Kucinich drops out

[Appa23]

I wonder if I had stayed with the original "decent, God-fearin', freedom-lovin' American", then the levity would have been more obvious.

Or would peoples' heads exploded?

[earendel]

I have always held that one can only be insulted when one cares about the opiner's opinion.

Earendel, you might want to start holding that as well.

I guess I should have used a smiley - I knew HoltDad's comment was tongue-in-cheek, as my response was supposed to be.

[Appa23]

I have always held that one can only be insulted when one cares about the opiner's opinion.

Earendel, you might want to start holding that as well.

I guess I should have used a smiley - I knew HoltDad's comment was tongue-in-cheek, as my response was supposed to be.

O.K. Wheww!

I actually do care about Earendel's opinion.

[earendel]

O.K. Wheww!

I actually do care about Earendel's opinion.

Now THAT'S funny!!!

[andrewjackson]

While waiting for Princess Pudding Frankenstein to have her second scalp surgery finished, I was reading some type of men's health magazine. There was a short piece about the various Presidential candiates' athletic backgrounds....

The big losers in the "athletics as a sign of training in leadership and life skills": Mitt Romney and Hillary, who each had essentially zip in this background area.

Since this obviously is an area that is important to you, I will assume you are aware that Hillary had approximately zero opportunity to participate in athletics on any kind of team basis. Before Title IX took effect in 1972, American schools offered virtually no team sports in which women were permitted to take part. Some young women took up sports such as golf, tennis, or figure skating on an individual basis and at their own expense, but they normally were offered no encouragment, coaching, or recognition by high schools or colleges. (Private girls' schools probably were an exception.)

There may be reasons to question whether Hillary would make a good president. Her lack of participation in sporting activities for which she was forbidden to participate isn't one of them.

It is not true that no schools offered team sports for girls. At least some states had high school girls basketball teams before 1972.

Iowa and Oklahoma, for instance, have had girls basketball state tournaments continuously since the 20s. It was 6 player rules for most of that time but they had teams.

I'm pretty sure that several Eastern states had competitions in other girls sports like field hockey before 1972. That might have been mostly private schools, though.

Women's college basketball started having national championships in 1969 but there were teams and leagues before that.

I would agree, though, that it is not fair to fault a lack of sports experience by most women from the era.

[silvercamaro]

It is not true that no schools offered team sports for girls. At least some states had high school girls basketball teams before 1972.

Iowa and Oklahoma, for instance, have had girls basketball state tournaments continuously since the 20s. It was 6 player rules for most of that time but they had teams.

I'm pretty sure that several Eastern states had competitions in other girls sports like field hockey before 1972. That might have been mostly private schools, though.

Women's college basketball started having national championships in 1969 but there were teams and leagues before that.

I would agree, though, that it is not fair to fault a lack of sports experience by most women from the era.

You're exactly right, of course, but opportunities did vary greatly by geographical region and perhaps even school district. My own high school had a women's ski team, for example, and it had a women's tennis team -- but only until a gym expansion project required that the women's tennis court become part of the building footprint. The women were not permitted to practice or play on the boy's tennis court. (Perhaps there was concern for an epidemic of cooties.) Basketball, volleyball, softball, and field hockey for girls were limited to P.E. classes, and soccer hadn't yet made its way to the nation's interior.

I took umbrage to the statement quoted by Appa because it was an over-generalization based on a lack of recognition that the world is different now than it used to be. (That too is an overgeneralization, but at least I recognize it.)

[andrewjackson]

It is not true that no schools offered team sports for girls. At least some states had high school girls basketball teams before 1972.

Iowa and Oklahoma, for instance, have had girls basketball state tournaments continuously since the 20s. It was 6 player rules for most of that time but they had teams.

I'm pretty sure that several Eastern states had competitions in other girls sports like field hockey before 1972. That might have been mostly private schools, though.

Women's college basketball started having national championships in 1969 but there were teams and leagues before that.

I would agree, though, that it is not fair to fault a lack of sports experience by most women from the era.

You're exactly right, of course, but opportunities did vary greatly by geographical region and perhaps even school district. My own high school had a women's ski team, for example, and it had a women's tennis team -- but only until a gym expansion project required that the women's tennis court become part of the building footprint. The women were not permitted to practice or play on the boy's tennis court. (Perhaps there was concern for an epidemic of cooties.) Basketball, volleyball, softball, and field hockey for girls were limited to P.E. classes, and soccer hadn't yet made its way to the nation's interior.

I took umbrage to the statement quoted by Appa because it was an over-generalization based on a lack of recognition that the world is different now than it used to be. (That too is an overgeneralization, but at least I recognize it.)

It was a good general point. And I agree with it.

I looked up Illinois and the Illinois High School Association actually banned girls high school interscholastic sports from 1907 until 1973. Some other associations in Illinois still allowed it but as those groups got folded into the IHSA girls sports disappeared. The Chicago Public Schools joined in 1926 and pretty much ended all competition in the state. So Hillary Clinton would certainly have had no extracurricular sports opportunities at her high school.

[mrkelley23]

Well, I would say yes. All decent Americans will be happier if a Republican wins

I guess that I am not decent.

Well, I don't know, but you seem to take things too seriously at times.

<snort> I say, Mr. Kettle, have you met Mr. Pot?

[Appa23]

You're exactly right, of course, but opportunities did vary greatly by geographical region and perhaps even school district. My own high school had a women's ski team, for example, and it had a women's tennis team -- but only until a gym expansion project required that the women's tennis court become part of the building footprint. The women were not permitted to practice or play on the boy's tennis court. (Perhaps there was concern for an epidemic of cooties.) Basketball, volleyball, softball, and field hockey for girls were limited to P.E. classes, and soccer hadn't yet made its way to the nation's interior.

I took umbrage to the statement quoted by Appa because it was an over-generalization based on a lack of recognition that the world is different now than it used to be. (That too is an overgeneralization, but at least I recognize it.)

It was a good general point. And I agree with it.

I looked up Illinois and the Illinois High School Association actually banned girls high school interscholastic sports from 1907 until 1973. Some other associations in Illinois still allowed it but as those groups got folded into the IHSA girls sports disappeared. The Chicago Public Schools joined in 1926 and pretty much ended all competition in the state. So Hillary Clinton would certainly have had no extracurricular sports opportunities at her high school.

Well, this certainly has been taken to ridiculous lengths. Shockingly, there have been sports opportunites, then and now, prior to high school. Organized and unorganized.

According to Clinton's own campaign website, "During her youth she was very found of sports, including tennis, skating, ballet, swimming, volleyball and softball. "

I think that the point made by the article writer was that he could not verify anything in Clinton's background. (Upon further search, for example, Edwards only was at Clemson for 1 semester, could not secure a football scholarship, so he left for NC State.) Who knows how hard he looked.

I have seen several articles where Clinton also has claimed to have won a mixed-doubles tennis title in Arkansas, but it would seem that the writer could not verify the veracity of the allegation.

This is one of those "personality/image" issues where Clinton pales in comparison. Obama plays pick-up basketball and is an avid Sports Center viewer. Hillary is a speedwalker. Her problem is that anything that she now does will come off as horribly fake. (Think of Kerry with those staged hunting photo ops.)

Anyway, there is a general consensus (if you look at articles addressing this subject) that it can be a (subconscious) issue with the public. Think of how past Presidents have been photgraphed -- playing touch football, clearing brush, riding horses, racing speedboats, and even playing golf. Doing the NYT Sunday crossword puzzle doesn't have the same sizzle.

[ne1410s]

I looked up Illinois and the Illinois High School Association actually banned girls high school interscholastic sports from 1907 until 1973.

The key word is "interscholastic". I graduated high school, in Illinois, in 1964. Girls were allowed to participate in G.A.A.(Girls' Athletic Association). This involved some intramural volleyball and bowling after school. That was about it. Unless I am disremembering (again), girls were not allowed to run certain distances during track season even when Title IX was implemented.

I do remember the Iowa girls' basketball championships being televised for many years before Illinois girls could participate in interscholastic sports. At St Thomas Aquinas High School, Fort Madison, IA, the boys' game was usually the prelim to the girls' game. And yes it was three on three at each end of the floor, the ref threw the ball into play after a basket, and the players were only allowed three dribbles.

Years later some girls sued the Iowa High School Association to allow girls to play "boys'" rules. They said they were being hurt in recruiting. Which was true. They won the suit.

[Appa23]

I looked up Illinois and the Illinois High School Association actually banned girls high school interscholastic sports from 1907 until 1973.

The key word is "interscholastic". I graduated high school, in Illinois, in 1964. Girls were allowed to participate in G.A.A.(Girls' Athletic Association). This involved some intramural volleyball and bowling after school. That was about it. Unless I am disremembering (again), girls were not allowed to run certain distances during track season even when Title IX was implemented.

I do remember the Iowa girls' basketball championships being televised for many years before Illinois girls could participate in interscholastic sports. At St Thomas Aquinas High School, Fort Madison, IA, the boys' game was usually the prelim to the girls' game. And yes it was three on three at each end of the floor, the ref threw the ball into play after a basket, and the players were only allowed three dribbles.

Years later some girls sued the Iowa High School Association to allow girls to play "boys'" rules. They said they were being hurt in recruiting. Which was true. They won the suit.

I wish that I could remember when Iowa totally eliminated the 6 v 6 game. I recall that I still may have been in high school when they had tournaments for both 5 v 5 and 6 v 6, with the 6 v 6 still being the more attended and more televised event.

(Checked -- it was 1992-93 season.)

[earendel]

Doing the NYT Sunday crossword puzzle doesn't have the same sizzle.

Says you. I would appreciate a photo of a president working a NYT Sunday crossword - in ink, of course.

[silverscreenselect]

This is one of those "personality/image" issues where Clinton pales in comparison. Obama plays pick-up basketball and is an avid Sports Center viewer. Hillary is a speedwalker. Her problem is that anything that she now does will come off as horribly fake. (Think of Kerry with those staged hunting photo ops.)

Anyway, there is a general consensus (if you look at articles addressing this subject) that it can be a (subconscious) issue with the public. Think of how past Presidents have been photgraphed -- playing touch football, clearing brush, riding horses, racing speedboats, and even playing golf. Doing the NYT Sunday crossword puzzle doesn't have the same sizzle.

I'm going to be very blunt about this. I don't know how much of an athlete Hillary is or has been. But I do know that there is a big difference between a male candidate being shown playing football or basketball and a female doing the same thing.

Any attempts by Hillary to play up her athleticism would be pounced upon by a certain segment as raising questions about her sexuality.Women in politics have to walk a fine line. Either they are too soft and feminine or even bimboesque (look at the treatment of the miniscule amount of cleavage Hillary once showed) or they are butch. It's ridiculous and it's disgusting but it's true, and in Hillary's case, any remotely possible means of criticism will be magnified 100 times.