Surprise! Voter ID laws reduce turnout

[macrae1234]

I have several photo ID's but they won't let me vote and nobody came around to enumerate me prior to the election. What do I do?

[BackInTex]

I have several photo ID's but they won't let me vote and nobody came around to enumerate me prior to the election. What do I do?

Not nothing.

[silverscreenselect]

What did this guy, a registered voter his entire adult life who has never left his hometown of Austin, do to lose his right to vote? --Bob

Nothing. He did nothing. He should have done something, but instead, like a lot of the Democrat base, he did nothing.

Funny how it's the Democratic base that disproportionately was forced to "do something" that was often quite time consuming or costly or both to prove their entitlement to vote while the Republican base essentially got a free pass because of the types of pre-existing forms of identification that were accepted. That's how the term "grandfather clause" came into being... through laws that imposed substantial restrictions on voting but waived those restrictions if people had been eligible to vote before some arbitrary date or were descended from eligible voters. Thus poor white voters were grandfathered in while black voters had to meet the various poll tax and literacy clause requirements.

The more things change, the more they remain the same.

[silverscreenselect]

I have several photo ID's but they won't let me vote and nobody came around to enumerate me prior to the election. What do I do?

Not nothing.

This guy did a lot more than nothing. He just didn't seem to do enough to satisfy Texas law. Of course, if he'd been in the military or had a handgun (two definitely Republican leading constituencies), he could have done simply nothing.

To get an EIC, Kennie needs to be able to show the Texas department of public safety (DPS) other forms of documentation that satisfy them as to his identity. He presented them with his old personal ID card – issued by the DPS itself and with his photo on it – but because it is more than 60 days expired (it ran out in 2000) they didn’t accept it. Next he showed them an electricity bill, and after that a cable TV bill, but on each occasion they said it didn’t cut muster and turned him away.

Each trip to the DPS office involved taking three buses, a journey that can stretch to a couple of hours. Then he had to stand in line, waiting for up to a further three hours to be seen, before finally making another two-hour schlep home.

In one of his trips to the DPS last year they told him he needed to get hold of a copy of his birth certificate as the only remaining way he could meet the requirements and get his EIC. That meant going on yet another three-bus trek to the official records office in a different part of town.

The cost of acquiring a birth certificate in Texas is $23, which may not sound much but it is to Kennie. He is poor, like many of the up to 600,000 Texans caught in the current voter ID trap.

[Bob78164]

What did this guy, a registered voter his entire adult life who has never left his hometown of Austin, do to lose his right to vote? --Bob

Nothing. He did nothing. He should have done something, but instead, like a lot of the Democrat base, he did nothing.

Funny how it's the Democratic base that disproportionately was forced to "do something" that was often quite time consuming or costly or both to prove their entitlement to vote while the Republican base essentially got a free pass because of the types of pre-existing forms of identification that were accepted. That's how the term "grandfather clause" came into being... through laws that imposed substantial restrictions on voting but waived those restrictions if people had been eligible to vote before some arbitrary date or were descended from eligible voters. Thus poor white voters were grandfathered in while black voters had to meet the various poll tax and literacy clause requirements.

The more things change, the more they remain the same.

It is a tribute to the majesty of the law's equality that rich and poor alike are forbidden from sleeping under overpasses and scrounging through garbage pails for food. --Bob

[macrae1234]

I have several photo ID's but they won't let me vote and nobody came around to enumerate me prior to the election. What do I do?

I'm sorry did I forget to mention one of my photo id's is an I-551

Spoiler

aka permanent resident green card

[TheCalvinator24]

The story about the Austin guy illustrates the problem.

First, the article conveniently ignores the fact that a birth certificate only costs $3 if it is being obtained to get a Voter ID card.

Second, if activists really care about his ability to vote, they would be helping him do what it takes. Instead, they let him languish because he is more valuable to them as a prop than as a voter.

[Bob78164]

The story about the Austin guy illustrates the problem.

If by "the problem" you mean that an eligible voter in a politically disfavored demographic has been voting, then I'm forced to agree with you. And I'm also forced to agree that, for this election at least, the problem has been solved. --Bob

[silverscreenselect]

Second, if activists really care about his ability to vote, they would be helping him do what it takes.

You mean like these people:

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government ... Disgusting

Or how about these people in my own state of Georgia (the entry about State Sen. Millar, about halfway down the page):

http://politics.blog.ajc.com/2014/09/09 ... baby-less/

And here's how Republicans help register voters:

http://www.8newsnow.com/story/2421595/i ... istrations

[jarnon]

Second, if activists really care about his ability to vote, they would be helping him do what it takes. Instead, they let him languish because he is more valuable to them as a prop than as a voter.

Pennsylvania's experience was different. The judge suspended the voter ID law just a month before the 2012 election. (It was eventually found to be discriminatory and struck down.) Until then, Democratic activists who opposed the law were also helping voters to get photo IDs. And the Republican administration was relaxing the rules for obtaining an ID.

Both sides were acting out of political self-interest. Democrats wanted to be sure their supporters could vote, since as the law was written, almost all the voters who didn't already have acceptable IDs were Democrats. And the administration wanted to convince the judge to approve the voter ID law. But it shows that an unbiased voter ID law, designed to prevent fraud and not to give one side an advantage, could be made to work.

[themanintheseersuckersuit]

The group, Virginia Voters Alliance, says that it compared how voters in Frederick County filled out jury duty statements compared with their voting records. The group’s investigation found that thousands of people in Frederick County who stated that they are not U.S. citizens on jury duty forms went on to cast votes in elections. Either they failed to tell the truth when they were summoned for jury duty, or they cast illegal votes. Both are crimes. The same group previously found that about 40,000 people are registered to vote in both Virginia and Maryland.

http://watchdog.org/179354/maryland-illegal-voters/

[silverscreenselect]

The group, Virginia Voters Alliance, says that it compared how voters in Frederick County filled out jury duty statements compared with their voting records. The group’s investigation found that thousands of people in Frederick County who stated that they are not U.S. citizens on jury duty forms went on to cast votes in elections. Either they failed to tell the truth when they were summoned for jury duty, or they cast illegal votes. Both are crimes. The same group previously found that about 40,000 people are registered to vote in both Virginia and Maryland.

http://watchdog.org/179354/maryland-illegal-voters/

From the article:

The lawsuit, filed Friday in U.S. District Court in Baltimore, asserts that individuals who opted out of jury duty because they were not legal U.S. residents have cast ballots in at least three Maryland elections.

The fact that they could get out of jury duty by checking off the form couldn't possibly have influenced what they did, now could it?

[jarnon]

The group, Virginia Voters Alliance, says that it compared how voters in Frederick County filled out jury duty statements compared with their voting records. The group’s investigation found that thousands of people in Frederick County who stated that they are not U.S. citizens on jury duty forms went on to cast votes in elections. Either they failed to tell the truth when they were summoned for jury duty, or they cast illegal votes. Both are crimes.

Yes, that's a crime. But I followed the links in the article, and the court document says "some individuals" lied about their citizenship, not "thousands of people." The exact number is on Exhibits A through J of the court document, which I couldn't find online.

The same group previously found that about 40,000 people are registered to vote in both Virginia and Maryland.

That happens all the time when voters change residences. It's not a crime unless they actually vote in both states.

Update: I checked the group's website, and it says they reported 164 voters to the government, who apparently voted in both states during the 2012 Presidential election.

[macrae1234]

The fact that they could get out of jury duty by checking off the form couldn't possibly have influenced what they did, now could it

In AZ checking not a citizen is not sufficient I had to scan and send or I could have gone to the court house down the street a copy of my I-551

PS I do not Vote

[flockofseagulls104]

Second, if activists really care about his ability to vote, they would be helping him do what it takes.

You mean like these people:

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government ... Disgusting

Or how about these people in my own state of Georgia (the entry about State Sen. Millar, about halfway down the page):

http://politics.blog.ajc.com/2014/09/09 ... baby-less/

And here's how Republicans help register voters:

http://www.8newsnow.com/story/2421595/i ... istrations

Well, it seems to me that one of your previous arguments was that voter fraud is not a significant enough problem that it requires a change. Apparently we now agree that it happens all the time. Requiring that a voter prove that they are who they say there are won't stop all this crap that's going on, but at least it's something that will make it more difficult to cheat.

Yesterday I heard several people on the radio report that they received multiple ballots mailed to them here in Oregon. It could be more propaganda or it could be true, I don't know. What I do know is that if we wanted to, we could make a voting system that is a lot more reliable. Like everything else that the government is involved in, the voting system is full of holes that the private sector would be prosecuted and thrown in jail for.

I like the analogy put forth that I can go to NY and withdraw $20 from my account from an ATM there, and when I get back to Oregon, my account would know I took $20 out somewhere else. We could, if we wanted, do the same thing with voting with the technology we have now. The question is, do we want to and can we afford to? And if we decide it's worth it, can we overcome the wrath of those who have already fixed it in their favor and will fight dirty to keep it the way it is. (Just like they are doing now).

[silverscreenselect]

Well, it seems to me that one of your previous arguments was that voter fraud is not a significant enough problem that it requires a change. Apparently we now agree that it happens all the time.

No, Flock, I didn't say that. What I did say is that Republicans complaining about alleged voter fraud happens all the time.

[Bob78164]

Well, it seems to me that one of your previous arguments was that voter fraud is not a significant enough problem that it requires a change. Apparently we now agree that it happens all the time. Requiring that a voter prove that they are who they say there are won't stop all this crap that's going on, but at least it's something that will make it more difficult to cheat.

No. The argument is that in-person voter fraud is not a significant enough problem to require a change. Requiring IDs (particularly IDs from a sharply limited set) won't make it more difficult to cheat because it doesn't prevent any of these other methods. But it definitely makes it more difficult for hundreds of thousands of legitimate registered voters to vote. --Bob

[flockofseagulls104]

Well, it seems to me that one of your previous arguments was that voter fraud is not a significant enough problem that it requires a change. Apparently we now agree that it happens all the time.

No, Flock, I didn't say that. What I did say is that Republicans complaining about alleged voter fraud happens all the time.

I guess you just included an instance where a Republican did something wrong because that's who you are. I am saying it happens all the time on both sides, and it's getting more and more blatant every day.

[Bob Juch]

The group, Virginia Voters Alliance, says that it compared how voters in Frederick County filled out jury duty statements compared with their voting records. The group’s investigation found that thousands of people in Frederick County who stated that they are not U.S. citizens on jury duty forms went on to cast votes in elections. Either they failed to tell the truth when they were summoned for jury duty, or they cast illegal votes. Both are crimes. The same group previously found that about 40,000 people are registered to vote in both Virginia and Maryland.

http://watchdog.org/179354/maryland-illegal-voters/

How do they do the matching? I've heard of some places that match just first and last names.

[silverscreenselect]

Well, it seems to me that one of your previous arguments was that voter fraud is not a significant enough problem that it requires a change. Apparently we now agree that it happens all the time.

No, Flock, I didn't say that. What I did say is that Republicans complaining about alleged voter fraud happens all the time.

I guess you just included an instance where a Republican did something wrong because that's who you are. I am saying it happens all the time on both sides, and it's getting more and more blatant every day.

The problem with your reasoning is that every time you point out some documented case of voter fraud, none of the voter ID laws would affect that type of fraud. If these Republican legislatures were serious about combatting voter fraud, they'd be working on different types of legislation instead of figuring out ways to suppress Democratic leaning voters that do not affect the types of documented fraud that are out there.

[Bob Juch]

No, Flock, I didn't say that. What I did say is that Republicans complaining about alleged voter fraud happens all the time.

I guess you just included an instance where a Republican did something wrong because that's who you are. I am saying it happens all the time on both sides, and it's getting more and more blatant every day.

The problem with your reasoning is that every time you point out some documented case of voter fraud, none of the voter ID laws would affect that type of fraud. If these Republican legislatures were serious about combatting voter fraud, they'd be working on different types of legislation instead of figuring out ways to suppress Democratic leaning voters that do not affect the types of documented fraud that are out there.

In addition to voter ID there's another problem:

Some states have purged their voter roles of supposed duplicate people by using just the first and last names of the voters. Due to a much smaller distribution of minority surnames this affects them disproportionately.

[themanintheseersuckersuit]

http://thepunditpress.com/2014/11/02/vo ... aw-blamed/

[Bob Juch]

NC Voting Machines Flipping Votes for Democrats to Republicans!

http://aattp.org/stealing-election-2014 ... publicans/

[flockofseagulls104]

NC Voting Machines Flipping Votes for Democrats to Republicans!

http://aattp.org/stealing-election-2014 ... publicans/

Do NOT post anything from the aattp here again. They are a Hate Group, and it offends me immensely. Thank you.

[Bob Juch]

NC Voting Machines Flipping Votes for Democrats to Republicans!

http://aattp.org/stealing-election-2014 ... publicans/

Do NOT post anything from the aattp here again. They are a Hate Group, and it offends me immensely. Thank you.

We just hate the haters.