At the poker game last night, an older guy (65-70) asked everyone at the table if we were ging to vote tomorrow. He said, " I really like Oboma. He reminds me of John Kennedy. I was real excited when I turned 18 and was able to vote for him." Then one real young guy at the table said, "I thought 18 year olds didn't get the right to vote till 1972?" He other guy never said another word.
Ray
Open mouth insert foot (size 14)
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rayxtwo
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mrkelley23
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themanintheseersuckersuit
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If my math is right anybody that voted for Kennedy is 70 now.
Suitguy is not bitter.
feels he represents the many educated and rational onlookers who believe that the hysterical denouncement of lay scepticism is both unwarranted and counter-productive
The problem, then, is that such calls do not address an opposition audience so much as they signal virtue. They talk past those who need convincing. They ignore actual facts and counterargument. And they are irreparably smug.
feels he represents the many educated and rational onlookers who believe that the hysterical denouncement of lay scepticism is both unwarranted and counter-productive
The problem, then, is that such calls do not address an opposition audience so much as they signal virtue. They talk past those who need convincing. They ignore actual facts and counterargument. And they are irreparably smug.
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andrewjackson
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wintergreen48
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Well, there could be two somewhat innocent explanations.
First, some states did allow 18 year olds to vote in 1960-- not many, but there were a few. So this geezer could-- theoretically-- have been a resident of one of those states. Later in the 1960's, with the Vietnam War, there was a lot of 'if they're old enough to fight/die, they're old enough to vote' and other arguments that people should not be sent to die if they can't vote on that, which led to Congress passing a law granting 18 year olds the right to vote in all elections. Which Oregon challenged, and the Supreme Court came up with an insane ruling, which was actually Justice Black by himself, which held that Congress could set an 18 year old right to vote (or any other age not in excess of 21-- the Constitution sets a maximum minimum age of 21, but says nothing about allowing younger people to vote), but it could not set any minimum age to vote in state or local elections, which made things very difficult (states which preferred the 21 year age limit would have had to have separate polling places for people who were 18-21, so that those people could vote in Federal elections but not in the local elections). The Supreme Court was a classic 'let's not really decide anything' decision: the four more liberal members of the Court decided that Congress could do anything it wanted and to hell with the states, and ruled that the federal law governed in all elections, while the four more conservative members of the Court decided that Congress had no power at all over any elections and that the Constitution's 'default' age of 21 was binding, so that the 'official decision' of the Court was Hugo Black, who ruled that Congress had no power over state elections, but did have power over federal elections. Justice Black's decision was the 'majority' decision-- even though NO ONE except Black agreed with it-- because he had a 5-4 majority (thanks to the liberals) on the portion of his decision that said that Congress could set the age limit on federal elections, and he had a 5-4 majority (thanks to the conservatives) on the portion of his decision that said that Congress couldn't do anything at all on the state elections. The chaos that would have ensued resulted in a Constitutional Amendment which was ratified faster than any other Amendment in history.
The other 'innocent' possibility is that the old geezer really, sincerely remembers having voted for Kennedy when he was 18: some people really can convince themselves of 'facts' that are simply not true, and believe that they did (or did not do) something regardless of objective reality. Kennedy's appeal, in retrospect, is so mythical that I suspect that a lot of people who may have actually despised him in life have since convinced themselves that they were among his strongest supporters.
Then again, the old geezer probably was just blowing smoke out of his ass.
First, some states did allow 18 year olds to vote in 1960-- not many, but there were a few. So this geezer could-- theoretically-- have been a resident of one of those states. Later in the 1960's, with the Vietnam War, there was a lot of 'if they're old enough to fight/die, they're old enough to vote' and other arguments that people should not be sent to die if they can't vote on that, which led to Congress passing a law granting 18 year olds the right to vote in all elections. Which Oregon challenged, and the Supreme Court came up with an insane ruling, which was actually Justice Black by himself, which held that Congress could set an 18 year old right to vote (or any other age not in excess of 21-- the Constitution sets a maximum minimum age of 21, but says nothing about allowing younger people to vote), but it could not set any minimum age to vote in state or local elections, which made things very difficult (states which preferred the 21 year age limit would have had to have separate polling places for people who were 18-21, so that those people could vote in Federal elections but not in the local elections). The Supreme Court was a classic 'let's not really decide anything' decision: the four more liberal members of the Court decided that Congress could do anything it wanted and to hell with the states, and ruled that the federal law governed in all elections, while the four more conservative members of the Court decided that Congress had no power at all over any elections and that the Constitution's 'default' age of 21 was binding, so that the 'official decision' of the Court was Hugo Black, who ruled that Congress had no power over state elections, but did have power over federal elections. Justice Black's decision was the 'majority' decision-- even though NO ONE except Black agreed with it-- because he had a 5-4 majority (thanks to the liberals) on the portion of his decision that said that Congress could set the age limit on federal elections, and he had a 5-4 majority (thanks to the conservatives) on the portion of his decision that said that Congress couldn't do anything at all on the state elections. The chaos that would have ensued resulted in a Constitutional Amendment which was ratified faster than any other Amendment in history.
The other 'innocent' possibility is that the old geezer really, sincerely remembers having voted for Kennedy when he was 18: some people really can convince themselves of 'facts' that are simply not true, and believe that they did (or did not do) something regardless of objective reality. Kennedy's appeal, in retrospect, is so mythical that I suspect that a lot of people who may have actually despised him in life have since convinced themselves that they were among his strongest supporters.
Then again, the old geezer probably was just blowing smoke out of his ass.
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andrewjackson
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Hmmm. I didn't know this but Georgia gave 18 year-olds the right to vote in 1943. Kentucky did it in 1956. So in either of those states an 18 year old could have voted for Kennedy in 1960.
I think those are the only two states that had the 18 year old age limit. Alaska was 19 while Hawaii and New Hampshire were 20 before 1972.
I think those are the only two states that had the 18 year old age limit. Alaska was 19 while Hawaii and New Hampshire were 20 before 1972.
No matter where you go, there you are.