your stack of 15 questions.

If you say so, but I don't know how that's relevant. As far as I know, most Nazi violence was white on white crime. Since I'm apparently stupid, would you mind answering my question?

I would never call you stupid. However, I can not figure out if you are playing like you don't know that white supremacists use the Nazi salute.

As I already stated, I had never heard the term "White Power salute," and I did not know what you were talking about. I have heard of the gesture used by John Carlos and Tommie Smith at the 1968 Olympics referred to as a "Black Power salute," but I was not aware of a corresponding gesture for "White Power" until you suggested that one exists. I have seen Nazi salutes in movies, but I have never heard that called a "White Power salute." I don't personally know any white supremacists and don't know much about their rituals. I'm aware that some of them have adopted swastikas and other symbols of Nazi Germany, including occasional Nazi salutes and maybe a little goose stepping on Saturday nights. I'm not aware of a swastika being called a "White Power Symbol" or a Nazi salute being called a "White Power salute." Maybe I just need to get out of the house more often.

[earendel]

Even if you are an Obama supporter, like Earendel, does anyone actually believe that the "clinging to guns and religion" speech was just an "off-hand remark"?

I am not an Obama supporter. I just happen to think that the Democratic party is more closely aligned to the issues that I consider important.

Earendel, for other famous evidence supporting the "elitist" charge, try Googling "Obama arugula" or "Obama Spanish Ham".

Regarding the arugula:

http://mediamatters.org/items/200709240012

From what I read Obama hardly sounds like the elitist that some have tried to portray him.

And with respect to the Spanish ham:

http://www.philly.com/philly/hp/news_up ... _time.html

He was offered some expensive ham and he sampled it. If someone offered it to me, I'd try it, too. Heck, on "I Survived a Japanese Game Show" the winners in one round were offered the world's most expensive tuna. Doesn't make them elitists because they ate it.

Seems to me like this "elitist" charge is a tempest in a teapot.