Just WHAT did you expect from him?

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Re: Just WHAT did you expect from him?

#26 Post by Jeemie » Tue Jan 27, 2009 8:59 am

Flybrick wrote:For the things I want to be better in my world, am I to count on the government to fix?

For the American economy, specifically, am I to rely on the government to fix?

If that is your contention, I don't know that it is, but it would appear so, then we have different expectations of government as well as the proper role of government.

Please, tell me what you expect the government to do regarding either the economy or your personal world.

Regarding the press, do we agree on something? Or did I miss your intent? If some have forgotten that, to whom do you refer?
This thread wasn't about the economy- it was about Middle East relations.

Which is DEFINITELY a role of the government to foster (or not).

Just thought I'd get the thread back on track.
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Re: Just WHAT did you expect from him?

#27 Post by Referee Phil Luckett » Tue Jan 27, 2009 9:00 am

Jeemie wrote:Just thought I'd get the thread back on track.


TWEET!!!!!

MAJOR Bored violation on Jeemie!

Jeemie has been ejected from this thread!

Now to prepare for Tampa next Sunday....

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Re: Just WHAT did you expect from him?

#28 Post by Jeemie » Tue Jan 27, 2009 9:04 am

Referee Phil Luckett wrote:
Jeemie wrote:Just thought I'd get the thread back on track.


TWEET!!!!!

MAJOR Bored violation on Jeemie!

Jeemie has been ejected from this thread!

Now to prepare for Tampa next Sunday....
You can't even get a friggin' coin toss right.

You expect me to believe you know a Bored Violation when it happens?
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Re: Just WHAT did you expect from him?

#29 Post by Flybrick » Tue Jan 27, 2009 9:04 am

Jeemie, since you've already had the flag thrown, I'll sneak this in.

The Middle East with it's oil is definitely linked to our economy, thus I think the subject is fair game.

I'll wait for the replay review however...

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Re: Just WHAT did you expect from him?

#30 Post by silverscreenselect » Tue Jan 27, 2009 9:04 am

BackInTex wrote: Our President will never get a second chance to grant a first interview.
I don't know of any news outlets in this country that Obama hasn't granted an interview to over the past few months. It's not like people here don't get a chance to see him on camera.

We're sending a special envoy to the middle east to try to get the peace process back on track which is more than enough reason to grant an Arab network a TV interview. I assume if Obama were sending an envoy to some other world hotspot, he'd have been more likely to grant an interview to the local media there.
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Re: Just WHAT did you expect from him?

#31 Post by silverscreenselect » Tue Jan 27, 2009 9:08 am

Flybrick wrote: Oh, and I see a lack of comments about the publicized 'ethics in this Administration' to include no lobbyists unless Obama grants a waiver.

Which he did to his selection for Deputy Secretary of Defense.

Change we can believe in?

I don't mind a politician being a politician, it's the hype and hypocrisy that irritates.
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Re: Just WHAT did you expect from him?

#32 Post by minimetoo26 » Tue Jan 27, 2009 9:09 am

Flybrick wrote:
minimetoo26 wrote:
I have no idea what you're hoping for. If everything is peachy-keen in your world and you have nothing to hope for, well good for you.

Some of us are hoping for a vague notion of "better". I can't speak for the whole world, obviously. (Clearly? :P )

And the role of the press is to merely report. Some have forgotten that.
For the things I want to be better in my world, am I to count on the government to fix?

For the American economy, specifically, am I to rely on the government to fix?

If that is your contention, I don't know that it is, but it would appear so, then we have different expectations of government as well as the proper role of government.

Please, tell me what you expect the government to do regarding either the economy or your personal world.

Regarding the press, do we agree on something? Or did I miss your intent? If some have forgotten that, to whom do you refer?

For the first one, what do you want to be better in your world? You still haven't said. If you're just hoping for a different president, you're out of luck. I'm happy to have a leader who doesn't divide people into "us" and "them" offhandedly.

Regarding the economy, I expect the government to keep a better eye on the guys who hold the money, to make sure no more people get paid exhorbitant sums to run companies into the ground, then expect me to clean up the mess they made. Once is more than enough for me.

We may agree on the press. My intent was to answer the straightforward question as to their role. I inferred you considered they had a role other than reporting, since you asked. I may have misread YOUR intent.
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Re: Just WHAT did you expect from him?

#33 Post by Jeemie » Tue Jan 27, 2009 9:11 am

Mini, do you TRULY believe Obama doesn't divide us into "us" and "them"?
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Re: Just WHAT did you expect from him?

#34 Post by mrkelley23 » Tue Jan 27, 2009 9:18 am

Here's what I think, just to scattershot reply to the whole thread:

It doesn't bother me that Pres. Obama granted his first foreign interview to Al-Arabiya at all. It's certainly better than Al-Jazeera, and makes more sense than most foreign outlets. To say that this is his first interview as President is disingenuous at best, since he has been all over the news for the past week. At least he's actually had a press conference, which many Presidents have run from like the devil, including our most recent one.

My soul thrills every time I hear a news story that begins, "In another reversal of Bush Administration policy..."

I'm not surprised that people are shocked, shocked to find out that banks and financial institutions, as well as auto companies and other corporations benefiting from the "bailout programs (sic)" are abusing the money and trust they received from the American people. The people at the top of these companies did not have to experience any pain, so why should they change the way they do business? American workers, OTOH, are experiencing plenty of pain, are anticipating more pain, and have changed the way they do business. They're spending less, which causes Wall Street types to bemoan the poor benighted American consumer, who doesn't understand that the way out of this crisis is to spend and spend and spend some more (sic again!).

For all the complaining about the American government moving toward a "European model," which usually seems to mean a more socialistic government, I'm surprised that more people aren't complaining about the move by our journalistic media toward a European model, which is a heavily partisan press that survives by pumping up its core audience, not by reporting the news. Now American newspapers are disappearing, American television news is a fractious jumble of partisan bickering, and the WWW, which actually showed promise as a new journalistic model, has unfortunately followed the TV folks down the crapper.

I'm extremely skeptical that Pres. Obama's stimulus package, or bailout, or whatever you want to call it, will have any appreciable effect on the American economy at large. First of all, as a federal program, we can pretty much write off 20% of the money as wasted. Forty percent will go to programs that should have started a long time ago, and the other 40% will just be earmarks dressed up as something else. (I'm not going to make any sexist comments about lipstick on a pig, however.)

I, too, decry the increasing presence of government control of private industry. If only our corporate leaders as a whole were more like Warren Buffett, and less like Kenny Boy Lay and John Thain, perhaps there wouldn't be the political will to try such blatantly socialistic nonsense. But I also have to say that both parties have contributed equally to this vigor for nationalization. You can't blame it exclusively on the Dems, any more than a reasonable person can blame our current economic crisis exclusively on former President Bush.

Former President Bush

Former President Bush

(sigh)
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Re: Just WHAT did you expect from him?

#35 Post by minimetoo26 » Tue Jan 27, 2009 9:19 am

Jeemie wrote:Mini, do you TRULY believe Obama doesn't divide us into "us" and "them"?

I haven't seen any examples so far. He is reaching out to "them"* to make sure they better understand "us"* and BiT's having apoplexy about it.

*Using the divisions that are brought to mind by this thread. Being Muslim doesn't automatically make you anti-American. Or even Un-American, for that matter.
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Re: Just WHAT did you expect from him?

#36 Post by a1mamacat » Tue Jan 27, 2009 9:22 am

mrkelley23 wrote:


Former President Bush

Former President Bush

(sigh)
Jeez Louise, take it behind closed doors!!! :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops:
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Re: Just WHAT did you expect from him?

#37 Post by Flybrick » Tue Jan 27, 2009 9:25 am

min, my personal world is actually quite good and I thank my God for that every day. I realize that many don't have such a deal going. For them, I pray and wish well.

Regarding your not paying corporate idiots fantastic sums, I disagree. That is the free market. Or it used to be.

The government not bailing them out, I agree with. Them not getting large chunks of tax dollars to be paid that ginormous salary as, essentially, a government employee, I agree with.

But if government hadn't stepped in to start with, the company would survive or fail on its own. As it should.

As for the government keeping an eye on the economy, who's eye? The Treasury? Or the House and Senate Banking Committees? Loans made by Freddie/Fannie that were made via direct pressure from Barney Frank or Chris Dodd have now gone south because they were made with people who obviously couldn't afford it. Those are the ones you want to look out for us?

Regarding the press, I think we agree. I believe the media should dig, investigate, and report. Not editorialize, not skew the story, not slant it to fit their desired outcome. Present the basics of who, what, where, when, why for both sides of the issue and then shut up.

It is my contention, that the majority of the press do not do that, both left and right. The coverage of the Inauguration was a love fest by the news networks. Not reports on the size of the crowd, what was said, but gushing man-crushes of Obama by ABC/NBC (forget MSNBC, "We're the network of change" said on the air during the ceremony)/CBS/CNN. Fox was off the side muttering snidely.

Now, your turn, what do you want the government to do? Either for the Middle East, the economy, or you specifically?

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Re: Just WHAT did you expect from him?

#38 Post by minimetoo26 » Tue Jan 27, 2009 9:25 am

a1mamacat wrote:
mrkelley23 wrote:


Former President Bush

Former President Bush

(sigh)
Jeez Louise, take it behind closed doors!!! :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops:
Just make sure there's enough space under the door so George can see MrK's feet tapping.... :P
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Re: Just WHAT did you expect from him?

#39 Post by Jeemie » Tue Jan 27, 2009 9:33 am

Flybrick wrote:As for the government keeping an eye on the economy, who's eye? The Treasury? Or the House and Senate Banking Committees? Loans made by Freddie/Fannie that were made via direct pressure from Barney Frank or Chris Dodd have now gone south because they were made with people who obviously couldn't afford it. Those are the ones you want to look out for us?
There are many things on which to blame the government (both Dem and Rep), but would you stop repeating this lie?

The vast majority of loans that have failed are NON-CRA-regulated loans.

Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, and the beefed-up Community Reinvestment Act did NOT cause this mess. That is a right-wing talking point.
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Re: Just WHAT did you expect from him?

#40 Post by minimetoo26 » Tue Jan 27, 2009 9:34 am

Now, your turn, what do you want the government to do? Either for the Middle East, the economy, or you specifically?
I'm not the one with the problem with the government. They can stay out of people's personal lives, and I'm good. They can do their job competently, and I'm good. I have a great life myself, but I'm aware there are others nowhere near as fortunate as I am and I don't just think "tough luck to you, loser" so I have no problem with the government helping to provide health care and school lunches to the kids.

As far as the Middle East goes, that's a mess going back centuries, but saying that we don't automatically hate them because they're different is a positive step, (IMHO, for Beebs...)
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Re: Just WHAT did you expect from him?

#41 Post by Ebeneezer Beast » Tue Jan 27, 2009 9:37 am

minimetoo26 wrote:
Now, your turn, what do you want the government to do? Either for the Middle East, the economy, or you specifically?
I'm not the one with the problem with the government. They can stay out of people's personal lives, and I'm good. They can do their job competently, and I'm good. I have a great life myself, but I'm aware there are others nowhere near as fortunate as I am and I don't just think "tough luck to you, loser" so I have no problem with the government helping to provide health care and school lunches to the kids.

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Re: Just WHAT did you expect from him?

#42 Post by minimetoo26 » Tue Jan 27, 2009 9:39 am

Ebeneezer Beast wrote:
minimetoo26 wrote:
Now, your turn, what do you want the government to do? Either for the Middle East, the economy, or you specifically?
I'm not the one with the problem with the government. They can stay out of people's personal lives, and I'm good. They can do their job competently, and I'm good. I have a great life myself, but I'm aware there are others nowhere near as fortunate as I am and I don't just think "tough luck to you, loser" so I have no problem with the government helping to provide health care and school lunches to the kids.

BAH! Let them eat out of the gutter!
Toss 'em some Squirrel Chow...
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Re: Just WHAT did you expect from him?

#43 Post by Flybrick » Tue Jan 27, 2009 9:39 am

Jeemie wrote:[

Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, and the beefed-up Community Reinvestment Act did NOT cause this mess. That is a right-wing talking point.
They didn't help and they/the situation DID contribute to the current mess in mortgages. The sole reason? No. A factor? Yes.

Right wing talking point? Dang, here I thought my gathering information and forming an opinion of my own was being a responsible citizen. I did not know I was an unwitting dupe for the right wing.

Where is their office anyway?

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Re: Just WHAT did you expect from him?

#44 Post by Jeemie » Tue Jan 27, 2009 9:41 am

Flybrick wrote:
Jeemie wrote:[

Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, and the beefed-up Community Reinvestment Act did NOT cause this mess. That is a right-wing talking point.
They didn't help and they/the situation DID contribute to the current mess in mortgages. The sole reason? No. A factor? Yes.

Right wing talking point? Dang, here I thought my gathering information and forming an opinion of my own was being a responsible citizen. I did not know I was an unwitting dupe for the right wing.

Where is their office anyway?
If you thought this up on your own, you can explain to me how their loans failed at a much lower rate than non-CRA-regulated loans, but yet they "contributed to the mess".
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Re: Just WHAT did you expect from him?

#45 Post by Flybrick » Tue Jan 27, 2009 9:53 am

minimetoo26 wrote: I'm not the one with the problem with the government. They can stay out of people's personal lives, and I'm good. They can do their job competently, and I'm good. I have a great life myself, but I'm aware there are others nowhere near as fortunate as I am and I don't just think "tough luck to you, loser" so I have no problem with the government helping to provide health care and school lunches to the kids.

As far as the Middle East goes, that's a mess going back centuries, but saying that we don't automatically hate them because they're different is a positive step, (IMHO, for Beebs...)
Stay out of peoples' personal lives? I'm all for that. It doesn't. And under a growth in government of private means of production, I believe that will increase. I'm willing, as if I had a choice, to see what happens.

For all the Scrooge comments about, roughly, 'screw the unfortunate!' Nice. Please note that nowhere have I said that. Cradle to grave government care of the population is also not attractive.

Please to point out where any US Government has said we hate them (Middle Easterners) automatically. I guess because it was Bush saying it, you discount the many speeches he gave regarding terrorism and that Muslims are not the problem. That extremist and terrorist are.

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Re: Just WHAT did you expect from him?

#46 Post by minimetoo26 » Tue Jan 27, 2009 9:58 am

For all the Scrooge comments about, roughly, 'screw the unfortunate!' Nice. Please note that nowhere have I said that. Cradle to grave government care of the population is also not attractive.
I didn't say you said that. You asked me what I wanted. It isn't automatically the opposite of what you want even though we tend to think differently on things.

Please to point out where any US Government has said we hate them (Middle Easterners) automatically.

Once again, I never said that, either. I said I was happy to have a leader who didn't seem to think that. The poster who started this thread seemed to think that talking to the Arab press and not the American amounted to treason (okay, I'm exaggerating here, as usual) and that was what I was referring to.
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Re: Just WHAT did you expect from him?

#47 Post by Flybrick » Tue Jan 27, 2009 10:00 am

Jeemie wrote: If you thought this up on your own, you can explain to me how their loans failed at a much lower rate than non-CRA-regulated loans, but yet they "contributed to the mess".
"Loans failed." A contributing factor. Thank you for the confirmation.

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Re: Just WHAT did you expect from him?

#48 Post by Jeemie » Tue Jan 27, 2009 10:08 am

Flybrick wrote:
Jeemie wrote: If you thought this up on your own, you can explain to me how their loans failed at a much lower rate than non-CRA-regulated loans, but yet they "contributed to the mess".
"Loans failed." A contributing factor. Thank you for the confirmation.
But you led with it in your post like Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac/CRA were a MAJOR contributing factor...when they were not.

Not even close to being a major factor.

This is why I called it a "right-wing talking point"- because it's been bandied about as being THE factor that contributed to our currrent mess, and the way you led with it made it look as though you agreed with that assessment....even to the point of mentioning Barney Frank and "government pressure" just like the right-wing talkbots always do.
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Re: Just WHAT did you expect from him?

#49 Post by silverscreenselect » Tue Jan 27, 2009 10:24 am

Flybrick wrote:
Jeemie wrote:[

Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, and the beefed-up Community Reinvestment Act did NOT cause this mess. That is a right-wing talking point.
They didn't help and they/the situation DID contribute to the current mess in mortgages. The sole reason? No. A factor? Yes.
Every mortgage that failed "contributed" to the mess. However, CRA loans were still issued within traditional underwriting guidelines, with the modest interest premium being sufficient under most circumstances to take care of the additional risk.

The failed loans were non-regulated and made no sense whatsoever from any logical risk management standpoint. Many of them were practically open invitations to defaults either by people buying way more house than they could afford or people buying houses on spec as a business investment.

The right loves to picture this mess as a case of liberals forcing banks to make loans to shiftless minorities, but the companies making these loans were pumping them out as fast as they could with as inflated a book value as they could so they could then turn around and repackage them and palm them off to financial institutions to whom the packaged paper looked good "on paper."
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Re: Just WHAT did you expect from him?

#50 Post by Flybrick » Tue Jan 27, 2009 10:25 am

Jeemie wrote:
But you led with it in your post like Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac/CRA were a MAJOR contributing factor...when they were not.
No, I led with the Treasury:
As for the government keeping an eye on the economy, who's eye? The Treasury? Or the House and Senate Banking Committees? Loans made by Freddie/Fannie that were made via direct pressure from Barney Frank or Chris Dodd have now gone south because they were made with people who obviously couldn't afford it. Those are the ones you want to look out for us?


followed by the two Congressional Committees. The same group, Executive and Legislative, that were in charge during the current mess. minie wanted the government to watch for her. Then the example about Freddie/Fannie, so at best it was a third point. Hence, a contributing factor.

I just happen to dislike Barney Frank's and Chris Dodd's hypocrisy so I used them for effect. As they are the chairs of the respective committees, it fit nicely with my post.

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