Re: It's cold
Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2021 3:27 pm
It's a balmy 28 up in these parts today. Grand and I had fun blowing bubbles and watching them shatter this weekend. Stay warm and dry, my southern peeps
There are a lot of folks ready with torches, pitchforks, tar and feathers here. I keep telling them to cool it (maybe not the best term ). We lost power 2 maybe 3 days during this 100 year event. We had similar issues 10 years ago. So I tell everyone, we CAN have a "no fail" grid but it would be very expensive. Generation capacity would need to be built to handle the max load but would go unused 95% of the time. We could weatherproof the plants like they are up north, and expensive proposition, so they operate during for those 2-3 days every 10 years or so. We would pay for all that "insurance" every day every year.mrkelley23 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 2:50 pmCan't tell without more context, but that looks like summertime capacity and sales. I think the numbers may be different in the winter and on average, but I could be wrong. I did find this link from Bloomberg about causes and effects. Yes, it's Bloomberg, but they provide a direct quote from someone from Texas who sounds like he ought to know.BackInTex wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 3:40 amJust looked at this site
Texas generation capacity (and consumption) of 483 million Mwh eclipses 2nd place FL producing 245 million Mwh. Third place PA produces 228 million Mwh, almost 60% more than they consume.
I can only assume Texas' petrochemical industry is the primary reason we consume so much more than others (71% more than CA).
CA looks like they have to rely on other states for 25% of their need.
Last night's episode is next up on my TiVo queue.SpacemanSpiff wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 2:53 pmI suppose this is a poor time to bingewatch Snowpiercer.
I’ll put money on the goldfish, bb. Some years back we had a goldfish in a water trough that was down to about 3 inches frozen solid at the bottom. I could have lost big money if someone had offered to bet me that the son of a gun would end up surviving.Beebs52 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 1:52 pmSome observations
I don't have winter pajamas. Who knew?
When there is no ambient light it is PITCH BLACK. I stopped reading my Kindle and leaned back, closed my eyes, then opened them and thought "Did I have a stroke?" Then Jeff came into the room with spelunker lights and allayed my fears. Greg et al's power is still off, plus water. He had the same scary reaction I did, except his was punctuated by bursting pipes...they live in Spring. They are over here now.
The goldfish in the outside fountain are certainly croaked. Three inches of ice.
Battery radio great until certain peeps play Pink Floyd by candlelight while doing crossword puzzles.
The water is so thick it may provide a barrier...they've been hardy.wbtravis007 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 4:47 pmI’ll put money on the goldfish, bb. Some years back we had a goldfish in a water trough that was down to about 3 inches frozen solid at the bottom. I could have lost big money if someone had offered to bet me that the son of a gun would end up surviving.Beebs52 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 1:52 pmSome observations
I don't have winter pajamas. Who knew?
When there is no ambient light it is PITCH BLACK. I stopped reading my Kindle and leaned back, closed my eyes, then opened them and thought "Did I have a stroke?" Then Jeff came into the room with spelunker lights and allayed my fears. Greg et al's power is still off, plus water. He had the same scary reaction I did, except his was punctuated by bursting pipes...they live in Spring. They are over here now.
The goldfish in the outside fountain are certainly croaked. Three inches of ice.
Battery radio great until certain peeps play Pink Floyd by candlelight while doing crossword puzzles.
Well, it was -20 here at the time, so your results may vary...
I bet there is a strong correlation between those ready with the tar and feathers now and those who have previously laughed at anybody who has their own back-up generator. I am very happy that we have a commercial generator for business reasons.BackInTex wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 3:41 pmThere are a lot of folks ready with torches, pitchforks, tar and feathers here. I keep telling them to cool it (maybe not the best term ). We lost power 2 maybe 3 days during this 100 year event. We had similar issues 10 years ago. So I tell everyone, we CAN have a "no fail" grid but it would be very expensive. Generation capacity would need to be built to handle the max load but would go unused 95% of the time. We could weatherproof the plants like they are up north, and expensive proposition, so they operate during for those 2-3 days every 10 years or so. We would pay for all that "insurance" every day every year.mrkelley23 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 2:50 pmCan't tell without more context, but that looks like summertime capacity and sales. I think the numbers may be different in the winter and on average, but I could be wrong. I did find this link from Bloomberg about causes and effects. Yes, it's Bloomberg, but they provide a direct quote from someone from Texas who sounds like he ought to know.BackInTex wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 3:40 amJust looked at this site
Texas generation capacity (and consumption) of 483 million Mwh eclipses 2nd place FL producing 245 million Mwh. Third place PA produces 228 million Mwh, almost 60% more than they consume.
I can only assume Texas' petrochemical industry is the primary reason we consume so much more than others (71% more than CA).
CA looks like they have to rely on other states for 25% of their need.
The bottom line is the system doesn't work perfectly 2-3 days every 5-10 years. That's pretty good. Better than most things in life.
We had a koi pond at our high school for a while, as well as a ... let's kindly call her uninformed, animal lover custodian. She used to call downtown and report our biology teacher (also our department chair) for not taking care of his snakes to her standards. One winter we got a bad cold snap and the koi pond froze over. As wb said, goldfish and koi can often live through a severe freeze, even if it freezes nearly all solid. Our custodian, horrified at the frozen water, took a shovel out and beat on the surface of the frozen water to try to break the ice up.wbtravis007 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 4:47 pmI’ll put money on the goldfish, bb. Some years back we had a goldfish in a water trough that was down to about 3 inches frozen solid at the bottom. I could have lost big money if someone had offered to bet me that the son of a gun would end up surviving.Beebs52 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 1:52 pmSome observations
I don't have winter pajamas. Who knew?
When there is no ambient light it is PITCH BLACK. I stopped reading my Kindle and leaned back, closed my eyes, then opened them and thought "Did I have a stroke?" Then Jeff came into the room with spelunker lights and allayed my fears. Greg et al's power is still off, plus water. He had the same scary reaction I did, except his was punctuated by bursting pipes...they live in Spring. They are over here now.
The goldfish in the outside fountain are certainly croaked. Three inches of ice.
Battery radio great until certain peeps play Pink Floyd by candlelight while doing crossword puzzles.
One of the science oddities I like to teach every year is the strange behavior of water near its freezing point. From the boiling point down to about 4 degrees Celsius, water becomes more dense the cooler it gets, like most liquids. But between 4 degrees (about 39 Fahrenheit) and 0 Celsius, water actually gets MORE dense the cooler it gets. What that means is that the denser water sinks to the bottom until the whole place is 4 degrees, then and only then does the top surface start to freeze. After that, the ice provides an insulating effect on the water below. So even a goldfish pond that looks frozen completely solid probably isn't. And the fish just slow their metabolism with the temperature, so they're usually fine.Beebs52 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 4:55 pmThe water is so thick it may provide a barrier...they've been hardy.wbtravis007 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 4:47 pmI’ll put money on the goldfish, bb. Some years back we had a goldfish in a water trough that was down to about 3 inches frozen solid at the bottom. I could have lost big money if someone had offered to bet me that the son of a gun would end up surviving.Beebs52 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 1:52 pmSome observations
I don't have winter pajamas. Who knew?
When there is no ambient light it is PITCH BLACK. I stopped reading my Kindle and leaned back, closed my eyes, then opened them and thought "Did I have a stroke?" Then Jeff came into the room with spelunker lights and allayed my fears. Greg et al's power is still off, plus water. He had the same scary reaction I did, except his was punctuated by bursting pipes...they live in Spring. They are over here now.
The goldfish in the outside fountain are certainly croaked. Three inches of ice.
Battery radio great until certain peeps play Pink Floyd by candlelight while doing crossword puzzles.
Texas's state energy folks say that wind turbines have actually exceeded expectations, and that iced-over turbines are the least significant reason for the problem. Low gas pressure seems to be the biggest contributor, followed by iced over controls at gas and coal plants. Blaming wind energy is a right-wing propaganda stunt.mrkelley23 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 15, 2021 10:57 pmI just reposted an interesting post from a friend of mine on FB. I hadn't realized that Texas had basically divorced themselves from the national power grid. And in addition to the frozen turbines, solar panels don't work well when iced over, and gas lines are freezing all over the place. I hope it warms up soon there for all y'all.BackInTex wrote: ↑Mon Feb 15, 2021 12:10 pm23% of Texas' power generation is from wind.
As of Sunday morning 48% of the turbines in Texas are inoperable because of icing. Probably more than 48% now.
Added to that, winter is when a lot of excess generating capacity (gas turbine and coal units) is taken offline for preventative maintenance. So that generating capacity is unavailable in the short term.
All my electricity comes from wind turbines.Bob78164 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 7:12 pmTexas's state energy folks say that wind turbines have actually exceeded expectations, and that iced-over turbines are the least significant reason for the problem. Low gas pressure seems to be the biggest contributor, followed by iced over controls at gas and coal plants. Blaming wind energy is a right-wing propaganda stunt.mrkelley23 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 15, 2021 10:57 pmI just reposted an interesting post from a friend of mine on FB. I hadn't realized that Texas had basically divorced themselves from the national power grid. And in addition to the frozen turbines, solar panels don't work well when iced over, and gas lines are freezing all over the place. I hope it warms up soon there for all y'all.BackInTex wrote: ↑Mon Feb 15, 2021 12:10 pm23% of Texas' power generation is from wind.
As of Sunday morning 48% of the turbines in Texas are inoperable because of icing. Probably more than 48% now.
Added to that, winter is when a lot of excess generating capacity (gas turbine and coal units) is taken offline for preventative maintenance. So that generating capacity is unavailable in the short term.
That's actually obvious once you think about it and do a little research. Iowa uses a lot of wind energy. So does Denmark. Neither of those locations are known for warm, toasty winters, but they seem to be doing just fine. --Bob
mrkelley23 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 5:58 pmOne of the science oddities I like to teach every year is the strange behavior of water near its freezing point. From the boiling point down to about 4 degrees Celsius, water becomes more dense the cooler it gets, like most liquids. But between 4 degrees (about 39 Fahrenheit) and 0 Celsius, water actually gets MORE dense the cooler it gets. What that means is that the denser water sinks to the bottom until the whole place is 4 degrees, then and only then does the top surface start to freeze. After that, the ice provides an insulating effect on the water below. So even a goldfish pond that looks frozen completely solid probably isn't. And the fish just slow their metabolism with the temperature, so they're usually fine.Beebs52 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 4:55 pmThe water is so thick it may provide a barrier...they've been hardy.wbtravis007 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 4:47 pm
I’ll put money on the goldfish, bb. Some years back we had a goldfish in a water trough that was down to about 3 inches frozen solid at the bottom. I could have lost big money if someone had offered to bet me that the son of a gun would end up surviving.
Just hope it's not Ice 9.wbtravis007 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 7:46 pmmrkelley23 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 5:58 pmOne of the science oddities I like to teach every year is the strange behavior of water near its freezing point. From the boiling point down to about 4 degrees Celsius, water becomes more dense the cooler it gets, like most liquids. But between 4 degrees (about 39 Fahrenheit) and 0 Celsius, water actually gets MORE dense the cooler it gets. What that means is that the denser water sinks to the bottom until the whole place is 4 degrees, then and only then does the top surface start to freeze. After that, the ice provides an insulating effect on the water below. So even a goldfish pond that looks frozen completely solid probably isn't. And the fish just slow their metabolism with the temperature, so they're usually fine.
Veddy interesting. Thanks for posting this. Learn something new every day.
In the situation I described I’m almost positive that the dang thing was in solid ice. No water involved at at. Like I said: I could’ve lost a lot of money.
Spock wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 5:51 pmI bet there is a strong correlation between those ready with the tar and feathers now and those who have previously laughed at anybody who has their own back-up generator. I am very happy that we have a commercial generator for business reasons.BackInTex wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 3:41 pmThere are a lot of folks ready with torches, pitchforks, tar and feathers here. I keep telling them to cool it (maybe not the best term ). We lost power 2 maybe 3 days during this 100 year event. We had similar issues 10 years ago. So I tell everyone, we CAN have a "no fail" grid but it would be very expensive. Generation capacity would need to be built to handle the max load but would go unused 95% of the time. We could weatherproof the plants like they are up north, and expensive proposition, so they operate during for those 2-3 days every 10 years or so. We would pay for all that "insurance" every day every year.mrkelley23 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 2:50 pm
Can't tell without more context, but that looks like summertime capacity and sales. I think the numbers may be different in the winter and on average, but I could be wrong. I did find this link from Bloomberg about causes and effects. Yes, it's Bloomberg, but they provide a direct quote from someone from Texas who sounds like he ought to know.
The bottom line is the system doesn't work perfectly 2-3 days every 5-10 years. That's pretty good. Better than most things in life.
"Texas" can happen here on the northern plains, but it would be 40 degrees colder (or more).
Thanks Bob! For making this political. You're making good choices little boy!Bob78164 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 7:12 pmTexas's state energy folks say that wind turbines have actually exceeded expectations, and that iced-over turbines are the least significant reason for the problem. Low gas pressure seems to be the biggest contributor, followed by iced over controls at gas and coal plants. Blaming wind energy is a right-wing propaganda stunt.mrkelley23 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 15, 2021 10:57 pmI just reposted an interesting post from a friend of mine on FB. I hadn't realized that Texas had basically divorced themselves from the national power grid. And in addition to the frozen turbines, solar panels don't work well when iced over, and gas lines are freezing all over the place. I hope it warms up soon there for all y'all.BackInTex wrote: ↑Mon Feb 15, 2021 12:10 pm23% of Texas' power generation is from wind.
As of Sunday morning 48% of the turbines in Texas are inoperable because of icing. Probably more than 48% now.
Added to that, winter is when a lot of excess generating capacity (gas turbine and coal units) is taken offline for preventative maintenance. So that generating capacity is unavailable in the short term.
That's actually obvious once you think about it and do a little research. Iowa uses a lot of wind energy. So does Denmark. Neither of those locations are known for warm, toasty winters, but they seem to be doing just fine. --Bob
Not sure who started it but if you’re blaming bob many numbers just on his last post for making this political you probably didn’t see or remember some the others.Beebs52 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 8:02 pmThanks Bob! For making this political. You're making good choices little boy!Bob78164 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 7:12 pmTexas's state energy folks say that wind turbines have actually exceeded expectations, and that iced-over turbines are the least significant reason for the problem. Low gas pressure seems to be the biggest contributor, followed by iced over controls at gas and coal plants. Blaming wind energy is a right-wing propaganda stunt.mrkelley23 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 15, 2021 10:57 pmI just reposted an interesting post from a friend of mine on FB. I hadn't realized that Texas had basically divorced themselves from the national power grid. And in addition to the frozen turbines, solar panels don't work well when iced over, and gas lines are freezing all over the place. I hope it warms up soon there for all y'all.
That's actually obvious once you think about it and do a little research. Iowa uses a lot of wind energy. So does Denmark. Neither of those locations are known for warm, toasty winters, but they seem to be doing just fine. --Bob
Where? Other than you and Bob? Sorry, should have included you.wbtravis007 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 8:20 pmNot sure who started it but if you’re blaming bob many numbers just on his last post for making this political you probably didn’t see or remember some the others.Beebs52 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 8:02 pmThanks Bob! For making this political. You're making good choices little boy!Bob78164 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 7:12 pmTexas's state energy folks say that wind turbines have actually exceeded expectations, and that iced-over turbines are the least significant reason for the problem. Low gas pressure seems to be the biggest contributor, followed by iced over controls at gas and coal plants. Blaming wind energy is a right-wing propaganda stunt.
That's actually obvious once you think about it and do a little research. Iowa uses a lot of wind energy. So does Denmark. Neither of those locations are known for warm, toasty winters, but they seem to be doing just fine. --Bob
Not gonna worry my pretty little head about a substantive response to this. We’re on rolling blackouts and could have an extended outage at any time. I’ve been struggling to keep my phone charged as it is.Beebs52 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 8:30 pmWhere? Other than you and Bob? Sorry, should have included you.wbtravis007 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 8:20 pmNot sure who started it but if you’re blaming bob many numbers just on his last post for making this political you probably didn’t see or remember some the others.
Whatever dude. We're hoping for no more irrigation pipe busting tonight.wbtravis007 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 9:00 pmNot gonna worry my pretty little head about a substantive response to this. We’re on rolling blackouts and could have an extended outage at any time. I’ve been struggling to keep my phone charged as it is.Beebs52 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 8:30 pmWhere? Other than you and Bob? Sorry, should have included you.wbtravis007 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 8:20 pm
Not sure who started it but if you’re blaming bob many numbers just on his last post for making this political you probably didn’t see or remember some the others.
It’s there if you want to bother to look for it.
Stay warm.
I would have stayed in Orlando!Appa23 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 8:38 pmMy wife, our youngest daughter, and I just got back from Disney World yesterday, where we had a week of approximately high 70s and low 80s. Quite the change, seeing that it was -21, with -40 wind chill overnight. (Did wake up to see Good Morning America finally do a weather story not about East coast but my hometown. Guy did the demo of boiling water turning to steam in midair, plus showed the steam coming off of the Missouri River, which then iced up bridges and roads near the river
In the span of less than 12 hours, we had three different flight cancellations in trying to return home, and my wife had to fly home entirely separately from us, and we had to fly into Kansas City and have our son drive down to pick us up. (Wife was supposed to fly through Houston yesterday, while daughter and I flew through ChIcago. Fortunately, SWA ticketing agent got her onto a Dallas flight at the last minute, or she may still be in Houston.) Fortunately, no real issue with our car starting up when we went back to Omaha’s airport today, despite multiple days well below freezing.
No rolling power outages where I live, though other parts of the city did, as apparently Nebraska’s public power districts are part of a Southwest power collective, so customers in Nebraska had to lessen power demands to help people in more southern states not be as impacted.