And so it begins.....

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BackInTex
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And so it begins.....

#1 Post by BackInTex » Sat Jan 23, 2016 9:44 am

Men can now compete as women in the Olympics

Complete insanity.
the International Olympic Committee wrote:To require surgical anatomical changes as a pre-condition to participation is not necessary to preserve fair competition and may be inconsistent with developing legislation and notions of human rights.
In the end, they will all pretty much taste the same.

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Re: And so it begins.....

#2 Post by flockofseagulls104 » Sun Jan 24, 2016 12:58 am

Alright, why then do we not just stop genderizing sports altogether. No men's and women's 100 meter sprint. Just the 100 meter sprint. Let the best person win. For all sports.

Why do I think they'd never allow that?
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Re: And so it begins.....

#3 Post by SpacemanSpiff » Sun Jan 24, 2016 6:40 am

BackInTex wrote:Men can now compete as women in the Olympics

Complete insanity.
the International Olympic Committee wrote:To require surgical anatomical changes as a pre-condition to participation is not necessary to preserve fair competition and may be inconsistent with developing legislation and notions of human rights.
I thought the East Germans did that for years with their women's teams.
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Re: And so it begins.....

#4 Post by silverscreenselect » Sun Jan 24, 2016 9:38 am

BackInTex wrote:Men can now compete as women in the Olympics

Complete insanity.
the International Olympic Committee wrote:To require surgical anatomical changes as a pre-condition to participation is not necessary to preserve fair competition and may be inconsistent with developing legislation and notions of human rights.
Quote from the article:
This matches up with the NCAA rules and is as good as anything.
So, apparently, the IOC is using the same criteria the NCAA already has. I'm sure there are tons of mediocre male athletes just itching to go through years of public humiliation, psychological torment, and intensive hormone therapy just so they can compete in the Olympics, where, if they have any degree of success, they'll be subject to even more scorn and scrutiny.
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Re: And so it begins.....

#5 Post by BackInTex » Sun Jan 24, 2016 1:05 pm

silverscreenselect wrote:I'm sure there are tons of mediocre male athletes just itching to go through years of public humiliation, psychological torment, and intensive hormone therapy just so they can compete in the Olympics, where, if they have any degree of success, they'll be subject to even more scorn and scrutiny.
Considering the issue starts with a psychological disorder to begin with, your assumption (sans the sarcasm) is valid.
In the end, they will all pretty much taste the same.

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Re: And so it begins.....

#6 Post by SpacemanSpiff » Sun Jan 24, 2016 3:14 pm

We've already had this happen, with the Nazi Olympics squad, no less.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dora_Ratjen
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Re: And so it begins.....

#7 Post by silverscreenselect » Sun Jan 24, 2016 6:04 pm

BackInTex wrote:
silverscreenselect wrote:I'm sure there are tons of mediocre male athletes just itching to go through years of public humiliation, psychological torment, and intensive hormone therapy just so they can compete in the Olympics, where, if they have any degree of success, they'll be subject to even more scorn and scrutiny.
Considering the issue starts with a psychological disorder to begin with, your assumption (sans the sarcasm) is valid.
Again, you're assuming that there will be people who do this as a convenient way to make the Olympics when they otherwise had no chance, sort of like a person with dual citizenship declaring to be a citizen of the country in which he or she stands a better chance of getting to the Games. I can't begin to know what these people go through, but I do know their decisions aren't made lightly.
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Re: And so it begins.....

#8 Post by littlebeast13 » Sun Jan 24, 2016 9:46 pm

silverscreenselect wrote:
BackInTex wrote:
silverscreenselect wrote:I'm sure there are tons of mediocre male athletes just itching to go through years of public humiliation, psychological torment, and intensive hormone therapy just so they can compete in the Olympics, where, if they have any degree of success, they'll be subject to even more scorn and scrutiny.
Considering the issue starts with a psychological disorder to begin with, your assumption (sans the sarcasm) is valid.
Again, you're assuming that there will be people who do this as a convenient way to make the Olympics when they otherwise had no chance, sort of like a person with dual citizenship declaring to be a citizen of the country in which he or she stands a better chance of getting to the Games. I can't begin to know what these people go through, but I do know their decisions aren't made lightly.

That's true... most people seeking attention ho status are much more calculating in their decisions than they're given credit for. The first "female" athlete to try this stunt would gain not only the "notoriety" you've mentioned, but in typical "there's no such thing as bad publicity" fashion, would probably never have to do an honest day's work again in their lives with all of the standing invitations for talk shows, book deals, celebreality competitions, etc. etc. etc.

The second athlete to try this stunt........... not so much. But someone will capitalize on this....

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Re: And so it begins.....

#9 Post by BackInTex » Mon Jan 25, 2016 8:05 am

silverscreenselect wrote:
BackInTex wrote:
silverscreenselect wrote:I'm sure there are tons of mediocre male athletes just itching to go through years of public humiliation, psychological torment, and intensive hormone therapy just so they can compete in the Olympics, where, if they have any degree of success, they'll be subject to even more scorn and scrutiny.
Considering the issue starts with a psychological disorder to begin with, your assumption (sans the sarcasm) is valid.
Again, you're assuming that there will be people who do this as a convenient way to make the Olympics when they otherwise had no chance, sort of like a person with dual citizenship declaring to be a citizen of the country in which he or she stands a better chance of getting to the Games. I can't begin to know what these people go through, but I do know their decisions aren't made lightly.
Actually, I'm not assuming anything. Even if there is a TG athlete (male) who "legitimately" identifies as female, goes through the hormone treatment, not for purposes of qualifying for the Olympics, but because he wants to be female, but happens to be an athlete, is in a advantageous position. He is allowed testosterone levels on the upper end of what is defined as 'normal' for females. But actual females who may be in the normal range, but half of his levels, can not increase their natural testosterone to match his.

The fact is, a man may be allowed to compete against women, by bringing his testosterone levels down. He will have an advantage, especially if he had trained for many years with full testosterone levels. The motivation for such nonsense is not really my concern here. These are physical competitions. Physically it is a man being allowed to compete against women.
In the end, they will all pretty much taste the same.

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Re: And so it begins.....

#10 Post by silverscreenselect » Mon Jan 25, 2016 8:51 am

BackInTex wrote: He will have an advantage, especially if he had trained for many years with full testosterone levels.
You mean kind of like students who have studied for many years in better funded schools who have an advantage against those who attend poorly funded, poorly taught inner city public schools.

Okay, I understand you.
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Re: And so it begins.....

#11 Post by BackInTex » Mon Jan 25, 2016 9:08 am

silverscreenselect wrote:
BackInTex wrote: He will have an advantage, especially if he had trained for many years with full testosterone levels.
You mean kind of like students who have studied for many years in better funded schools who have an advantage against those who attend poorly funded, poorly taught inner city public schools.

Okay, I understand you.
No you don't. Not even close.

The advantage most successful students have over less successful ones are their parents, not the school.
In the end, they will all pretty much taste the same.

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Re: And so it begins.....

#12 Post by silverscreenselect » Mon Jan 25, 2016 10:16 am

BackInTex wrote: The advantage most successful students have over less successful ones are their parents, not the school.
And the relative amounts of testosterone and estrogen an athlete has in his/her body has absolutely nothing to do with the parents.
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Re: And so it begins.....

#13 Post by Bob Juch » Mon Jan 25, 2016 10:26 am

silverscreenselect wrote:
BackInTex wrote: The advantage most successful students have over less successful ones are their parents, not the school.
And the relative amounts of testosterone and estrogen an athlete has in his/her body has absolutely nothing to do with the parents.
Of course it does, It's genetic.
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Re: And so it begins.....

#14 Post by BackInTex » Mon Jan 25, 2016 11:45 am

silverscreenselect wrote:
BackInTex wrote: The advantage most successful students have over less successful ones are their parents, not the school.
And the relative amounts of testosterone and estrogen an athlete has in his/her body has absolutely nothing to do with the parents.
How is that even relevant to this discussion? The only way it is related is the fact that once again, you are wrong.
In the end, they will all pretty much taste the same.

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Re: And so it begins.....

#15 Post by silverscreenselect » Mon Jan 25, 2016 12:07 pm

Bob Juch wrote:
silverscreenselect wrote:
BackInTex wrote: The advantage most successful students have over less successful ones are their parents, not the school.
And the relative amounts of testosterone and estrogen an athlete has in his/her body has absolutely nothing to do with the parents.
Of course it does, It's genetic.
I forgot the sarcafont.

My point was that BiT seems to have differing standards about whether people should "play by the same rules" or whether we should take their background into effect depending upon his mood at the time.
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Re: And so it begins.....

#16 Post by BackInTex » Mon Jan 25, 2016 1:28 pm

silverscreenselect wrote: My point was that BiT seems to have differing standards about whether people should "play by the same rules" or whether we should take their background into effect depending upon his mood at the time.
You've forgotten more than the font. Logic for one.

There is absolutely no connection between the subject at hand and disparity of educational spending. Have you had a stroke recently?
In the end, they will all pretty much taste the same.

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Re: And so it begins.....

#17 Post by silverscreenselect » Mon Jan 25, 2016 4:10 pm

BackInTex wrote: Have you had a stroke recently?
No, but I appreciate your concern for my health.
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Re: And so it begins.....

#18 Post by BackInTex » Tue Jun 06, 2017 1:19 pm

And now continuing the absurdity in Connecticut...

Boy who THINKS he is a girl wins state championship.
In the end, they will all pretty much taste the same.

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Re: And so it begins.....

#19 Post by Bob Juch » Tue Jun 06, 2017 2:32 pm

BackInTex wrote:And now continuing the absurdity in Connecticut...

Boy who THINKS he is a girl wins state championship.
And here's the flip side:

A girl with short hair was kicked out of a soccer tournament because she ‘looks like a boy’

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/ear ... d2b67f4762
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Re: And so it begins.....

#20 Post by jarnon » Tue Jun 06, 2017 2:40 pm

Bob Juch wrote:And here's the flip side:

A girl with short hair was kicked out of a soccer tournament because she ‘looks like a boy’
I saw this on the news and couldn't believe it. She looks like a girl with short hair. She doesn't have a crew cut or anything boyish. No wonder the league officials are avoiding the press. The support from Mia Hamm and Abby Wambach should help her feel better.

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Re: And so it begins.....

#21 Post by BackInTex » Tue Jun 06, 2017 3:01 pm

Bob Juch wrote: And here's the flip side:

A girl with short hair was kicked out of a soccer tournament because she ‘looks like a boy’

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/ear ... d2b67f4762
I saw that. How stupid.

The youth sports league here requires birth certificates, to verify age. Also could be used to verify sex if necessary. (Note: I did not use the term "gender" because it seems to be a misunderstood term nowadays).
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Re: And so it begins.....

#22 Post by mrkelley23 » Tue Jun 06, 2017 3:07 pm

BackInTex wrote:
Bob Juch wrote: And here's the flip side:

A girl with short hair was kicked out of a soccer tournament because she ‘looks like a boy’

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/ear ... d2b67f4762
I saw that. How stupid.

The youth sports league here requires birth certificates, to verify age. Also could be used to verify sex if necessary. (Note: I did not use the term "gender" because it seems to be a misunderstood term nowadays).
I took an education law class last summer, just as the issue of facilities for transgendered students was exploding. My professor, when calling on me for an opinion, seemed surprised that I immediately went to the difference between sex and gender (I don't think she knew I was a science teacher at that point) and that I was disappointed in the Obama administration for taking the coward's way out on Title IX. If you want to change Title IX, by all means, change it. It's been what, 40+ years? But do it the right way, inviting public comment and doing the necessary hard work of convincing folks. Don't just redefine a word to say what you want it to say.
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Re: And so it begins.....

#23 Post by Appa23 » Wed Jun 07, 2017 11:35 am

BackInTex wrote:
Bob Juch wrote: And here's the flip side:

A girl with short hair was kicked out of a soccer tournament because she ‘looks like a boy’

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/ear ... d2b67f4762
I saw that. How stupid.

The youth sports league here requires birth certificates, to verify age. Also could be used to verify sex if necessary. (Note: I did not use the term "gender" because it seems to be a misunderstood term nowadays).
They do use birth certificates. More specifically, each team rosters their players with the state soccer association, providing copies of birth certificates among other items for each player. Each player then is issued a player pass (though given to the coach), and the coach brings those (laminated) passes to the game. (I also brought copies of each birth certificate to the game when I coached select soccer.)

This is just another example of the fake story getting out ahead of the real story.

The player and team were not disqualified because "she looked like a boy." The team was disqualified because the official team roster, both for their league and for this tournament, listed the player as a male, not a female. Seems to have been a typo, but the official roster is what needs to be followed, if you went by the "letter of the rules".

State soccer association has come out and send that it likely could have been handled differently. I imagine that the player pass would show the correct gender/sex of the player. It is laughable that the dad or coach thought that an insurance card would be sufficient proof. It seems to me that the coach could have solved the problem in one of two ways.

1. PROOF READ THE ROSTER!

2. Carry the cards and birth certificates to every game.

The other issue is that this was a tournament in a small town that ws not sanctioned by the state soccer association. I have had player eligibility issues arise in tournaments before, and they can be quickly and easily handled through documentation. (Tournaments always raise issues because you are allowed to bring on guest players.)

BTW, that is the biggest fact that gets left out of the story, as I understand the circumstances. Even if the team was not DQ'd for this player, it would have been DQ''s because players were improperly on more than one team's roster for the tournament. (Playing for teams at different age levels.)

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Re: And so it begins.....

#24 Post by BackInTex » Mon Jun 11, 2018 7:42 am

R.I.P. girls' athletics.

Two Transgenders Blow Out Girls In State Meet
On Monday, when Connecticut had its State Open track and field championships at Willow Brook Park, one person broke the State Open records for girls in both the 100 and 200-meter runs.

That person was a biological boy.
In the end, they will all pretty much taste the same.

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Re: And so it begins.....

#25 Post by jarnon » Fri Jun 22, 2018 11:58 am

BackInTex wrote:R.I.P. girls' athletics.

Two Transgenders Blow Out Girls In State Meet
On Monday, when Connecticut had its State Open track and field championships at Willow Brook Park, one person broke the State Open records for girls in both the 100 and 200-meter runs.

That person was a biological boy.
I saw a story about this today. It says Texas and some other states require surgery or extensive hormone treatment before a transgender athlete can compete. The NCAA requires a year of testosterone suppression. That should suffice to root out imposters. And if a few transgenders still have a bit of an advantage after therapy, well, it's just a high school track meet.

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