Values voters and Roy Moore

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Pastor Fireball
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Re: Values voters and Roy Moore

#26 Post by Pastor Fireball » Thu Nov 09, 2017 5:01 pm

Bob78164 wrote:Perhaps this extremely well sourced and well researched story from the Washington Post will persuade Alabama voters (particularly "values" voters) to take a closer look at the December special election for the United States Senate. --Bob
Didn't that state vote for a pussy grabber last November?

Enough said.
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Re: Values voters and Roy Moore

#27 Post by BackInTex » Thu Nov 09, 2017 5:20 pm

ghostjmf wrote:BiT: Can't do quotes on this tablet.

So where did I say "I don't see anything wrong with sexual assault (or any other kind of assault, for that matter)"?

I asked you for evidence Bill Clinton had assaulted a minor-aged child, which is what Roy Moore is accused of.

I'm not talking consensual relations, however tacky, between adults.
I never said anything about Clinton and sexual assault of children. He was accused of sexual assault by three women, one whom he paid a settlement to. I'm just calling Bobbie out on his selective outrage , aka hypocrisy. But because you, who also knew about the accusations made about Clinton chose to ignore them with respect to this conversation, I can assume you don't see anything wrong with it.
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Re: Values voters and Roy Moore

#28 Post by BackInTex » Thu Nov 09, 2017 5:23 pm

Pastor Fireball wrote:
Didn't that state vote for a pussy grabber last November?
They voted for Harvey?
In the end, they will all pretty much taste the same.

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Re: Values voters and Roy Moore

#29 Post by ghostjmf » Thu Nov 09, 2017 5:30 pm

BiT: Never read anything about Bill C. assaulting anyone. Read/heard a lot in the day about various women wailing "he needs to acknowledge he looooooved me!".

Sigh. More reading.

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Re: Values voters and Roy Moore

#30 Post by ghostjmf » Thu Nov 09, 2017 5:38 pm

Wikishmoozia says 3 women told their friends & relatives they were having a good time with Clinton at the time, & claimed it was unsolicited assault years later.
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Re: Values voters and Roy Moore

#31 Post by ghostjmf » Thu Nov 09, 2017 5:40 pm

At any rate, its not too cool to claim I condone proved assault because I don't agree with your politics.

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Re: Values voters and Roy Moore

#32 Post by BackInTex » Thu Nov 09, 2017 9:57 pm

ghostjmf wrote:At any rate, its not too cool to claim I condone proved assault because I don't agree with your politics.
I did no thing. I did imply you are O.K. with sexual assault when you agree with the accused's politics.
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Re: Values voters and Roy Moore

#33 Post by ghostjmf » Fri Nov 10, 2017 2:35 am

BiT:

You said I knew about accusations I did *not* know about. This was *your* assumption. Because you claimed I knew about them, you then said I was OK with the accusations.

The accusations, even if true, which reports say the accusers said weren't true at the time (supposedly they were in consensual relationships), were not involving children.

Nevertheless, you equate adults making accusations about their relations with Clinton with women making accusations about assault on them by Moore when they were children, to claim I "am OK with assault" by Democrats.

Like I said, not cool. Or fair, if you don't get it.

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Re: Values voters and Roy Moore

#34 Post by Estonut » Fri Nov 10, 2017 4:04 am

ghostjmf wrote:The accusations, even if true, which reports say the accusers said weren't true at the time (supposedly they were in consensual relationships), ...
Just wondering where you read this. I've never read any such thing from his many accusers.
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Re: Values voters and Roy Moore

#35 Post by ghostjmf » Fri Nov 10, 2017 6:48 am

Estonut: If you're "wondering" where I got info, try reading my previous comments on the subject in this thread.

Just to refresh you, I got the info from Wikipedia's coverage of the cases. Not an infallible source I agree, but unless you go rewrite it it will still say what I read.

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Re: Values voters and Roy Moore

#36 Post by ghostjmf » Fri Nov 10, 2017 8:19 am

Of Broaddrick, Wiley & Jones, Broaddrick is the only one who didn't tell people at the time that she was having a consensual affair, according to Wikipedia. However, on 2 occasions, under oath, she denied she had been raped, which she later claimed.

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Re: Values voters and Roy Moore

#37 Post by silverscreenselect » Fri Nov 10, 2017 8:19 am

For the record, the one woman who has made the most damaging accusations said that as a 14-year-old, Moore took her to an empty house after dark, stripped down to his underwear and engaged in what might be described as heavy petting. She has voted Republican in the last three presidential elections, including for Trump.

The other three cases involve asking women out who were between 16 and 18 and providing liquor for one of them as an 18 year old. The age of consent in Alabama was and is 16, so the dates would have been legal, if in poor taste.

If the Post and some vindictive women were just trying to do a smear job on Moore, why not accuse him of something worse? After all, in either case, it's a he said, she said situation and nobody is going to get prosecuted for something that happened 30 years ago.
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Re: Values voters and Roy Moore

#38 Post by BackInTex » Fri Nov 10, 2017 8:30 am

Estonut wrote:
ghostjmf wrote:The accusations, even if true, which reports say the accusers said weren't true at the time (supposedly they were in consensual relationships), ...
Just wondering where you read this. I've never read any such thing from his many accusers.
It had to be written on the inside wall of a colon, because that is the only explanation for someone, over 40, not knowing about the accusations.
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Re: Values voters and Roy Moore

#39 Post by ghostjmf » Fri Nov 10, 2017 9:06 am

BiT:

I hadn't heard or read of this stuff until you brought it up.

I'd been hearing & reading about Bill Clinton's consensual affairs for years.

I'd heard/read Trump seated some people Clinton had been said to have had affairs with prominently at Trump's Republican nomination acceptance speech. That's the extent to which I'd heard/read of any of this.

I'll wait 'til my next colonoscopy, 7 or so years from now, to see if anything's written there.
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Re: Values voters and Roy Moore

#40 Post by silverscreenselect » Fri Nov 10, 2017 9:08 am

BackInTex wrote:It had to be written on the inside wall of a colon,
That may be where Roy Moore's copy of the Ten Commandments is, so that his supporters will have an easy time finding them.
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Re: Values voters and Roy Moore

#41 Post by Bob78164 » Fri Nov 10, 2017 11:56 am

ghostjmf wrote:BiT:

I hadn't heard or read of this stuff until you brought it up.

I'd been hearing & reading about Bill Clinton's consensual affairs for years.

I'd heard/read Trump seated some people Clinton had been said to have had affairs with prominently at Trump's Republican nomination acceptance speech. That's the extent to which I'd heard/read of any of this.

I'll wait 'til my next colonoscopy, 7 or so years from now, to see if anything's written there.
Unless BiT is saying that he's okay with Moore's conduct because he thinks Bill Clinton got away with stuff 16 years ago (and I don't think he's really saying that), I really don't think this discussion is relevant. Moore is running for the Senate right now. I believe the evidence in the Washington Post article leaves essentially no room for doubt that his denials are complete BS. The people of Alabama will decide next month whether that's who they want representing them in the Senate. I hope they choose a different direction. --Bob
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Re: Values voters and Roy Moore

#42 Post by Bob78164 » Fri Nov 10, 2017 4:07 pm

BackInTex wrote:
Bob78164 wrote: it happened, and that should be all that matters. Bob
They've already had a trial?! That was quick.
Mitt Romney wrote:Innocent until proven guilty is for criminal convictions, not elections. I believe Leigh Corfman. Her account is too serious to ignore. Moore is unfit for office and should step aside.
I often don't agree with Romney, but he got this one right. --Bob
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Re: Values voters and Roy Moore

#43 Post by BackInTex » Fri Nov 10, 2017 5:29 pm

Bob78164 wrote:
BackInTex wrote:
Bob78164 wrote: it happened, and that should be all that matters. Bob
They've already had a trial?! That was quick.
Mitt Romney wrote:Innocent until proven guilty is for criminal convictions, not elections. I believe Leigh Corfman. Her account is too serious to ignore. Moore is unfit for office and should step aside.
I often don't agree with Romney, but he got this one right. --Bob
Lol. You and your "high" standards will allow a child molestor to go free but when a conservative is all of a sudden accused 40 years after the fact, too late to change a ballot for an election he is 9 points in the lead, and all of a sudden someone's made up story is enough.
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Re: Values voters and Roy Moore

#44 Post by Bob78164 » Fri Nov 10, 2017 5:38 pm

BackInTex wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:
BackInTex wrote:
They've already had a trial?! That was quick.
Mitt Romney wrote:Innocent until proven guilty is for criminal convictions, not elections. I believe Leigh Corfman. Her account is too serious to ignore. Moore is unfit for office and should step aside.
I often don't agree with Romney, but he got this one right. --Bob
Lol. You and your "high" standards will allow a child molestor to go free but when a conservative is all of a sudden accused 40 years after the fact, too late to change a ballot for an election he is 9 points in the lead, and all of a sudden someone's made up story is enough.
Sticking your fingers in your ears and yelling la la la la la won't make it false, and if you're referring to Bill Clinton (who isn't on any ballot that I'm aware of), he was never so much as accused of child molestation.

Thirty witnesses. Four accusers on the record, none of whom came forward themselves and none of whom knew each other.

In any event, maybe I was wrong. Maybe you really do think that Moore's conduct is okay because you think Clinton got away with it. I can only hope that the voters of Alabama disagree. And if they don't, perhaps the Senate will conclude he's not fit to join their ranks. --Bob
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Re: Values voters and Roy Moore

#45 Post by Bob78164 » Fri Nov 10, 2017 5:49 pm

BackInTex wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:
BackInTex wrote:
They've already had a trial?! That was quick.
Mitt Romney wrote:Innocent until proven guilty is for criminal convictions, not elections. I believe Leigh Corfman. Her account is too serious to ignore. Moore is unfit for office and should step aside.
I often don't agree with Romney, but he got this one right. --Bob
Lol. You and your "high" standards will allow a child molestor to go free but when a conservative is all of a sudden accused 40 years after the fact, too late to change a ballot for an election he is 9 points in the lead, and all of a sudden someone's made up story is enough.
Oh, now I remember. You don't think that accused criminal defendants should get lawyers even when they ask for one, presumably because if they're accused, you think they're probably guilty, and if they're not, that's just their tough luck.

To be clear, I don't think Roy Moore should have his physical freedom taken away from him -- that would require a criminal trial that, because of the statute of limitations, is never going to happen. But there's plenty of proof to show that he's not worthy of the privilege of sitting in the United States Senate. --Bob
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." Thomas Jefferson

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Re: Values voters and Roy Moore

#46 Post by Bob78164 » Fri Nov 10, 2017 6:25 pm

Let's not forget one other thing about Moore, by the way. On two separate occasions, he sought and accepted a job as a judge. That position comes with a solemn commitment to abide by the rule of law, even when you personally disagree with that law. On two separate occasions, Moore violated that solemn commitment. On two separate occasions, Moore absolutely refused to abide by a controlling and valid court order. If Moore truly believed that he could not abide those rulings, the principled thing to do would have been to step down. But on both occasions, Moore had to be removed from the bench.

And it really troubles me that at least among Alabama Republicans, that behavior was a feature, not a bug. --Bob
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Re: Values voters and Roy Moore

#47 Post by flockofseagulls104 » Sat Nov 11, 2017 2:26 am

I repeat:
From my point of view, very few people that run for public office, especially national offices, are very concerned about what's in the long-term best interests of the country. They are concerned with consolidating individual and party power. Who else would willingly put themselves through the process of getting elected? That is all well and good, and it's what we have come to. Just look at some of the people we have put in positions of power who have been exposed for the creeps that they really are. And then think of the possibility of how many others there are that are just as corrupt that have NOT been exposed.
It is shown again and again this is true. These are the people that run for office and are presented to us for election. Their main skills and main objectives are raising money, getting people to vote for them, or to vote against the other guy. They are not superhuman intellects or moral superiors, they just sell that image, just like products that are marketed. (Except for Hillary, of course, who is the smartest woman in the world). Why in the world do we continually give more of our freedoms and control of our lives to these people and the unelected bureaucrats they appoint?
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Re: Values voters and Roy Moore

#48 Post by elwoodblues » Sat Nov 11, 2017 11:20 am

What should disqualify Moore from public office is that he thinks his probably wrong interpretation of his religion should supersede the law.

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Re: Values voters and Roy Moore

#49 Post by Bob78164 » Sun Nov 12, 2017 12:20 am

elwoodblues wrote:What should disqualify Moore from public office is that he thinks his probably wrong interpretation of his religion should supersede the law.
Sadly, I think for many Alabama voters that's a feature, not a bug. --Bob
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Re: Values voters and Roy Moore

#50 Post by flockofseagulls104 » Sun Nov 12, 2017 3:06 pm

What should disqualify Moore from public office is that he thinks his probably wrong interpretation of his religion should supersede the law.
Sadly, for many judges, their political and social justice beliefs have become their religion, and they have made many decisions which have superceded the laws passed by the legislative branches. It is called being an activist judge. Yes, that accusation can be applied to Moore, but to be fair, you need to apply it to many other judges on both sides. The left is not known for being fair, however.
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