WWTBAM Bored

frogman042 wrote:

flockofseagulls104 wrote:

frogman042 wrote: Please list at least 5 politicians that are advocating open borders - that is a strawman and you know it. As far as I can tell, the reason it has happened for so long is the free market system where many companies like the ability to draw on cheap labor that the immigrants provided and being able to take advantage of their vulnerability because they were able to exploit their tenuous status. Is it not reasonable to think that the reason politicians haven't tried to reform the immigration policy is in a large part due to the clout these businesses have and their desire not to have to deal with these workers legally when they benefit so much more if they are undocumented?

Every politician who is not working feverishly to close the borders to illegal immigration is supporting open borders. For whatever reason. Whether they do it to please big corporate donors or to build the underclass in hope of more votes. We cannot possibly deal with the millions of illegal aliens here already without making sure we don't keep getting new ones. It's time to stop the posturing and either fix the system that is broken or enforce the system that is in place. But whatever, it's up to Congress.

So you can't name any politician that is actively supporting open borders - got it.

Your response of:

Every politician who is not working feverishly to close the borders to illegal immigration is supporting open borders. For whatever reason.

can be rewritten as:

Every politician who is not working feverishly to prevent every single driver from exceeding the speed limit is supporting having no speed limits on our nations highways. For whatever reason.

Is that 2nd version logical to you? If not, then neither is your example.

Of course, since we are at record unemployment, the economy is strong and America is the greatest country in the world - even with the existence of millions of undocumented aliens - I'm curious how you would back up you claim that 'we cannot possibly deal with the millions of illegal aliens here already' - it looks like we are somehow managing to deal with it.

Again - here is a challenge - show that the cost to America for these undocumented aliens is significantly greater, in terms of lost of lives, bodily injury, financially (loss of income, GDP, families, etc) than the loss due to accidents caused by those breaking the speed limit laws. Which is the bigger problem and which should be more aggressively addressed? There are many issues that we as Americans should be dealing with - I would like to see the data points to illegal immigration as being as one of the most severe and that it needs to be at or near the top of the list.

a1mamacat wrote:

flockofseagulls104 wrote:

jarnon wrote:Canada won't allow that. Le Canada ne le permettra pas.

Illegal border crossings are not, and will not, be tolerated: Goodale

Why don't we hear this mantra from the left? "All the civilized, first world countries have strict border controls, except the US."

None of the civilized first world countries, except the US, cruelly separate minor children from their parents and place them in different detention centers.

Canada is also reviewing whether or not the US can be considered a "safe third country" any longer.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada ... -1.4711030

Beebs52 wrote:

a1mamacat wrote:

flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Why don't we hear this mantra from the left? "All the civilized, first world countries have strict border controls, except the US."

None of the civilized first world countries, except the US, cruelly separate minor children from their parents and place them in different detention centers.

Canada is also reviewing whether or not the US can be considered a "safe third country" any longer.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada ... -1.4711030

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.thegua ... nder-trump

Beebs52 wrote:

a1mamacat wrote:

flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Why don't we hear this mantra from the left? "All the civilized, first world countries have strict border controls, except the US."

None of the civilized first world countries, except the US, cruelly separate minor children from their parents and place them in different detention centers.

Canada is also reviewing whether or not the US can be considered a "safe third country" any longer.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada ... -1.4711030

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.thegua ... nder-trump

a1mamacat wrote:

Beebs52 wrote:

a1mamacat wrote:
None of the civilized first world countries, except the US, cruelly separate minor children from their parents and place them in different detention centers.

Canada is also reviewing whether or not the US can be considered a "safe third country" any longer.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada ... -1.4711030

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.thegua ... nder-trump

Here’s how Canada deals with migrant parents, children and detention

https://globalnews.ca/news/4283134/cana ... detention/

BackInTex wrote:

a1mamacat wrote:

Beebs52 wrote:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.thegua ... nder-trump

Here’s how Canada deals with migrant parents, children and detention

https://globalnews.ca/news/4283134/cana ... detention/

Do you know the stats of illegal immigrant families trying to get in Canada vs the US?

a1mamacat wrote:

BackInTex wrote:

a1mamacat wrote:

Here’s how Canada deals with migrant parents, children and detention

https://globalnews.ca/news/4283134/cana ... detention/

Do you know the stats of illegal immigrant families trying to get in Canada vs the US?

Humanity in not a stat. Children are not stats. Compassion is not a stat.

Deport them back to terror if you must, but stop inflicting more on them. America has ceded is right to claim the moral high ground.

flockofseagulls104 wrote:Laura Ingraham reported that there used to be 3 Family Detention Centers so that people with children who illegally crossed into our country could be detained together without separation. But some activist groups brought a lawsuit and a judge ordered these facilities to be closed. I checked (as I usually do to verify reports I hadn't heard of before) and found this verification from NPR. The Obama administration opposed the judge's decision, to their credit, but apparently, they were closed.

https://www.npr.org/2015/07/27/42667430 ... ould-close

a1mamacat wrote: Humanity in not a stat. Children are not stats. Compassion is not a stat.

Deport them back to terror if you must, but stop inflicting more on them. America has ceded is right to claim the moral high ground.

BackInTex wrote:

a1mamacat wrote: Humanity in not a stat. Children are not stats. Compassion is not a stat.

Deport them back to terror if you must, but stop inflicting more on them. America has ceded is right to claim the moral high ground.

If that is how you and Canada feel, please send your buses to McAllen, TX to pick up your new residents.

But you won't.

jarnon wrote:I’m annoyed when I hear that separating families is an effective deterrent . . . .

Bob78164 wrote: it's not even accomplishing its goals. --Bob

Janelle Wong wrote:My research indicates white evangelical conservatism correlates strongly with their perceptions [of] anti-white discrimination, even after taking into account economic status, party, age and region. Fully 50 percent of white evangelical respondents to our 2016 survey reported feeling they face discrimination that’s comparable to, or even higher than, the discrimination they believe Muslim Americans face. . . .

Here’s what is not behind these beliefs: economic anxiety. Like PRRI and political scientist Diana Mutz, I find economic anxiety isn’t a primary reason for supporting Trump. Rather, white evangelicals fear losing racial status.

Bob78164 wrote:In my experience, when people are driven by fear, there's simply no reasoning with them.

BackInTex wrote: the media is pumping fear into the liberal base,

silverscreenselect wrote:

BackInTex wrote: the media is pumping fear into the liberal base,

And it's not just the "liberal base" that's turned against Trump. It's essentially everyone except his hardcore supporters. And Putin. And maybe Kim.

Bob78164 wrote:Politico reports that the Administration is preparing to end family separation. By executive action. No legislation needed. So much for Donny's claims that it was all Congress's fault, or the Democrats' fault. It turns out he could have ended the policy of ripping kids from their parents' arms any time he wanted to.

Thanks to public outcry, now he wants to. He'll try to spin it as something he wanted to do all along, but the reality is that Donny had his hand forced by the fundamental decency of the American people and our willingness to stand up and say, "This is wrong and we won't permit our government to do it in our names." --Bob

Bob78164 wrote:ripping kids from their parents' arms

Bob78164 wrote:Politico reports that the Administration is preparing to end family separation. --Bob

tlynn78 wrote:

Bob78164 wrote:Politico reports that the Administration is preparing to end family separation. --Bob

Oh no! What will Nancy and Chuck use next to whip up their sheep, and distract from record low unemployment, bustling economy, the closest thing to peace on the Korean peninsula we've seen in decades? How dare Trump do just what people have been demanding of him!

Immigrants who come to points of entry to seek asylum aren’t actually illegally in the country – they’re not arrested. They’re processed through ICE, and their children stay with them. If, however, illegal immigrants cross the border illegally, the Trump administration now treats them as criminals. If they choose deportation, they aren’t separated from their kids; if they choose to apply for asylum, they stay in the country longer than 20 days, and their kids have to be removed by operation of law.

BackInTex wrote:What I hope Trump signs today:

Forcing the parents with children who enter illegally to be deported immediately. Right now, the parents who enter illegally have a choice; be deported with your children or be placed in custody and have the children held separately. This will solve the problem of children being separated. That IS the only problem, right?

There is a legal alternative for the parents. They are just not choosing it. Maybe because the marketing literature sent them from the previous administration on how to "get into this country" was not pushing legal entry.

What really is happening

Legal asylum seekers are NOT being separated from their children.

Parents who's children are being separated (because they chose to enter illegally) ARE MAKING THAT CHOICE (to be separated from their children) rather than being deported immediately.

Immigrants who come to points of entry to seek asylum aren’t actually illegally in the country – they’re not arrested. They’re processed through ICE, and their children stay with them. If, however, illegal immigrants cross the border illegally, the Trump administration now treats them as criminals. If they choose deportation, they aren’t separated from their kids; if they choose to apply for asylum, they stay in the country longer than 20 days, and their kids have to be removed by operation of law.

tlynn78 wrote:Immigrants who come to points of entry to seek asylum aren’t actually illegally in the country – they’re not arrested. They’re processed through ICE, and their children stay with them. If, however, illegal immigrants cross the border illegally, the Trump administration now treats them as criminals. If they choose deportation, they aren’t separated from their kids; if they choose to apply for asylum, they stay in the country longer than 20 days, and their kids have to be removed by operation of law.

jarnon wrote:

tlynn78 wrote:Immigrants who come to points of entry to seek asylum aren’t actually illegally in the country – they’re not arrested. They’re processed through ICE, and their children stay with them. If, however, illegal immigrants cross the border illegally, the Trump administration now treats them as criminals. If they choose deportation, they aren’t separated from their kids; if they choose to apply for asylum, they stay in the country longer than 20 days, and their kids have to be removed by operation of law.

Watch the U.S. Turn Away Asylum Seekers at the Border

Anything Trump does is just a band-aid. The legal entry points are overwhelmed, as is the immigration judicial system. Congress should provide resources to accept and detain asylum seekers, to decide their cases more quickly, and to make it possible to keep families together longer than 20 days if necessary.