Why Obama won't be asked to join Mensa

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silverscreenselect
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#26 Post by silverscreenselect » Sun Jun 15, 2008 4:27 am

BackInTex wrote: I'm unconcerned with the millionaires. I'm concerned with the government trying to be everyone's parents. I'm concerned with Obama's solution of taking from the rich and giving to the poor. Many governament forms have tried that in the past and this country has historically tried to eliminate them.
BiT obviously feels better when government "gives" to the well connected like Blackwater.

All government spending is redirection of money from one group to another. The question is whether our country is better off when millions of our citizens whose labor has contributed to the well-off amassing their fortunes are not reduced to destitution in their old age. Or perhaps they merely become a burden on their own children reducing them to destitution as well.

No one is getting rich off social security. In the vast majority of cases, people receiving benefits have worked hard for thirty, forty, and in some cases fifty years.

The reason that prosperous societies like ours become prosperous is not the presence of a handful of very rich people. Third world countries have some extremely wealthy people. It's the presence of a growing and thriving middle class that doesn't spend all its time eking out an existence and scraping by on the shoddy bare essentials. It's a lot easier to sell cars one at a time to a lot of people rather than a hundred at a time to one very wealthy person.

The way our society works, those who have concentrated wealth in the form of capital have inherently more bargaining power than those whose "wealth" consists of their labor capacity. Workers have contributed to our country's wealth far out of proportion to the monetary rewards they have received for their efforts.

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Re: Why Obama won't be asked to join Mensa

#27 Post by silverscreenselect » Sun Jun 15, 2008 4:43 am

Spock wrote:If Obama is not a Marxist-what is the difference in the policies that he actually espouses versus the ones he would espouse if he were a Marxist?
One, my own view is that Obama tosses out ideas to audiences whenever convenient in order to impress the audience of the moment. I doubt he has the same level of commitment to progressive principles as many Democrats do.

Two, the idea of raising taxes in some form to keep Social Security afloat is not Marxist. There have never been any successful Marxist politicians in this or, as far as I know, any country. They may espouse some radical form of socialism in order to get elected, but whatever policies eventually emerge are moderate at best.

Calling Obama a Marxist may shore up the Republican base this fall, but it is a very risky strategy. Most people can see that the Bush economic plan by which the wealthy benefit in two ways, by massive tax cuts and pet pork barrel spending projects, while the rest of this country is more prone to layoff and disaster, is not working. This is why Democrats are poised to pick up several Senate seats and another ten to twenty House seats. A generic Democrat outpolls a generic Republican by fourteen points, which is how the Republicans lost House seats in LA and MS.

If the Republicans want an Obama presidency, all they need to do is keep arguing to the independents and conservative Democrats whose votes they need that Obama is a Marxist. Frankly, it's the equivalent nowadays of calling a political opponent a Nazi. Unless it can be documented (and college theses are not documentation), it falls on deaf ears and also causes listeners to reject the rest of your arguments, no matter how valid they are.

Obama would be a bad president for many reasons, but a proposal to raise social security taxes on the wealthy (even if he actually intends to follow through on this, which I doubt) is not one of them, and, more importantly, it's not a way for Republicans to defeat him in the general election.

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#28 Post by BigDrawMan » Sun Jun 15, 2008 11:51 am

BackInTex wrote:
BigDrawMan wrote:I forgot to say how touched I was by BiT's concern for the financial well being of the millionaire club.A noble and selfless sentiment I heartily applaud.

clapclap


iirc, when I studied the SS issue back in the 80's, the high wage earner retirees then recouped all the coin they contributed plus interest in 3 years.Middle earners got it back in 6ish.

Maybe if the GOP calls the shots for SS reform, and keeps the cap at 92,500ish, BiT will volunteer to pick up the slack.

Those who vote against their economic self interest are the bedrock of the GOP.
Go to West Virginia and see for yourselves.
I'm unconcerned with the millionaires. I'm concerned with the government trying to be everyone's parents. I'm concerned with Obama's solution of taking from the rich and giving to the poor. Many governament forms have tried that in the past and this country has historically tried to eliminate them.

If this is such a good deal as Bob is trying to make it, I kinda peeved Obama is leaving me out. Why are the poor and the rich getting all the good deals?
A. I see by your characterization of Obama as a Marxist/Socialist that you are listening to Rush Limbaugh again. The last time I heard you quoting Rush you denied being a listener. Stop listening to him, he is beneath you.

B. If you are not concerned about those making over 250K, why bring it up?

C. The bigger danger to our country's well being is corporations/citizens using the government to extort money from the taxpayers. Like the Texas Rangers/Dubya's stadium deal, Dan Burton's Medicare drug plan, Ross Perot's private airport and medicare processing deals in Texas and I am sure you can name a couple of dozen more without even thinking.

To sum up, the amount of money sucked from the taxpayers in these political deals far exceeds the money taken by "taxes on the rich".

We are becoming a Banana Republic where poltical connections are the key to wealth. Are you upset about that too?
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#29 Post by wintergreen48 » Sun Jun 15, 2008 12:21 pm

BigDrawMan wrote:I forgot to say how touched I was by BiT's concern for the financial well being of the millionaire club.A noble and selfless sentiment I heartily applaud.

clapclap


iirc, when I studied the SS issue back in the 80's, the high wage earner retirees then recouped all the coin they contributed plus interest in 3 years.Middle earners got it back in 6ish.

Maybe if the GOP calls the shots for SS reform, and keeps the cap at 92,500ish, BiT will volunteer to pick up the slack.

Those who vote against their economic self interest are the bedrock of the GOP.
Go to West Virginia and see for yourselves.
Um, this puzzles me...

I assume that the point is that West Virginia is some backwater place that is an economic cesspool, due to its loyalty to the GOP, but, well, both of its US Senators are Democrats, two of its three members of the House of Representatives are Democrats, their Governor is a Democrat, 23 out of 34 state senators are Democrats, and 72 out of 100 members of the state House of Delegates are Democrats. If that makes it a place of bedrock support for the GOP, well, I'd hate to see how they would do in a place that supports Democrats...

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#30 Post by Beebs52 » Sun Jun 15, 2008 4:43 pm

wintergreen48 wrote:
BigDrawMan wrote:I forgot to say how touched I was by BiT's concern for the financial well being of the millionaire club.A noble and selfless sentiment I heartily applaud.

clapclap


iirc, when I studied the SS issue back in the 80's, the high wage earner retirees then recouped all the coin they contributed plus interest in 3 years.Middle earners got it back in 6ish.

Maybe if the GOP calls the shots for SS reform, and keeps the cap at 92,500ish, BiT will volunteer to pick up the slack.

Those who vote against their economic self interest are the bedrock of the GOP.
Go to West Virginia and see for yourselves.
Um, this puzzles me...

I assume that the point is that West Virginia is some backwater place that is an economic cesspool, due to its loyalty to the GOP, but, well, both of its US Senators are Democrats, two of its three members of the House of Representatives are Democrats, their Governor is a Democrat, 23 out of 34 state senators are Democrats, and 72 out of 100 members of the state House of Delegates are Democrats. If that makes it a place of bedrock support for the GOP, well, I'd hate to see how they would do in a place that supports Democrats...
While I am traditionally a GOP'er, I'm beholden to no one lately. I've seen the local political manipulation and I do believe that "arrangements" rule.

With that being said, I do so want to see a Wintergreen smackdown with Beedums. It will be fun. And, they're both reasoned intellectuals so it won't devolve into the usual hogwallow. Maybe. On one side, at least.

Off to the concert! See ya!
Well, then

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#31 Post by BigDrawMan » Sun Jun 15, 2008 8:56 pm

West Virginians voted for Bush twice, though his economic policies and those of the GOP go against the self interests of it's citizens.This kind of thing is happening in PA as well.The poorer the county, the bigger the Bush win in the last two elections.
This puzzles me no end.

W VA is not "a" backwater. it is "our" backwater/whipping boy.Until it is again Clevelands turn in the fall.

If the coal companies keep decapitating the mountains and raping the land down there, the state will be an Official Cesspool

If it werent for Robert Byrd moving large chunks of the federal government to W Va,they would be in even sorrier shape.
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#32 Post by BigDrawMan » Sun Jun 15, 2008 9:08 pm

This story is a good illustration of why West Virginia is so good at being West Virginia.

The Governors hot daughter is the COO of Mylan Labs.She started as a data entry clerk.She earned aboout half the credits needed for her MBA from WVU.It was granted to her, though she dint finish or pay for the remainder of her credits nor was on track to graduate when she dropped out.The President of W VA is a longtime family friend, who was a lobbyist for Mylan Labs, and reported directly to hot daughter.The founder/chairman of Mylan is WVU's biggest donor.The football stadium is named for him. I'll spare yins the rest of the incestuous connections.


Dick Cheney's joke about his convuluted family tree and West Virginia wasnt literally true, but it does symbolize how things are done down there.

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#33 Post by Beebs52 » Sun Jun 15, 2008 9:18 pm

BigDrawMan wrote:This story is a good illustration of why West Virginia is so good at being West Virginia.

The Governors hot daughter is the COO of Mylan Labs.She started as a data entry clerk.She earned aboout half the credits needed for her MBA from WVU.It was granted to her, though she dint finish or pay for the remainder of her credits nor was on track to graduate when she dropped out.The President of W VA is a longtime family friend, who was a lobbyist for Mylan Labs, and reported directly to hot daughter.The founder/chairman of Mylan is WVU's biggest donor.The football stadium is named for him. I'll spare yins the rest of the incestuous connections.


Dick Cheney's joke about his convuluted family tree and West Virginia wasnt literally true, but it does symbolize how things are done down there.
I am totally not in the loop about WVA politics or crap that's going on. Byrd? Why would you use him as any sort of paragon of anything?

Anyway, the daughter thing with Mylan Labs blah blah blah is representative of goings on everywhere. Everywhere. I would bet you dollars to doughnuts that even Democrats do this sort of thing. It is a zit on the chin of nothing. I can raise you incestuous connections and call the question, including the Demos and Repubs.

Ain't flying.
Well, then

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#34 Post by Bob Juch » Sun Jun 15, 2008 9:24 pm

Beebs52 wrote:I am totally not in the loop about WVA politics or crap that's going on. Byrd? Why would you use him as any sort of paragon of anything?

Anyway, the daughter thing with Mylan Labs blah blah blah is representative of goings on everywhere. Everywhere. I would bet you dollars to doughnuts that even Democrats do this sort of thing. It is a zit on the chin of nothing. I can raise you incestuous connections and call the question, including the Demos and Repubs.

Ain't flying.
Those folks are Democrats.
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#35 Post by BigDrawMan » Sun Jun 15, 2008 9:29 pm

Beebs52 wrote:
BigDrawMan wrote:This story is a good illustration of why West Virginia is so good at being West Virginia.

The Governors hot daughter is the COO of Mylan Labs.She started as a data entry clerk.She earned aboout half the credits needed for her MBA from WVU.It was granted to her, though she dint finish or pay for the remainder of her credits nor was on track to graduate when she dropped out.The President of W VA is a longtime family friend, who was a lobbyist for Mylan Labs, and reported directly to hot daughter.The founder/chairman of Mylan is WVU's biggest donor.The football stadium is named for him. I'll spare yins the rest of the incestuous connections.


Dick Cheney's joke about his convuluted family tree and West Virginia wasnt literally true, but it does symbolize how things are done down there.
I am totally not in the loop about WVA politics or crap that's going on. Byrd? Why would you use him as any sort of paragon of anything?

Anyway, the daughter thing with Mylan Labs blah blah blah is representative of goings on everywhere. Everywhere. I would bet you dollars to doughnuts that even Democrats do this sort of thing. It is a zit on the chin of nothing. I can raise you incestuous connections and call the question, including the Demos and Repubs.

Ain't flying.
-----------------
it is so flying.
The gov is a democrat, and was head of the search committee that hired the Prez.

I was speaking of the incestuous nature of politics and bizness in W VA.They do not even try to hide these deals.The Prez of WVU was flummoxed by the criticism, and refused to resign until out of state donors started to withhold money.
The in and out migration in the state is extremely low,that coupled with their cesspools make fertile soil for such things to grow.

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#36 Post by Beebs52 » Sun Jun 15, 2008 9:30 pm

Bob Juch wrote:
Beebs52 wrote:I am totally not in the loop about WVA politics or crap that's going on. Byrd? Why would you use him as any sort of paragon of anything?

Anyway, the daughter thing with Mylan Labs blah blah blah is representative of goings on everywhere. Everywhere. I would bet you dollars to doughnuts that even Democrats do this sort of thing. It is a zit on the chin of nothing. I can raise you incestuous connections and call the question, including the Demos and Repubs.

Ain't flying.
Those folks are Democrats.
Well, right you are. I guess I don't understand the thrust of the postings then.
Well, then

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#37 Post by Beebs52 » Sun Jun 15, 2008 9:34 pm

BigDrawMan wrote:
Beebs52 wrote:
BigDrawMan wrote:This story is a good illustration of why West Virginia is so good at being West Virginia.

The Governors hot daughter is the COO of Mylan Labs.She started as a data entry clerk.She earned aboout half the credits needed for her MBA from WVU.It was granted to her, though she dint finish or pay for the remainder of her credits nor was on track to graduate when she dropped out.The President of W VA is a longtime family friend, who was a lobbyist for Mylan Labs, and reported directly to hot daughter.The founder/chairman of Mylan is WVU's biggest donor.The football stadium is named for him. I'll spare yins the rest of the incestuous connections.


Dick Cheney's joke about his convuluted family tree and West Virginia wasnt literally true, but it does symbolize how things are done down there.
I am totally not in the loop about WVA politics or crap that's going on. Byrd? Why would you use him as any sort of paragon of anything?

Anyway, the daughter thing with Mylan Labs blah blah blah is representative of goings on everywhere. Everywhere. I would bet you dollars to doughnuts that even Democrats do this sort of thing. It is a zit on the chin of nothing. I can raise you incestuous connections and call the question, including the Demos and Repubs.

Ain't flying.
-----------------
it is so flying.
The gov is a democrat, and was head of the search committee that hired the Prez.

I was speaking of the incestuous nature of politics and bizness in W VA.They do not even try to hide these deals.The Prez of WVU was flummoxed by the criticism, and refused to resign until out of state donors started to withhold money.
The in and out migration in the state is extremely low,that coupled with their cesspools make fertile soil for such things to grow.
I guess this is a good example of people not having any particular frame of reference politicswise then, right? And it isn't restricted to WVA, based on what I've seen around here. I apparently am not getting what you're trying to say. Other than the incestuousness of politics, which is not news.

And when I say "around here" I mean around my area, not the bored. I'm totally disgusted with the PTB.
Last edited by Beebs52 on Sun Jun 15, 2008 9:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Well, then

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#38 Post by BigDrawMan » Sun Jun 15, 2008 9:48 pm

I guess this is a good example of people not having any particular frame of reference politicswise then, right? And it isn't restricted to WVA, based on what I've seen around here.
----------------
It happens here as well, but our greedheads try to hide their deeds out of shame, and some blow their heads off when caught.


I apparently am not getting what you're trying to say. Other than the incestuousness of politics, which is not news.[/quote]


------------

I switched gears from :Why the Hell did working class people vote for Bush twice when it was not in their self interst to do so

to

commenting on wintergreens(i Thought he was getting a manlier handle??) post about W Va and its cesspooliness.

being clear requires more typing.

"some" of us cant type 127 words a minute, ya know.1

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#39 Post by Beebs52 » Sun Jun 15, 2008 9:51 pm

BigDrawMan wrote:I guess this is a good example of people not having any particular frame of reference politicswise then, right? And it isn't restricted to WVA, based on what I've seen around here.
----------------
It happens here as well, but our greedheads try to hide their deeds out of shame, and some blow their heads off when caught.


I apparently am not getting what you're trying to say. Other than the incestuousness of politics, which is not news.



------------

I switched gears from :Why the Hell did working class people vote for Bush twice when it was not in their self interst to do so

to

commenting on wintergreens(i Thought he was getting a manlier handle??) post about W Va and its cesspooliness.

being clear requires more typing.

"some" of us cant type 127 words a minute, ya know.1[/quote]

I gotcha. Self interest nationally is a whole other discussion-no Demo is going to represent my self interest that I can see, so far, nor have they ever. Nor Repub, particularly.

I shall remain out of the WVA discussion since as how it ain't Texas, which I could blather about.
Well, then

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#40 Post by BackInTex » Mon Jun 16, 2008 6:03 am

BigDrawMan wrote:A. I see by your characterization of Obama as a Marxist/Socialist that you are listening to Rush Limbaugh again. The last time I heard you quoting Rush you denied being a listener. Stop listening to him, he is beneath you.
If you think Rush is the only person on radio calling Obama's politics Marxist, you have your head somewhere it shouldn't be.
BigDrawMan wrote: B. If you are not concerned about those making over 250K, why bring it up?
Those making over 250K a year are the ones that employe 98% of those earning less than 80K. You can't care for one without caring for the other. Its like nature's ecosystem. Its a shame the liberals who worry about enviromental stuff and extinction of species don't worry about the extinction of the employer species.

BigDrawMan wrote: C. The bigger danger to our country's well being is corporations/citizens using the government to extort money from the taxpayers. Like the Texas Rangers/Dubya's stadium deal, Dan Burton's Medicare drug plan, Ross Perot's private airport and medicare processing deals in Texas and I am sure you can name a couple of dozen more without even thinking.

To sum up, the amount of money sucked from the taxpayers in these political deals far exceeds the money taken by "taxes on the rich".

We are becoming a Banana Republic where poltical connections are the key to wealth. Are you upset about that too?
I will agree with you here, but you don't try to solve a problem of corruption by taxing legitimate acheivers. Well, when I say 'you' I'm talking about a proper form of democratic capitalistic government. Apparently a Marxist government solves the problem this way (which really doesn't solve it, but legalizes the corruption while criminalizing the acheivment).
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#41 Post by BigDrawMan » Tue Jun 17, 2008 9:35 pm

aha!!

I knew bit was still listening to Rush.

They must have fabu courses in economics and political science at the Columbia School of Broadcasting.
That guy is sharp.

Is Glenn Beck using the same phrases as Rush?
I hear they were classmates.

How about Sean and Bill and Doc Savage?

If i were in charge of sending them 'talking points", I would change up the phraseology a bit.
You can hear the echo.

marxistsocialist
marxistsocialist
middlenameishussein
middlenameishussein

Rush was a top 40 dj here in the 70's.

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