Here's a story that will anger everybody

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themanintheseersuckersuit
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Re: Here's a story that will anger everybody

#26 Post by themanintheseersuckersuit » Tue Dec 10, 2013 1:27 pm

You might want to play close attention to fire drills

http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/loc ... 01371.html
Firefighters had to pull back at some points because the fully-charged solar panels posed the risk of electrocution.

"With all that power and energy up there, I can't jeopardize a guy’s life for that,” said Holt.

Officials say the fire was focused between the trusses and solar panels on the roof. There have been two explosions so far and at least one wall collapsed.

In 2010, the company installed more than 7,000 solar power modules, which officials claimed would reduce the facility's energy use by nearly 20 percent. Buildings with solar power systems “can present a variety of significant hazards" for firefighters including poor air quality and electrocution, according to the National Fire Protection Association.
Suitguy is not bitter.

feels he represents the many educated and rational onlookers who believe that the hysterical denouncement of lay scepticism is both unwarranted and counter-productive

The problem, then, is that such calls do not address an opposition audience so much as they signal virtue. They talk past those who need convincing. They ignore actual facts and counterargument. And they are irreparably smug.
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BackInTex
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Re: Here's a story that will anger everybody

#27 Post by BackInTex » Tue Dec 10, 2013 1:30 pm

flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Bob Juch wrote:
flockofseagulls104 wrote:Most people are well meaning with their ideas and political philosophies about any particular subject. One of these subjects is 'renewable' energy. But many just don't take the time to consider the unintended consequences of ideas that just 'seem' so right and environmentally friendly. And some take it to the point of denigrating and demonizing any opposition or rational arguments against their point of view on the subject. (And a lot of times, they are very loud and shrill about it.)

I am all for any kind of energy source that would be truly renewable and cost effective for everyone. Really, who wouldn't be? But it must be self sufficient and viable on it's own merits. If it has to be subsidized to work, it's not ready. I put wind power, ethanol, solar power electric cars and those kinds of things in that category. When they are ready and viable, they will get mass acceptance in the market and be implemented safely. Otherwise, they are not ready for prime time. And they should not be forced on us.
The roof of the building I'm working in now is entirely covered in solar panels that greatly reduce our power consumption. No subsidy is necessary.
Then I like it. As long as the company who made the solar panels is not getting preferential treatment at the expense of someone else (or taxpayers). Can you verify that?
Somone got subsidized, either directly or via a tax credit (manufacturer or building owner, or more likely both).
..what country can preserve it’s liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? let them take arms.
~~ Thomas Jefferson

War is where the government tells you who the bad guy is.
Revolution is when you decide that for yourself.
-- Benjamin Franklin (maybe)
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Re: Here's a story that will anger everybody

#28 Post by Bob Juch » Tue Dec 10, 2013 1:36 pm

flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Bob Juch wrote:
flockofseagulls104 wrote:Most people are well meaning with their ideas and political philosophies about any particular subject. One of these subjects is 'renewable' energy. But many just don't take the time to consider the unintended consequences of ideas that just 'seem' so right and environmentally friendly. And some take it to the point of denigrating and demonizing any opposition or rational arguments against their point of view on the subject. (And a lot of times, they are very loud and shrill about it.)

I am all for any kind of energy source that would be truly renewable and cost effective for everyone. Really, who wouldn't be? But it must be self sufficient and viable on it's own merits. If it has to be subsidized to work, it's not ready. I put wind power, ethanol, solar power electric cars and those kinds of things in that category. When they are ready and viable, they will get mass acceptance in the market and be implemented safely. Otherwise, they are not ready for prime time. And they should not be forced on us.
The roof of the building I'm working in now is entirely covered in solar panels that greatly reduce our power consumption. No subsidy is necessary.
Then I like it. As long as the company who made the solar panels is not getting preferential treatment at the expense of someone else (or taxpayers). Can you verify that?
Nope, but they've been here for something like 20 years.
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Re: Here's a story that will anger everybody

#29 Post by mrkelley23 » Tue Dec 10, 2013 6:13 pm

It's a good thing those "traditional" energy sources, like coal, oil, and nuclear, don't get any subsidies, right, guys?
For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled. -- Richard Feynman
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Re: Here's a story that will anger everybody

#30 Post by themanintheseersuckersuit » Tue Dec 10, 2013 6:20 pm

mrkelley23 wrote:It's a good thing those "traditional" energy sources, like coal, oil, and nuclear, don't get any subsidies, right, guys?

Tell us about those oil and coal subsidies
Suitguy is not bitter.

feels he represents the many educated and rational onlookers who believe that the hysterical denouncement of lay scepticism is both unwarranted and counter-productive

The problem, then, is that such calls do not address an opposition audience so much as they signal virtue. They talk past those who need convincing. They ignore actual facts and counterargument. And they are irreparably smug.
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Re: Here's a story that will anger everybody

#31 Post by mrkelley23 » Tue Dec 10, 2013 9:31 pm

themanintheseersuckersuit wrote:
mrkelley23 wrote:It's a good thing those "traditional" energy sources, like coal, oil, and nuclear, don't get any subsidies, right, guys?

Tell us about those oil and coal subsidies

Here's one historical study that might edify you. It's from a reasonably unbiased source, I think. If it doesn't satisfy you, please let me know, and I will do more digging.

I am fairly confident, however, in saying that oil and coal have received, over their US lifetime, at least as much in the way of subsidies as so-called "alternative" energy sources. Probably many more times as much.
For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled. -- Richard Feynman
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Re: Here's a story that will anger everybody

#32 Post by themanintheseersuckersuit » Wed Dec 11, 2013 8:24 am

mrkelley23 wrote:
themanintheseersuckersuit wrote:
mrkelley23 wrote:It's a good thing those "traditional" energy sources, like coal, oil, and nuclear, don't get any subsidies, right, guys?

Tell us about those oil and coal subsidies

Here's one historical study that might edify you. It's from a reasonably unbiased source, I think. If it doesn't satisfy you, please let me know, and I will do more digging.

I am fairly confident, however, in saying that oil and coal have received, over their US lifetime, at least as much in the way of subsidies as so-called "alternative" energy sources. Probably many more times as much.
The only subsidy stated in you article is this
The coal industry, for example, has received help from subsidies - often hidden - for centuries, beginning with an import tariff levied in 1789 and continuing through to preferential capital gains tax treatment enacted during the Korean War—a subsidy that remains in place today.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/davidblackm ... r-big-oil/

when you look at what thinkprogress says about coal its pretty weak sauce
http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2012/0 ... velopment/

look at the weasel words in this

Some coal royalties for private owners
Suitguy is not bitter.

feels he represents the many educated and rational onlookers who believe that the hysterical denouncement of lay scepticism is both unwarranted and counter-productive

The problem, then, is that such calls do not address an opposition audience so much as they signal virtue. They talk past those who need convincing. They ignore actual facts and counterargument. And they are irreparably smug.
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Re: Here's a story that will anger everybody

#33 Post by themanintheseersuckersuit » Wed Dec 11, 2013 8:28 am

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p544.pdf

the royalty treatment for coal applies to coal and iron ore
Suitguy is not bitter.

feels he represents the many educated and rational onlookers who believe that the hysterical denouncement of lay scepticism is both unwarranted and counter-productive

The problem, then, is that such calls do not address an opposition audience so much as they signal virtue. They talk past those who need convincing. They ignore actual facts and counterargument. And they are irreparably smug.
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Re: Here's a story that will anger everybody

#34 Post by ne1410s » Wed Dec 11, 2013 9:01 am

I deny that suitguy exists.
"When you argue with a fool, there are two fools in the argument."
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Re: Here's a story that will anger everybody

#35 Post by Bob Juch » Wed Dec 11, 2013 9:07 am

ne1410s wrote:I deny that suitguy exists.
Yeah, after all we've never seen his face.
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Re: Here's a story that will anger everybody

#36 Post by littlebeast13 » Wed Dec 11, 2013 9:11 am

ne1410s wrote:I deny that suitguy exists.

I think it's funny he and mrkelley have been going back and forth in this thread since there was a time when a lot of Bored people thought tmitsss was one of mrkelley's Merry Men....

lb13
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Re: Here's a story that will anger everybody

#37 Post by themanintheseersuckersuit » Wed Dec 11, 2013 9:30 am

littlebeast13 wrote:
ne1410s wrote:I deny that suitguy exists.

I think it's funny he and mrkelley have been going back and forth in this thread since there was a time when a lot of Bored people thought tmitsss was one of mrkelley's Merry Men....

lb13
In the early days of the bored someone thought I was Corn, when in reality we are all just LB's MM
Suitguy is not bitter.

feels he represents the many educated and rational onlookers who believe that the hysterical denouncement of lay scepticism is both unwarranted and counter-productive

The problem, then, is that such calls do not address an opposition audience so much as they signal virtue. They talk past those who need convincing. They ignore actual facts and counterargument. And they are irreparably smug.
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Re: Here's a story that will anger everybody

#38 Post by BackInTex » Wed Dec 11, 2013 10:24 am

themanintheseersuckersuit wrote:
littlebeast13 wrote:
ne1410s wrote:I deny that suitguy exists.

I think it's funny he and mrkelley have been going back and forth in this thread since there was a time when a lot of Bored people thought tmitsss was one of mrkelley's Merry Men....

lb13
In the early days of the bored someone thought I was Corn, when in reality we are all just LB's MM

Himmmm. I met LB and I met a guy who said he was you. Maybe LB was wearing lifts? You are tall IIRC.
..what country can preserve it’s liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? let them take arms.
~~ Thomas Jefferson

War is where the government tells you who the bad guy is.
Revolution is when you decide that for yourself.
-- Benjamin Franklin (maybe)
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Re: Here's a story that will anger everybody

#39 Post by themanintheseersuckersuit » Wed Dec 11, 2013 10:45 am

BackInTex wrote:
themanintheseersuckersuit wrote:
littlebeast13 wrote:

I think it's funny he and mrkelley have been going back and forth in this thread since there was a time when a lot of Bored people thought tmitsss was one of mrkelley's Merry Men....

lb13
In the early days of the bored someone thought I was Corn, when in reality we are all just LB's MM

Himmmm. I met LB and I met a guy who said he was you. Maybe LB was wearing lifts? You are tall IIRC.
There is a picture on the PB from 2002 of a guy with a goatee and a seersucker suit, but that's such an obvious disguise and he's sitting down. No one has seen LB and tmitsss in the same room.
Suitguy is not bitter.

feels he represents the many educated and rational onlookers who believe that the hysterical denouncement of lay scepticism is both unwarranted and counter-productive

The problem, then, is that such calls do not address an opposition audience so much as they signal virtue. They talk past those who need convincing. They ignore actual facts and counterargument. And they are irreparably smug.
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Re: Here's a story that will anger everybody

#40 Post by Evil Squirrel » Wed Dec 11, 2013 10:52 am

themanintheseersuckersuit wrote:
BackInTex wrote:
themanintheseersuckersuit wrote:
In the early days of the bored someone thought I was Corn, when in reality we are all just LB's MM

Himmmm. I met LB and I met a guy who said he was you. Maybe LB was wearing lifts? You are tall IIRC.
There is a picture on the PB from 2002 of a guy with a goatee and a seersucker suit, but that's such an obvious disguise and he's sitting down. No one has seen LB and tmitsss in the same room.

Now I know why my attorney is so incompetent!!! He's the same douchebag who claims he draws me!
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Re: Here's a story that will anger everybody

#41 Post by ghostjmf » Wed Dec 11, 2013 4:48 pm

suitguy exists & is a nice person (despite being WRONG about various topics, which we did not discuss. I didn't even know his holdings on them way-back-then. We discussed the show. Trying to get on it. Those were the days.).


Marley exists & is a nice person. (I don't think I knew his politics back then & anyway we didn't discuss politics. We discussed the show, how to get on. See above. I consider Marley one of more towards-centrist Repubs on the board, anyway, based on many & various threads. In Mass, when we had any, we usually elected them governor, & they called themselves "fiscally conservative, socially liberal". Or they'd never have gotten elected. But I digress.)


T-Bone exists & is a nice person.


Goongas exists & is a nice person.



Buffacuse exists & is a nice person, even though he apparently doesn't like me any more? He was nice to me when he met me.


These are all people I've met at various auditions (NYC), lunch arranged after auditions (was that Albany?).



Of course there are people no longer on the board who are also nice people. Amazonium, where did you go?


I hope I haven't left any currently on the board out.
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Re: Here's a story that will anger everybody

#42 Post by tlynn78 » Wed Dec 11, 2013 5:34 pm

ghostjmf wrote:suitguy exists & is a nice person (despite being WRONG about various topics, which we did not discuss. I didn't even know his holdings on them way-back-then. We discussed the show. Trying to get on it. Those were the days.).


Marley exists & is a nice person. (I don't think I knew his politics back then & anyway we didn't discuss politics. We discussed the show, how to get on. See above. I consider Marley one of more towards-centrist Repubs on the board, anyway, based on many & various threads. In Mass, when we had any, we usually elected them governor, & they called themselves "fiscally conservative, socially liberal". Or they'd never have gotten elected. But I digress.)


T-Bone exists & is a nice person.


Goongas exists & is a nice person.



Buffacuse exists & is a nice person, even though he apparently doesn't like me any more? He was nice to me when he met me.


These are all people I've met at various auditions (NYC), lunch arranged after auditions (was that Albany?).



Of course there are people no longer on the board who are also nice people. Amazonium, where did you go?


I hope I haven't left any currently on the board out.

I miss June-bug!
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Re: Here's a story that will anger everybody

#43 Post by Bob Juch » Wed Dec 11, 2013 7:26 pm

tlynn78 wrote:
ghostjmf wrote:suitguy exists & is a nice person (despite being WRONG about various topics, which we did not discuss. I didn't even know his holdings on them way-back-then. We discussed the show. Trying to get on it. Those were the days.).


Marley exists & is a nice person. (I don't think I knew his politics back then & anyway we didn't discuss politics. We discussed the show, how to get on. See above. I consider Marley one of more towards-centrist Repubs on the board, anyway, based on many & various threads. In Mass, when we had any, we usually elected them governor, & they called themselves "fiscally conservative, socially liberal". Or they'd never have gotten elected. But I digress.)


T-Bone exists & is a nice person.


Goongas exists & is a nice person.



Buffacuse exists & is a nice person, even though he apparently doesn't like me any more? He was nice to me when he met me.


These are all people I've met at various auditions (NYC), lunch arranged after auditions (was that Albany?).



Of course there are people no longer on the board who are also nice people. Amazonium, where did you go?


I hope I haven't left any currently on the board out.

I miss June-bug!
She's on Facebook and is a recent grandmother.
I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be.
- Douglas Adams (1952 - 2001)

Si fractum non sit, noli id reficere.

Teach a child to be polite and courteous in the home and, when he grows up, he'll never be able to drive in New Jersey.
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Re: Here's a story that will anger everybody

#44 Post by BackInTex » Thu Dec 12, 2013 8:38 am

ghostjmf wrote:suitguy exists & is a nice person (despite being WRONG about various topics, which we did not discuss. I didn't even know his holdings on them way-back-then. We discussed the show. Trying to get on it. Those were the days.).


Marley exists & is a nice person. (I don't think I knew his politics back then & anyway we didn't discuss politics. We discussed the show, how to get on. See above. I consider Marley one of more towards-centrist Repubs on the board, anyway, based on many & various threads. In Mass, when we had any, we usually elected them governor, & they called themselves "fiscally conservative, socially liberal". Or they'd never have gotten elected. But I digress.)


T-Bone exists & is a nice person.


Goongas exists & is a nice person.



Buffacuse exists & is a nice person, even though he apparently doesn't like me any more? He was nice to me when he met me.


These are all people I've met at various auditions (NYC), lunch arranged after auditions (was that Albany?).



Of course there are people no longer on the board who are also nice people. Amazonium, where did you go?


I hope I haven't left any currently on the board out.
All well and good, if you exist, which I can't confirm. :wink:
..what country can preserve it’s liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? let them take arms.
~~ Thomas Jefferson

War is where the government tells you who the bad guy is.
Revolution is when you decide that for yourself.
-- Benjamin Franklin (maybe)
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Re: Here's a story that will anger everybody

#45 Post by ghostjmf » Thu Dec 12, 2013 5:25 pm

BIT says:
All well and good, if you exist, which I can't confirm.

Well, I speed-dialed to get you an in back when we could do that sort of thing. Even though I prolly did know some of your political & other beliefs back then. Because we were a speed-dialling group trying to get each other on the show (I admit I forget the exact context of the speed-dialing; we weren't answering questions for each other on the phone game,newbies).

And people watching reruns of the glory days of Regis can see me, very very briefly, a younger & much, much healthier me coming in 9th or 10th on one Fastest Finger Q & 3rd (a distant 3rd) on the next.

I had those bad buttons, but even with good ones I still couldn't have beaten the faster, younger fingers who beat me. That's what I tell myself, anyway.
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Re: Here's a story that will anger everybody

#46 Post by BackInTex » Thu Dec 12, 2013 10:07 pm

ghostjmf wrote:BIT says:
All well and good, if you exist, which I can't confirm.

Well, I speed-dialed to get you an in back when we could do that sort of thing. Because we were a speed-dialling group trying to get each other on the show (I admit I forget the exact context of the speed-dialing; we weren't answering questions for each other on the phone game,newbies).
We sped dialed to get pins which were used to get audition spots, I believe. That was a long time ago. Fun times.
..what country can preserve it’s liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? let them take arms.
~~ Thomas Jefferson

War is where the government tells you who the bad guy is.
Revolution is when you decide that for yourself.
-- Benjamin Franklin (maybe)
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Re: Here's a story that will anger everybody

#47 Post by littlebeast13 » Thu Dec 12, 2013 10:42 pm

BackInTex wrote:
ghostjmf wrote:BIT says:
All well and good, if you exist, which I can't confirm.

Well, I speed-dialed to get you an in back when we could do that sort of thing. Because we were a speed-dialling group trying to get each other on the show (I admit I forget the exact context of the speed-dialing; we weren't answering questions for each other on the phone game,newbies).
We sped dialed to get pins which were used to get audition spots, I believe. That was a long time ago. Fun times.
War dialing!!!!

Where have you gone robertl30.....?

lb13
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Re: Here's a story that will anger everybody

#48 Post by themanintheseersuckersuit » Mon Dec 16, 2013 5:58 am

mrkelley23 wrote:

Here's something I wonder, though, as a physics teacher. These wind farms are located in windy areas by necessity. When they are large enough, with enough blades, there is no question that they "slow down the wind" in that area. Slowing down the wind has the effect of changing wind patterns, which could change local prevailing winds, which could eventually affect climate over large parts of the globe. Has any serious study been made of this potential? Cause I'm not finding one.

And, BiT, your answer is valid -- I didn't mean to dispute that. The reason you don't build guards around the blades is because of the two big engineering principles: cost and mass. Building blade guards would add tremendously to the cost and mass, as well as decreasing the efficiency of the machine.
http://www.wunderground.com/blog/JeffMa ... rynum=2598
Suitguy is not bitter.

feels he represents the many educated and rational onlookers who believe that the hysterical denouncement of lay scepticism is both unwarranted and counter-productive

The problem, then, is that such calls do not address an opposition audience so much as they signal virtue. They talk past those who need convincing. They ignore actual facts and counterargument. And they are irreparably smug.
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Re: Here's a story that will anger everybody

#49 Post by themanintheseersuckersuit » Mon Dec 16, 2013 3:39 pm

Orangutans fight for survival as thirst for palm oil devastates rainforests
Palm oil plantations are destroying the Sumatran apes' habitat, leaving just 200 of the animals struggling for existence
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/d ... r-survival

Biodiesel fuelling palm oil expansion

http://www.greenpeace.org.uk/forests/palm-oil

lol citing The Guardian and GP

Let's save the F...... polar bears
Suitguy is not bitter.

feels he represents the many educated and rational onlookers who believe that the hysterical denouncement of lay scepticism is both unwarranted and counter-productive

The problem, then, is that such calls do not address an opposition audience so much as they signal virtue. They talk past those who need convincing. They ignore actual facts and counterargument. And they are irreparably smug.
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Re: Here's a story that will anger everybody

#50 Post by themanintheseersuckersuit » Mon Dec 16, 2013 3:39 pm

fe·cund
ˈfekənd,ˈfē-/Submit
adjective
1.
producing or capable of producing an abundance of offspring or new growth; fertile.
Suitguy is not bitter.

feels he represents the many educated and rational onlookers who believe that the hysterical denouncement of lay scepticism is both unwarranted and counter-productive

The problem, then, is that such calls do not address an opposition audience so much as they signal virtue. They talk past those who need convincing. They ignore actual facts and counterargument. And they are irreparably smug.
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