peacock2121 wrote:reality is a whole other subject.littlebeast13 wrote:Bored sweepers have beliefs too.peacock2121 wrote:Uh oh
You said if
You are living in the sweeper's reality whether you agree with him or not. Deal with it....
lb13
I will not be starting that thread.
You bad!christie1111 wrote:peacock2121 wrote:reality is a whole other subject.littlebeast13 wrote: Bored sweepers have beliefs too.
You are living in the sweeper's reality whether you agree with him or not. Deal with it....
lb13
I will not be starting that thread.
Thank God!
Oops!
Neither.Bob Juch wrote:As I said, I'm not going to participate in a discussion here, but let me throw out a question for you all to discuss:
Who is a better person; A Christian who leads an exemplary life because he fears hell and wants to go to heaven or an atheist who leads the same exemplary life but does not believe in an afterlife?
Pea-I don't know if you will ever know how much I appreciate this post. It is thoughtful and truthful and kind.peacock2121 wrote:I didn't read tocque as saying she had the quality she admired. She did not display that quality, you are correct. I read her as saying I displayed that quality and she acknowledged that. I think tocque would readily agree that she struggles with not getting snarky or offensive (being on the offense, not the other meaning). She might even call that a sin, I don't know.
I have learned that tocque knows that she is not usually the person her God teaches her to be. I also know that she doesn't think that it is personal to her - it is what it is to be human.
The 'it is what it is to be human' is where tocque and I agree. We are all flawed and struggle, to some extent to be 'better'. The what is better and who says what is better is where our paths start to diverge. She looks to God (or the Bible), I don't. I look to who I want to be, the person who fulfills me and represent who I want to represent. I fail as often as the next guy in being that, just like tocque fails.
I have studiously tried to avoid this thread, but I must comment on this. I don't think that a true Christian leads his or her life out of fear of hell or wanting to go to heaven. A Christian leads "an exemplary life" because of the teachings of Scripture and the example of Jesus. As an anonymous poet wrote in a poem that has been wonderfully set to music:Bob Juch wrote:As I said, I'm not going to participate in a discussion here, but let me throw out a question for you all to discuss:
Who is a better person; A Christian who leads an exemplary life because he fears hell and wants to go to heaven or an atheist who leads the same exemplary life but does not believe in an afterlife?
Bob Juch wrote:As I said, I'm not going to participate in a discussion here, but let me throw out a question for you all to discuss:
Who is a better person; A Christian who leads an exemplary life because he fears hell and wants to go to heaven or an atheist who leads the same exemplary life but does not believe in an afterlife?
Ear- this is one of my favorite anthems we sing. The alto part is particularly good. I think we may even break into 1st and 2nd alto. Anywho, I think it's a Jane Marshall. Our choir director studied under her at SMU. I think, I could be wrong.earendel wrote:I have studiously tried to avoid this thread, but I must comment on this. I don't think that a true Christian leads his or her life out of fear of hell or wanting to go to heaven. A Christian leads "an exemplary life" because of the teachings of Scripture and the example of Jesus. As an anonymous poet wrote in a poem that has been wonderfully set to music:Bob Juch wrote:As I said, I'm not going to participate in a discussion here, but let me throw out a question for you all to discuss:
Who is a better person; A Christian who leads an exemplary life because he fears hell and wants to go to heaven or an atheist who leads the same exemplary life but does not believe in an afterlife?
My God, I love Thee;
not because I hope for heav’n thereby,
Nor yet because who love Thee not
Must die eternally.
Thou, O my Jesus, Thou didst me
Upon the cross embrace;
For me didst bear the nails, the nails and spear,
And manifold disgrace.
Why, then why, O blessed Jesus Christ,
Should I not love Thee well?
Not for the hope of winning heav’n,
Or of escaping hell;
Not with the hope of gaining aught,
Not seeking a reward;
But as Thyself hast loved me,
O ever-loving Lord!
E’en so I love Thee, and will love,
And in Thy praise will sing;
Solely because Thou art my God,
And my Eternal King.
In other words, both the atheist and Christian lead the "exemplary life" without regard for the afterlife.
No, you are correct, it's by Jane Marshall. Our choir sings this once a year and I just love it.Tocqueville3 wrote:Ear- this is one of my favorite anthems we sing. The alto part is particularly good. I think we may even break into 1st and 2nd alto. Anywho, I think it's a Jane Marshall. Our choir director studied under her at SMU. I think, I could be wrong.earendel wrote:I have studiously tried to avoid this thread, but I must comment on this. I don't think that a true Christian leads his or her life out of fear of hell or wanting to go to heaven. A Christian leads "an exemplary life" because of the teachings of Scripture and the example of Jesus. As an anonymous poet wrote in a poem that has been wonderfully set to music:Bob Juch wrote:As I said, I'm not going to participate in a discussion here, but let me throw out a question for you all to discuss:
Who is a better person; A Christian who leads an exemplary life because he fears hell and wants to go to heaven or an atheist who leads the same exemplary life but does not believe in an afterlife?
My God, I love Thee;
not because I hope for heav’n thereby,
Nor yet because who love Thee not
Must die eternally.
Thou, O my Jesus, Thou didst me
Upon the cross embrace;
For me didst bear the nails, the nails and spear,
And manifold disgrace.
Why, then why, O blessed Jesus Christ,
Should I not love Thee well?
Not for the hope of winning heav’n,
Or of escaping hell;
Not with the hope of gaining aught,
Not seeking a reward;
But as Thyself hast loved me,
O ever-loving Lord!
E’en so I love Thee, and will love,
And in Thy praise will sing;
Solely because Thou art my God,
And my Eternal King.
In other words, both the atheist and Christian lead the "exemplary life" without regard for the afterlife.
earendel wrote:No, you are correct, it's by Jane Marshall. Our choir sings this once a year and I just love it.Tocqueville3 wrote:Ear- this is one of my favorite anthems we sing. The alto part is particularly good. I think we may even break into 1st and 2nd alto. Anywho, I think it's a Jane Marshall. Our choir director studied under her at SMU. I think, I could be wrong.earendel wrote: I have studiously tried to avoid this thread, but I must comment on this. I don't think that a true Christian leads his or her life out of fear of hell or wanting to go to heaven. A Christian leads "an exemplary life" because of the teachings of Scripture and the example of Jesus. As an anonymous poet wrote in a poem that has been wonderfully set to music:
My God, I love Thee;
not because I hope for heav’n thereby,
Nor yet because who love Thee not
Must die eternally.
Thou, O my Jesus, Thou didst me
Upon the cross embrace;
For me didst bear the nails, the nails and spear,
And manifold disgrace.
Why, then why, O blessed Jesus Christ,
Should I not love Thee well?
Not for the hope of winning heav’n,
Or of escaping hell;
Not with the hope of gaining aught,
Not seeking a reward;
But as Thyself hast loved me,
O ever-loving Lord!
E’en so I love Thee, and will love,
And in Thy praise will sing;
Solely because Thou art my God,
And my Eternal King.
In other words, both the atheist and Christian lead the "exemplary life" without regard for the afterlife.
How does He decide who to allow?Tocqueville3 wrote: Our works are not what allow us into the kingdom of Heaven. We are allowed to spend eternity with him based soley upon God's grace and mercy. We are all wretched sinners who deserve a life apart from Him and His Kingdom. Thankfully, God shows us mercy and grace and allows some to come into His kingdom for eternity.
God "allows" people to experience the result of their choices. Those who choose to spurn or ignore God end up where they have chosen to go. Those who choose God go where God has prepared a place. (It's a lot more complicated than that, but I don't think you want a theological treatise.)Thousandaire wrote:How does He decide who to allow?Tocqueville3 wrote: Our works are not what allow us into the kingdom of Heaven. We are allowed to spend eternity with him based soley upon God's grace and mercy. We are all wretched sinners who deserve a life apart from Him and His Kingdom. Thankfully, God shows us mercy and grace and allows some to come into His kingdom for eternity.
God knows who is going to choose him long before they are even born.earendel wrote:God "allows" people to experience the result of their choices. Those who choose to spurn or ignore God end up where they have chosen to go. Those who choose God go where God has prepared a place. (It's a lot more complicated than that, but I don't think you want a theological treatise.)Thousandaire wrote:How does He decide who to allow?Tocqueville3 wrote: Our works are not what allow us into the kingdom of Heaven. We are allowed to spend eternity with him based soley upon God's grace and mercy. We are all wretched sinners who deserve a life apart from Him and His Kingdom. Thankfully, God shows us mercy and grace and allows some to come into His kingdom for eternity.
Yeahbut, Tocque said it is not our works that get us into heaven. I must be missing something. A theological treatise would be fine. I'm not trying to be snarky, honest. I find religion fascinating.earendel wrote:God "allows" people to experience the result of their choices. Those who choose to spurn or ignore God end up where they have chosen to go. Those who choose God go where God has prepared a place. (It's a lot more complicated than that, but I don't think you want a theological treatise.)Thousandaire wrote:How does He decide who to allow?Tocqueville3 wrote: Our works are not what allow us into the kingdom of Heaven. We are allowed to spend eternity with him based soley upon God's grace and mercy. We are all wretched sinners who deserve a life apart from Him and His Kingdom. Thankfully, God shows us mercy and grace and allows some to come into His kingdom for eternity.
Volumes have been written about justification, sanctification, predestination, Calvinism, Armenianism(?) and such. I don't know if the bored is up for such a discussion. Besides, I have to pick up my little stinkers at school in 30 minutes and Olivia is fighting her nap!Thousandaire wrote:Yeahbut, Tocque said it is not our works that get us into heaven. I must be missing something. A theological treatise would be fine. I'm not trying to be snarky, honest. I find religion fascinating.earendel wrote:God "allows" people to experience the result of their choices. Those who choose to spurn or ignore God end up where they have chosen to go. Those who choose God go where God has prepared a place. (It's a lot more complicated than that, but I don't think you want a theological treatise.)Thousandaire wrote: How does He decide who to allow?
Not up for a discussion?!?!?!?!?Tocqueville3 wrote:Volumes have been written about justification, sanctification, predestination, Calvinism, Armenianism(?) and such. I don't know if the bored is up for such a discussion. Besides, I have to pick up my little stinkers at school in 30 minutes and Olivia is fighting her nap!
I'm glad you want to know, though.
But, because this is the Bored and not Chat, you didn't miss anything!Jeemie wrote:You go out for more popcorn, and you miss EVERYTHING.
Yeah- but that means I have to read a lot of those posts with the 5,000 nested quotes!MarleysGh0st wrote:But, because this is the Bored and not Chat, you didn't miss anything!Jeemie wrote:You go out for more popcorn, and you miss EVERYTHING.
Just skim read, decide what they said and argue with them about what you decided they said.Jeemie wrote:Yeah- but that means I have to read a lot of those posts with the 5,000 nested quotes!MarleysGh0st wrote:But, because this is the Bored and not Chat, you didn't miss anything!Jeemie wrote:You go out for more popcorn, and you miss EVERYTHING.
Since it's all planned out in advance, what's the point?Tocqueville3 wrote:God knows who is going to choose him long before they are even born.
My grandmother used to say "You can't ask Jesus to come live in your heart unless he knocks on your door first."
To me, a choice is an act; it is something we do, like our works.tlynn78 wrote:"our works" and "our choices" are not the same things.
t.
