ATE vs STQ

[MarleysGh0st]

Okay, I think I fixed that pesky ontopicosity streak I had going on there.

JJ would be so proud.....

Awwww, don't let the ref distract you!

I'm running this poll.

[Al_Haig]

Okay, I think I fixed that pesky ontopicosity streak I had going on there.

JJ would be so proud.....

Awwww, don't let the ref distract you!

I'm running this poll.

I'm running this poll!!!!

[peacock2121]

As long as the show remained "they ask a question', 'you answer', 'you be right', 'you get money'.

Where the bastardization?

They have bastardized how you get on the show, but not the basic (the really basic) format of the show.

[gsabc]

As long as the show remained "they ask a question', 'you answer', 'you be right', 'you get money'.

Where the bastardization?

They have bastardized how you get on the show, but not the basic (the really basic) format of the show.

Great trivia game show title in here.

"Welcome to 'You Be Right, You Get Money'!"

[peacock2121]

As long as the show remained "they ask a question', 'you answer', 'you be right', 'you get money'.

Where the bastardization?

They have bastardized how you get on the show, but not the basic (the really basic) format of the show.

Great trivia game show title in here.

"Welcome to 'You Be Right, You Get Money'!"

Start pitching it - it is yours.

[MarleysGh0st]

As long as the show remained "they ask a question', 'you answer', 'you be right', 'you get money'.

Where the bastardization?

They have bastardized how you get on the show, but not the basic (the really basic) format of the show.

I admit that my objectivity in running this poll is at the level of a push poll, but I used that word as (biased) interpretation of the replies made by fishie and gsabc. And I said that would be the subject of a different poll.

However, to answer your question, I'll observe that Are You Smarter Than A 5th Grader also follows the same basic format you mention. Shall we discuss if that could be considered a bastardization of the format? (Granted, how folks get on that show is a very big part of it.)

[WheresFanny]

Okay, I think I fixed that pesky ontopicosity streak I had going on there.

JJ would be so proud.....

Awwww, don't let the ref distract you!

I'm running this poll.

I didn't actually vote in the poll. For the reasons I gave before the offtopicosity took over my being.

[MarleysGh0st]

I didn't actually vote in the poll. For the reasons I gave before the offtopicosity took over my being.

But your posting was on-topic! Until that referee guy blew his silly whistle.

Now let me address those comments...

[WheresFanny]

I didn't actually vote in the poll. For the reasons I gave before the offtopicosity took over my being.

But your posting was on-topic! Until that referee guy blew his silly whistle.

Now let me address those comments...

Please do, I put at least a bit of thought into my answer and am actually interested in your take.

[clem21]

My response here is in the minority because I just ask myself one simple question:

Would you rather have a chance to get a near-automatic correct answer (If you've got KJ or Ogi for instance) or a chance to somehow come up with a high level question that you know without help?

Keeping in mind that you get ATE at $1000, I'd rather have the former as erratic as it is.

[WheresFanny]

My response here is in the minority because I just ask myself one simple question:

Would you rather have a chance to get a near-automatic correct answer (If you've got KJ or Ogi for instance) or a chance to somehow come up with a high level question that you know without help?

Keeping in mind that you get ATE at $1000, I'd rather have the former as erratic as it is.

If one has a great deal of faith in KJ or Ogi, that would make sense. I don't necessarily have that (not saying that I'd choose Steven Cojocaru over either of them, though. Ha!).

[MarleysGh0st]

I think it would depend on whether other circumstances remain the same. The only show I've seen this year is Meisha's, but I understand that the Category Tree and Clock came into being at the same time as the ATE.

Whether the Category Tree and Clock were still in place would make a difference.

Clock: If you think you can get a handle on it, but need a bit of time to suss it out, you can vamp while Meredith gabs with the Expert and they prattle on a bit to get a little more face time for themselves. Plus, you never know what somebody might know just because they happened to hear it somewhere and it's totally unrelated to their professions, or whatnot. Like Dr. Joyce Brothers and boxing, who'da thunk that?

Category Tree: If the STQ is going to be in the same category, you'd have a better confidence rate at whether or not to use the STQ. If it's something like science or (say it with me, y'all!) geography, I wouldn't be too quick to use the STQ, because my chances aren't good that I can answer the next one, either. If it's something like Humanists of the Italian Renaissance or Hair Bands of the 80's, the odds are much better that the first question was just something I didn't know and I'll have a pretty good shot at getting the next one if I use the STQ.

You're right that the ATE has some value as a Stop The Clock lifeline. I don't know if any of the contestants deliberately used it for that purpose this season or if they just happened to think things through while the expert rambled on about nothing.

As for the Category Tree, TPTB never did explain how that used to work, i.e., how they selected the substitute questions. Did each stack have another set of substitute questions ready or were there one set of substitutes on standby for whenever a contestant called for one at that dollar value? It would aggravate me when the substitute covered the same subject as the question the contestants wanted to avoid; I'd had preferred it to deliver something from a totally different topic.

The season, that Category Tree seems to primarily be a source of humor. The topics are so vague and so quirky that you can't really predict what the subject matter might be. How many people guessed that yesterday's "Bugs" topic would be about Bugs Bunny and not entomology? Anyway, those topics seem customized for particular questions, not for something more general.

One way I've suggested the STQ could work with the Category Tree would be to treat it as Skip The Question. Each stack would list 16 topics, with the last one being an alternate $1 million question. If a contestant used the STQ at the $25K level, they'd skip that question and proceed to the one that would otherwise have been worth $50K, then proceed as usual through the rest of the stack. If they never use the STQ, then the 16th question would never been used. (Or, hey, they could go ahead and use it as a new $2 million level. As if we'll ever see anyone get that high, these days.)

[MarleysGh0st]

My response here is in the minority because I just ask myself one simple question:

Would you rather have a chance to get a near-automatic correct answer (If you've got KJ or Ogi for instance) or a chance to somehow come up with a high level question that you know without help?

But it's entirely outside your control if you get an Ogi or a Cojo. (And even Ogi can't answer every question!) You ought to compare those random chances with your own batting averages (if you're one of those who track those statistics). If you're stuck on a $50K WWOQ and you average, say, 75% getting that level right, might that not be better than hoping you'll get an expert who might know the answer to that WWOQ?

Keeping in mind that you get ATE at $1000, I'd rather have the former as erratic as it is.

True, getting the 4th lifeline at $1K instead of at $25K is an advantage. I can think of two reasons why TPTB decided to do that:
1. They wanted to be more generous to the contestants.
2. They realized it would too frustrating for TPTB and the experts to see so many contestants never getting the chance to call on the experts. An earlier lifeline means more chatting opportunities.

TPTB haven't said, but I'm leaning towards explanation #2.

[WheresFanny]

The season, that Category Tree seems to primarily be a source of humor. The topics are so vague and so quirky that you can't really predict what the subject matter might be. How many people guessed that yesterday's "Bugs" topic would be about Bugs Bunny and not entomology? Anyway, those topics seem customized for particular questions, not for something more general.

One way I've suggested the STQ could work with the Category Tree would be to treat it as Skip The Question. Each stack would list 16 topics, with the last one being an alternate $1 million question. If a contestant used the STQ at the $25K level, they'd skip that question and proceed to the one that would otherwise have been worth $50K, then proceed as usual through the rest of the stack. If they never use the STQ, then the 16th question would never been used. (Or, hey, they could go ahead and use it as a new $2 million level. As if we'll ever see anyone get that high, these days.)

As for the category tree, unless they had a rabbit question and a bug question ready, seeing the first question should give you a clue as to what your alternate one would encompass.

For Skip the Question, would you be skipping that dollar tier or essentially be answering a higher tier question for your current tier from then on out (you use it at 25k and you're answering a 50k for 25k, answering a 125k for 50k, etc.)?

I think I'd still rather give myself two shots than put my trust in somebody else for one shot (unless, like I said before, I just need a little more time or I have an idea and could noodle it out with the expert). My biggest fear would be the expert not knowing what they don't know, which I think from reading a few transcripts has happened several times, i.e. an expert ruling out an answer and that ends up being the correct one.

[WheresFanny]

Hey, this ontopicosity stuff is kinda fun!

[Bob78164]

But it's entirely outside your control if you get an Ogi or a Cojo. (And even Ogi can't answer every question!) You ought to compare those random chances with your own batting averages (if you're one of those who track those statistics). If you're stuck on a $50K WWOQ and you average, say, 75% getting that level right, might that not be better than hoping you'll get an expert who might know the answer to that WWOQ?

I did track my statistics at $50,000 and above while STQ was in use, and my percentage at that level never came close to 75%. If memory serves, I hovered a little below 60%, which was right around my Final Jeopardy! correct percentage when I cared about such things.

I suspect that very few, if any, of us manage 75% at the $50,000 level. --Bob

[MarleysGh0st]

As for the category tree, unless they had a rabbit question and a bug question ready, seeing the first question should give you a clue as to what your alternate one would encompass.

For Skip the Question, would you be skipping that dollar tier or essentially be answering a higher tier question for your current tier from then on out (you use it at 25k and you're answering a 50k for 25k, answering a 125k for 50k, etc.)?

In my proposal, yes, that's how it would work. If you decide to STQ on the Bugs question, you'd know that you'd get the Eastern Wisdom question next (to use Vernon's stack as an example). And, so far as setting the dollar levels is an inexact science, you'd be answering questions that were one tier higher than you would have if you hadn't STQed.

I liked the STQ as an antidote to those WWOQs that we've been seeing so often. The question writers give contestants oddball questions this season and the contestants are stuck; they have to get an answer to it or they're finished. STQ would let you throw one out.

[TheCalvinator24]

But it's entirely outside your control if you get an Ogi or a Cojo. (And even Ogi can't answer every question!) You ought to compare those random chances with your own batting averages (if you're one of those who track those statistics). If you're stuck on a $50K WWOQ and you average, say, 75% getting that level right, might that not be better than hoping you'll get an expert who might know the answer to that WWOQ?

I did track my statistics at $50,000 and above while STQ was in use, and my percentage at that level never came close to 75%. If memory serves, I hovered a little below 60%, which was right around my Final Jeopardy! correct percentage when I cared about such things.

I suspect that very few, if any, of us manage 75% at the $50,000 level. --Bob

If that's true, then they definitely have ramped up the difficulty level. I tracked my batting average for the Prime-time show before I appeared. IIRC, without using any lifeline, I was around 75% on the $125K questions and fairly close to that on $250K. After that, there was a dramatic dip. My lowest success rate was on the $500K questions, under 50%. Precisely the level from which I had to walk.

The only number I remember with any definiteness was the $1MM questions, for which I had a 50% rate.

[MarleysGh0st]

Hey, this ontopicosity stuff is kinda fun!

Isn't it, though?

Wanna talk about The Phone Game, next?

[MarleysGh0st]

I suspect that very few, if any, of us manage 75% at the $50,000 level. --Bob

I picked a number for example's sake, Bob. YMMV.

Shall we guess how well these experts would do with $50K questions?

[Bob78164]

But it's entirely outside your control if you get an Ogi or a Cojo. (And even Ogi can't answer every question!) You ought to compare those random chances with your own batting averages (if you're one of those who track those statistics). If you're stuck on a $50K WWOQ and you average, say, 75% getting that level right, might that not be better than hoping you'll get an expert who might know the answer to that WWOQ?

I did track my statistics at $50,000 and above while STQ was in use, and my percentage at that level never came close to 75%. If memory serves, I hovered a little below 60%, which was right around my Final Jeopardy! correct percentage when I cared about such things.

I suspect that very few, if any, of us manage 75% at the $50,000 level. --Bob

If that's true, then they definitely have ramped up the difficulty level. I tracked my batting average for the Prime-time show before I appeared. IIRC, without using any lifeline, I was around 75% on the $125K questions and fairly close to that on $250K. After that, there was a dramatic dip. My lowest success rate was on the $500K questions, under 50%. Precisely the level from which I had to walk.

The only number I remember with any definiteness was the $1MM questions, for which I had a 50% rate.

I think Davies has publicly acknowledged that SyndieBAM questions are intended to be more difficult than Prime Time BAM questions at the same level. Over the four years of the STQ lifeline, I batted 26 for 50 at the $250,000 level and 3 for 12 at the $500,000 level. (This omits subject matter specialty editions.) --Bob