If you're an Obama fan

[Sir_Galahad]

I am curious as whether you think his ties to the blustery Rev. Jeremiah Wright are meaningful? And, would those ties make you feel differently about Obama?

I don't think that Obama shares those views.

I think that people who are assuming or suspecting that he does would not be voting for him anyway.

Really??? You mean you would continue to attend a church for some 20 years and allow this guy to marry you and your wife if you did not believe his views and teachings? Not to mention that the title of his book comes from the Rev. Wright. Sorry, travis but I find that to be extremely naive.

[wbtravis007]

I am curious as whether you think his ties to the blustery Rev. Jeremiah Wright are meaningful? And, would those ties make you feel differently about Obama?

I don't think that Obama shares those views.

I think that people who are assuming or suspecting that he does would not be voting for him anyway.

Really??? You mean you would continue to attend a church for some 20 years and allow this guy to marry you and your wife if you did not believe his views and teachings? Not to mention that the title of his book comes from the Rev. Wright. Sorry, travis but I find that to be extremely naive.

I'll respond with my previous post:

I think it's naive and just plain dumb to think that all people in all congregations share all of the views espoused by their pastor or each other or are too weak to leave the church if they don't.

As you can see, I've already dubbsed the "n" word in this thread.

[silverscreenselect]

I am curious as whether you think his ties to the blustery Rev. Jeremiah Wright are meaningful? And, would those ties make you feel differently about Obama?

I don't think that Obama shares those views.

I think that people who are assuming or suspecting that he does would not be voting for him anyway.

Really??? You mean you would continue to attend a church for some 20 years and allow this guy to marry you and your wife if you did not believe his views and teachings? Not to mention that the title of his book comes from the Rev. Wright. Sorry, travis but I find that to be extremely naive.

The relationship between Obama and Wright goes way beyond the normal parishoner/pastor one. He married the Obamas and baptized their daughters. Obama has called Wright his spiritual advisor and his "sounding board" and got the title for the book "The Audacity of Hope" from a Wright sermon. He consulted with Wright before running for President and prayed with Wright the day he announced his candidacy. Obama credits Wright with helping him find religion in the 1980's. He and his wife gave over $20000 to Wright's church last year.

This is more than just being a pastor. If you believe Obama when he says that he has gotten spiritual guidance from Wright, it's fair to ask just how much and what sort of guidance he has gotten. And why he continues to seek Wright out for counsel and advice after Wright keeps making these horrible statements.

[Tocqueville3]

I don't think that Obama shares those views.

I think that people who are assuming or suspecting that he does would not be voting for him anyway.

Really??? You mean you would continue to attend a church for some 20 years and allow this guy to marry you and your wife if you did not believe his views and teachings? Not to mention that the title of his book comes from the Rev. Wright. Sorry, travis but I find that to be extremely naive.

The relationship between Obama and Wright goes way beyond the normal parishoner/pastor one. He married the Obamas and baptized their daughters. Obama has called Wright his spiritual advisor and his "sounding board" and got the title for the book "The Audacity of Hope" from a Wright sermon. He consulted with Wright before running for President and prayed with Wright the day he announced his candidacy. Obama credits Wright with helping him find religion in the 1980's. He and his wife gave over $20000 to Wright's church last year.

This is more than just being a pastor. If you believe Obama when he says that he has gotten spiritual guidance from Wright, it's fair to ask just how much and what sort of guidance he has gotten. And why he continues to seek Wright out for counsel and advice after Wright keeps making these horrible statements.

Holy crap. I believe all of what SSS just said. The devil must be freezing right now.

[wbtravis007]

sss said:

This is more than just being a pastor. If you believe Obama when he says that he has gotten spiritual guidance from Wright, it's fair to ask just how much and what sort of guidance he has gotten. And why he continues to seek Wright out for counsel and advice after Wright keeps making these horrible statements.

Well, of course it's fair to ask.

What I've been hearing from y'all so far would suggest that there would really be no reason to ask, since it's so obvious that he shares all of the same views as this guy.

Or, how 'bout this: we could just ask Rush what he thinks Obama's views are, and take his answer?

[Sir_Galahad]

sss said:

This is more than just being a pastor. If you believe Obama when he says that he has gotten spiritual guidance from Wright, it's fair to ask just how much and what sort of guidance he has gotten. And why he continues to seek Wright out for counsel and advice after Wright keeps making these horrible statements.

Well, of course it's fair to ask.

What I've been hearing from y'all so far would suggest that there would really be no reason to ask, since it's so obvious that he shares all of the same views as this guy.

Or, how 'bout this: we could just ask Rush what he thinks Obama's views are, and take his answer?

I think what should be done, rather than take anyone else's point of view, is do a little homework and take one's head out of the sand. And, as an oh-by-the-way, SSS is not on the same side of the political aisle as Rush (as far as I know).

[Bob78164]

Here's Obama's response:

Obama wrote on the Huffington Post that he never heard Wright say any of the statements that are "so contrary to my own life and beliefs," but they have raised legitimate questions about the nature of his relationship with the pastor and the church.

He explained that he joined Wright's church, Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago, nearly 20 years ago. He said he knew Wright as a former Marine and respected biblical scholar who lectured at seminaries across the country.

"Reverend Wright preached the gospel of Jesus, a gospel on which I base my life," he wrote. "... And the sermons I heard him preach always related to our obligation to love God and one another, to work on behalf of the poor, and to seek justice at every turn."

He said Wright's controversial statements first came to his attention at the beginning of his presidential campaign last year, and he condemned them. Because of his ties to the 6,000-member congregation church — he and his wife were married there and their daughters baptized — Obama decided not to leave the church.

The full post stating Obama's response is here. --Bob

[themanintheseersuckersuit]

Here's Obama's response:

Obama wrote on the Huffington Post that he never heard Wright say any of the statements that are "so contrary to my own life and beliefs," but they have raised legitimate questions about the nature of his relationship with the pastor and the church.

He explained that he joined Wright's church, Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago, nearly 20 years ago. He said he knew Wright as a former Marine and respected biblical scholar who lectured at seminaries across the country.

"Reverend Wright preached the gospel of Jesus, a gospel on which I base my life," he wrote. "... And the sermons I heard him preach always related to our obligation to love God and one another, to work on behalf of the poor, and to seek justice at every turn."

He said Wright's controversial statements first came to his attention at the beginning of his presidential campaign last year, and he condemned them. Because of his ties to the 6,000-member congregation church — he and his wife were married there and their daughters baptized — Obama decided not to leave the church.

The full post stating Obama's response is here. --Bob

I've been guilty of dozing off in church too.

[Sir_Galahad]

I've been guilty of dozing off in church too.

Do you think you would be able to doze off while Rev. Wright was preaching that stuff?

[Sir_Galahad]

More and more of this puzzle called Barack Obama is starting to fall into place.

He doesn't wear his American Flag lapel pin.

He doesn't recite the Pledge of Allegiance.

He doesn't place his hand over his heart when the National Anthem is being sung.

And, listening to what his wife said a few weeks ago.

All coincidences??

Now, each one of these by itself doesn't mean too much. But, put them all together in the context of Rev. Wright's speeches and you come up with quite a different picture. At least I do.

[Bob78164]

I've been guilty of dozing off in church too.

Do you think you would be able to doze off while Rev. Wright was preaching that stuff?

According to the stories I've read, Wright said those things on three occasions in seven years. I don't find it at all hard to believe that Obama wasn't present on any of those occasions. Do you think he was present in church <U>every single week</U>?

This should be a non-issue. When Obama learned about the statements, he unconditionally condemned and repudiated them. The only reason he didn't leave the church is that the man who made the statements was already scheduled to retire shortly (and has, in fact, retired). What should Obama have done differently? --Bob

[ne1410s]

bob #s:

The only reason he didn't leave the church is that the man who made the statements was already scheduled to retire shortly ...

You silly. Obama is and always has been a Muslim. Don't you read your email??????????????????????????

[Bob78164]

bob #s:

The only reason he didn't leave the church is that the man who made the statements was already scheduled to retire shortly ...

You silly. Obama is and always has been a Muslim. Don't you read your email??????????????????????????

The same ones with that canard assaulting his outward displays of patriotism? --Bob

[Kool-Aid_Man]

[quote="Bob78164"][quote="ne1410s"]bob #s:

[quote]The only reason he didn't leave the church is that the man who made the statements was already scheduled to retire shortly ...[/quote]

You silly. Obama is and always has been a Muslim. Don't you read your email??????????????????????????

[/quote]The same ones with that canard assaulting his outward displays of patriotism? --Bob[/quote]

Looks like TennisGuy and PlayItBob are thirsty.

Oh yeah!

[TheConfessor]

He doesn't wear his American Flag lapel pin.

He doesn't recite the Pledge of Allegiance.

He doesn't place his hand over his heart when the National Anthem is being sung.

If everyone in America who hasn't done these things today votes for Obama, it will be the biggest landslide in American history. I know it has been a long time since I've done any of these. Does that make me a bad person? Mea maxima culpa.

[BackInTex]

He doesn't wear his American Flag lapel pin.

He doesn't recite the Pledge of Allegiance.

He doesn't place his hand over his heart when the National Anthem is being sung.

If everyone in America who hasn't done these things today votes for Obama, it will be the biggest landslide in American history. I know it has been a long time since I've done any of these. Does that make me a bad person? Mea maxima culpa.

No, but it also doesn't make you a very good candidate for POTUS.

If Obama doesn't love this country, I mean truly love it, enough to recite a pledge of allegiance to the country he loves, them maybe he should look for another job. Doesn't mean he is a bad person.

Not being a bad person is not necessarily a large part of the requirements to be POTUS. I think loving this country, willing to die for it, pledging allegiance to the country (represented by the flag).

[ToLiveIsToFly]

Are all Catholics against birth control, masturbation, premarital sex and the death penalty?

[BackInTex]

Are all Catholics against birth control, masturbation, premarital sex and the death penalty?

No, many priests have had premarital sex.

[TheConfessor]

I find it amusing that someone who defaces his state's flag every time he posts on this board would be so hung up about whether someone else wears a flag pin.

[Estonut]

He doesn't wear his American Flag lapel pin.

He doesn't recite the Pledge of Allegiance.

He doesn't place his hand over his heart when the National Anthem is being sung.

I didn't realize that web-savvy people still believed that stuff:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/obama.asp

[Bob78164]

If Obama doesn't love this country, I mean truly love it, enough to recite a pledge of allegiance to the country he loves, them maybe he should look for another job. Doesn't mean he is a bad person.

You know, if you don't love the democratic process, I mean truly love it, enough to take a few minutes to learn the facts before voting, then maybe you should do the rest of us a favor and decline to exercise your franchise. Doesn't mean you're a bad person.

It's one thing to vote against a candidate because you don't like something real about him, or even something subjective. But this canard is demonstrably false and the falsity is easily found. Especially in a forum like this one, where we tend to respect intelligent, fact-based discourse, you should be embarassed to ask anyone to base one of the most important civic decisions any citizen can make on a lie. You should also be aware that you are contributing to the degradation of political discourse -- politicians will continue to lie to us to win elections as long as they can count on voters <U>like you</U> who are too lazy to learn the truth.

And by the way, my refusal to recite the Pledge of Allegiance has nothing to do with disdain for my country. When Congress restores the Pledge to its pre-McCarthy era respect for the Establishment Clause, I'll start reciting it. But the First Amendment ensures that we are <U>not</U> "one nation <I>under God</I>" and I love the Constitution far too much to pretend otherwise. Would that make me an unsuitable candidate for political office? --Bob

[silverscreenselect]

This should be a non-issue. When Obama learned about the statements, he unconditionally condemned and repudiated them. The only reason he didn't leave the church is that the man who made the statements was already scheduled to retire shortly (and has, in fact, retired). What should Obama have done differently? --Bob

Obama repudiated these statements when the press made a stink about it. This is not the same situation as with Geraldine Ferraro or Samantha Power in which they made statements that were fairly promptly disavowed by the candidates. Wright has been saying these things for years. His church sells videos of these sermons. The content of them was widely known among church members. Despite all this, he continued his relationship with Wright, who, up until today was on his spiritual board of advisors.

Now I realize there are a lot of Obama worshippers out there who will blindly believe everything the man says (although what they will do if and when a news organization establishes he was in church during one or more of these sermons will be quite entertaining) but most people expect that a man who wants to be president of the United States would have some feel for what his spiritual advisor says and does repeatedly in a very public forum.

Obama is arrogant. He believes that he can just smooth talk his way out of anything and that the press and public will just take his word and move on, be it Wright, Rezko, or whatever. But there is an increasingly obvious pattern to a lot of people that Obama just doesn't believe the normal rules of politics apply to him.

I have to say that this Wright business caught me by surprise. I knew about Rezko, about the Kenyans, about William Ayers, about Larry Sinclair, but I wasn't aware of Wright until Sean Hannity dug him up. I feel confident that there are a lot more skeletons in Obama's closet that the Republicans will be digging up in the weeks and months to come, and there's only so many times that you can claim innocence and still have anyone but the most lobotomized koolaid drinking followers of yours believe.

[wintergreen48]

Are all Catholics against birth control, masturbation, premarital sex and the death penalty?

I thought of the exact same analogy, but it really plays into the hands of the people with whom you disagree.

It is certainly true that not all Catholics agree with the position of the Church on all of those issues (I have seen surveys that suggest that U.S. Catholics are actually slightly higher than the general [non-Catholic] population in their disagreement with the Church on some of those issues). But the people with whom you disagree, and toward whom you point this analogy, would probably agree with you (that not all Catholics agree with the Church's formal position on these matters)... and then they would point out that their opposition to the Church's position would probably make them unsuitable to serve as Pope, and THEN they would take your comment as support for their position that Obama is unsuitable to serve as U.S. President because he doesn't do the flag-waving stuff.

It's all moot anyway: Nader's going to win (just ask him).

[peacock2121]

Are all Catholics against birth control, masturbation, premarital sex and the death penalty?

I thought of the exact same analogy, but it really plays into the hands of the people with whom you disagree.

It is certainly true that not all Catholics agree with the position of the Church on all of those issues (I have seen surveys that suggest that U.S. Catholics are actually slightly higher than the general [non-Catholic] population in their disagreement with the Church on some of those issues). But the people with whom you disagree, and toward whom you point this analogy, would probably agree with you (that not all Catholics agree with the Church's formal position on these matters)... and then they would point out that their opposition to the Church's position would probably make them unsuitable to serve as Pope, and THEN they would take your comment as support for their position that Obama is unsuitable to serve as U.S. President because he doesn't do the flag-waving stuff.

It's all moot anyway: Nader's going to win (just ask him).

You gotta love how wintergreen brings some sense of humor to even the most contentious threads.

[ToLiveIsToFly]

Are all Catholics against birth control, masturbation, premarital sex and the death penalty?

I thought of the exact same analogy, but it really plays into the hands of the people with whom you disagree.

It is certainly true that not all Catholics agree with the position of the Church on all of those issues (I have seen surveys that suggest that U.S. Catholics are actually slightly higher than the general [non-Catholic] population in their disagreement with the Church on some of those issues). But the people with whom you disagree, and toward whom you point this analogy, would probably agree with you (that not all Catholics agree with the Church's formal position on these matters)... and then they would point out that their opposition to the Church's position would probably make them unsuitable to serve as Pope, and THEN they would take your comment as support for their position that Obama is unsuitable to serve as U.S. President because he doesn't do the flag-waving stuff.

It's all moot anyway: Nader's going to win (just ask him).

And if Obama were trying to become head of his church, I'd agree with you.

But because he's a member of a church, it doesn't mean he agrees with everything that church stands for, especially in matters peripheral to the reasons people tend to choose churches.

And he's trying to become President of a country that CAN change directions on the small stuff. Who knows? Maybe actual acts of patriotism could someday take precedence over empty gestures.