Update on Trump Legal Cases

[wbtravis007]

Wb, you know this is all sound and fury. Accept your fate.

Ok. I’ll accept my fate.

Please reveal to me what it is.

[Beebs52]

More of the same? Crazyass shit? We're too old to angst over some of this. Don't have the energy to try to change the political consequences in the world. We all are what we are. He who prevails, prevails.

[Beebs52]

As in you hate Trump, I'll put up with Trump.

[wbtravis007]

As in you hate Trump, I'll put up with Trump.

I’ll put up with Roe v. Wade-ish abortions.

You?

[Beebs52]

States' rights.

[wbtravis007]

States' rights.

You’d be fine with Texas codifying Roe?

[Beebs52]

As in making it law? If it happens it happens. It's called state's rights. You're giving me a headache.

[wbtravis007]

As in making it law? If it happens it happens. It's called state's rights. You're giving me a headache.

How ‘bout if we just don’t worry our pretty little heads about what we each respectively find to be abhorrent.

[Beebs52]

As in making it law? If it happens it happens. It's called state's rights. You're giving me a headache.

How ‘bout if we just don’t worry our pretty little heads about what we each respectively find to be abhorrent.

Or just tell each other to fuck off so we don't lose what wispy hair may be trailing during our rantings?

[Beebs52]

Wouldn't want yer pretty lil head to get sunburned.

[wbtravis007]

I think that this judge has been incredibly impressive so far under extraordinarily difficult circumstances.

The rantings coming from the defendant and them is no worse than I expected, but still … .

[silverscreenselect]

Election day in Georgia yesterday. Both Fani Willis and Judge Scott McAFee won their races with over 80% of the vote. McAfee is in for another four years, while Willis will face a Republican in November but is expected to win. The only race of note was for a Supreme Court seat, and incumbent Andrew Pinson, a conservative, defeated former Congressman John Barrow, who made protecting reproductive rights the cornerstone of his campaign, by about 10 points.

[silverscreenselect]

Rudy Giuliani has agreed not to accuse Georgia election workers Ruby Freeman and Shaye Moss of election fraud any more as part of a settlement of their second defamation suit against him. This doesn't affect the first suit, which ended in a $148 million verdict for the pair. Giuliani also pled not guilty yesterday and posted a $10,000 bond in the Arizona fake electors case.

[flockofseagulls104]

Rudy Giuliani has agreed not to accuse Georgia election workers Ruby Freeman and Shaye Moss of election fraud any more as part of a settlement of their second defamation suit against him. This doesn't affect the first suit, which ended in a $148 million verdict for the pair. Giuliani also pled not guilty yesterday and posted a $10,000 bond in the Arizona fake electors case.

The irony of all this is that Freeman and Moss ARE guilty of election fraud.

[silverscreenselect]

The irony of all this is that Freeman and Moss ARE guilty of election fraud.

It cost Rudy Giuliani $148 million to say that.

[flockofseagulls104]

The irony of all this is that Freeman and Moss ARE guilty of election fraud.

It cost Rudy Giuliani $148 million to say that.

Doesn't mean he was wrong. Means Freeman and Moss picked the right lawyers with the money and pull to fix the verdict.

BTW, trollboy, are Trump's claims still baseless?

[silverscreenselect]

BTW, trollboy, are Trump's claims still baseless?

Yes, they are. There was a full recount in Georgia one week after the election. In that recount, Trump gained a little over 900 net votes in Fulton County in that recount. After that recount (and a second recount), Biden won by 11, 779 votes, which led to the January call to Brad Raffensperger, "Find me 11, 780 votes." Trump and his backers filed three different lawsuits in Georgia after the 2020 election and lost all three. Here's the report on what happened at the Georgia Election Board earlier this month:

The State Election Board reprimanded Fulton County and ordered an independent election monitor Tuesday, finding that the county likely scanned over 3,000 ballots twice during the recount of the 2020 presidential election. The case exposed errors in Fulton’s 2020 recount but didn’t indicate any fraud in the election, which Democrat Joe Biden won by a 11,779-vote margin in Georgia over Republican Donald Trump. Three vote counts — two by machine and one by hand — each showed similar results.

Election investigators said they were unable to confirm that the double-scanned ballots were actually counted twice in the recount, which was the official result of the election. During the recount, Trump gained 939 net votes against Biden in Fulton County, where Biden received 73% support, according to the results. But state election officials said the election was accurate and all votes were counted.

Were there mistakes made in Fulton County? Yes, but there are mistakes in every election. There were mistakes in Trump's favor in other counties. Was there fraud? No. Did the mistakes change the results of the election? No. And Trump implicitly realized this when he confirmed the result to Raffensperger by asking for one more than we had, e.g. the 11,779 Biden won by. Were Trump's claims baseless? Yes. No fraud and no mistakes sufficient to possibly change the election results. Further, whatever mistakes were made in the original count were corrected in the recount and that's the official result, and the result Trump's people challenged three times in court and lost.

And for what it's worth, the state has changed the machines used in the 2020 election and Fulton County has implemented better safeguards, which have been noted in the several elections held there since 2020.

[flockofseagulls104]

BTW, trollboy, are Trump's claims still baseless?

Yes, they are. There was a full recount in Georgia one week after the election. In that recount, Trump gained a little over 900 net votes in Fulton County in that recount. After that recount (and a second recount), Biden won by 11, 779 votes, which led to the January call to Brad Raffensperger, "Find me 11, 780 votes." Trump and his backers filed three different lawsuits in Georgia after the 2020 election and lost all three. Here's the report on what happened at the Georgia Election Board earlier this month:

The State Election Board reprimanded Fulton County and ordered an independent election monitor Tuesday, finding that the county likely scanned over 3,000 ballots twice during the recount of the 2020 presidential election. The case exposed errors in Fulton’s 2020 recount but didn’t indicate any fraud in the election, which Democrat Joe Biden won by a 11,779-vote margin in Georgia over Republican Donald Trump. Three vote counts — two by machine and one by hand — each showed similar results.

Election investigators said they were unable to confirm that the double-scanned ballots were actually counted twice in the recount, which was the official result of the election. During the recount, Trump gained 939 net votes against Biden in Fulton County, where Biden received 73% support, according to the results. But state election officials said the election was accurate and all votes were counted.

Were there mistakes made in Fulton County? Yes, but there are mistakes in every election. There were mistakes in Trump's favor in other counties. Was there fraud? No. Did the mistakes change the results of the election? No. And Trump implicitly realized this when he confirmed the result to Raffensperger by asking for one more than we had, e.g. the 11,779 Biden won by. Were Trump's claims baseless? Yes. No fraud and no mistakes sufficient to possibly change the election results. Further, whatever mistakes were made in the original count were corrected in the recount and that's the official result, and the result Trump's people challenged three times in court and lost.

And for what it's worth, the state has changed the machines used in the 2020 election and Fulton County has implemented better safeguards, which have been noted in the several elections held there since 2020.

I suggest you find and view the entire meeting instead of quoting the AJC or whatever rag you got that flimsy excuse from. What it came down to is that there was no way for anyone else to verify any of the counts that the SOS came up with. There is absolutely no transparency, which is MANDATED by federal law. Every 'recount' came up with different numbers, and in contempt of legal mandates, the SOS will not let anyone even see the actual ballots cast, if they haven't already destroyed them. It has been shown to be a complete fiasco. The ONLY source of who won the Georgia election in 2020 is the SOS. Fulton County and the SOS have violated 140 state election laws, they are missing or will not turn over documentation that they are legally mandated to. They have no explanation for the concrete evidence that Rossi presented, and no one is, at this point, being held accountable because of one man: Ed Lindsey.

The Curling v Raffensperger ruling is late. I don't know if that's good news or bad, but depending on Totenberg's ruling, and possible further action by the newly configured State Election Board, the shit could hit the fan for you election fraud enablers. But who knows what political and legal pressure is going on behind the scenes?

I'd say that there is a very strong basis for questioning the results of the 2020 Georgia election. And so would any other reasoning person who doesn't suffer from an extreme case of TDS. And because of the SEB's findings that the counts are in question, there is basis for questioning the results of the entire National election. So thousands of 'news' articles, corrupt politicians, and communistic billionaires that constantly push the point that Trump had no basis for questioning the election are WRONG. It is the epitome of a lie repeated frequently and loudly enough 'becomes' the truth. But they don't care, because they have the tools and the ability to mold and shape public opinion that Putin can only dream of. Because they have people like you.

I don't care at this point whether Trump won in 2020. I care about the veracity and security of the upcoming 2024 election. And if you had any sense, so would you. But all you do is fight against it.

I'm surprised that some enterprising lawyer on your side hasn't come up with the idea of acknowledging the fact that Trump won in 2020, and arguing that he is prohibited from running for a third term. They've tried everything else.

[silverscreenselect]

I'd say that there is a very strong basis for questioning the results of the 2020 Georgia election. And so would any other reasoning person who doesn't suffer from an extreme case of TDS. And because of the SEB's findings that the counts are in question, there is basis for questioning the results of the entire National election.

Out of curiosity, Flock, how do you know there wasn't any voter fraud in North Carolina or Florida or any other state that Trump won? I'm sure Democrats could have found reasons to file 60 baseless lawsuits in those states if they wanted to. Or how do you know there wasn't voter fraud in those 100 or more smaller counties that Trump won here in Georgia? We know for sure they broke into one election office in Coffee County. They might not have been so clumsy in other counties. We also know for sure that the vice-chairman of the Georgia Republican Party, who kept claiming there was voter fraud in the 2020 election, was guilty of voter fraud himself, nine times in different elections. (The statute of limitations has run on those, so he can't be prosecuted.)

[flockofseagulls104]

I'd say that there is a very strong basis for questioning the results of the 2020 Georgia election. And so would any other reasoning person who doesn't suffer from an extreme case of TDS. And because of the SEB's findings that the counts are in question, there is basis for questioning the results of the entire National election.

Out of curiosity, Flock, how do you know there wasn't any voter fraud in North Carolina or Florida or any other state that Trump won? I'm sure Democrats could have found reasons to file 60 baseless lawsuits in those states if they wanted to. Or how do you know there wasn't voter fraud in those 100 or more smaller counties that Trump won here in Georgia? We know for sure they broke into one election office in Coffee County. They might not have been so clumsy in other counties. We also know for sure that the vice-chairman of the Georgia Republican Party, who kept claiming there was voter fraud in the 2020 election, was guilty of voter fraud himself, nine times in different elections. (The statute of limitations has run on those, so he can't be prosecuted.)

Nice try.
I do know and there is clear evidence that no one knows what the actual vote count was in your county in Georgia. Why don't you address that instead of reaching for excuses out in left field.
Trump's claims were not baseless. That is a fact.

[flockofseagulls104]

Explain to me, trollboy or booby, what exactly is the crime that Alvin Bragg is prosecuting Trump for? And why is it so serious that it requires his presence in the courtroom for months on end?

[silverscreenselect]

Closing arguments today. The defense goes first and has 2 1/2 hours, then the prosecution has 4 1/2 hours. There's no rebuttal or reservation of time, so when the defense sits down this afternoon, that's the end of their argument. The judge will give jury instructions tomorrow (this week is the only time the court is meeting on Wednesday), followed by deliberations.

My prediction is that they convict on 32 of the 34 counts. There were 11 checks, and Trump is charged with one felony for each check, each invoice for "legal services" that backed the check, and for each ledger entry. There's an additional count for an additional fraudulent ledger entry as well. The first two checks to Cohen were written from the Trump trust and signed by Don, Jr., and Eric. The last nine checks were written on Trump's personal account and signed by him. The jury might find it possible that Trump Jr. and Eric weren't privy to what their father was doing with Michael Cohen and David Pecker.

And to answer Flock's last question, Trump is being prosecuted for business fraud. Here's what the statutes say:

The New York statutes that Trump will stand trial for violating are not unique: at least six other states have adopted substantively identical statutes. The New York statute prohibiting falsifying business records in the second degree (a misdemeanor) provides as follows:

A person is guilty of falsifying business records in the second degree when, with intent to defraud, he:

Makes or causes a false entry in the business records of an enterprise; or
Alters, erases, obliterates, deletes, removes or destroys a true entry in the business records of an enterprise; or
Omits to make a true entry in the business records of an enterprise in violation of a duty to do so which he knows to be imposed upon him by law or by the nature of his position; or
Prevents the making of a true entry or causes the omission thereof in the business records of an enterprise.

Falsifying business records in the second degree is a class A misdemeanor.

The statute prohibiting falsifying business records in the first degree (a felony) requires an additional element:

A person is guilty of falsifying business records in the first degree when he commits the crime of falsifying business records in the second degree, and when his intent to defraud includes an intent to commit another crime or to aid or conceal the commission thereof.

Falsifying business records in the first degree is a class E felony.

[flockofseagulls104]

Closing arguments today. The defense goes first and has 2 1/2 hours, then the prosecution has 4 1/2 hours. There's no rebuttal or reservation of time, so when the defense sits down this afternoon, that's the end of their argument. The judge will give jury instructions tomorrow (this week is the only time the court is meeting on Wednesday), followed by deliberations.

My prediction is that they convict on 32 of the 34 counts. There were 11 checks, and Trump is charged with one felony for each check, each invoice for "legal services" that backed the check, and for each ledger entry. There's an additional count for an additional fraudulent ledger entry as well. The first two checks to Cohen were written from the Trump trust and signed by Don, Jr., and Eric. The last nine checks were written on Trump's personal account and signed by him. The jury might find it possible that Trump Jr. and Eric weren't privy to what their father was doing with Michael Cohen and David Pecker.

And to answer Flock's last question, Trump is being prosecuted for business fraud. Here's what the statutes say:

The New York statutes that Trump will stand trial for violating are not unique: at least six other states have adopted substantively identical statutes. The New York statute prohibiting falsifying business records in the second degree (a misdemeanor) provides as follows:

A person is guilty of falsifying business records in the second degree when, with intent to defraud, he:

Makes or causes a false entry in the business records of an enterprise; or
Alters, erases, obliterates, deletes, removes or destroys a true entry in the business records of an enterprise; or
Omits to make a true entry in the business records of an enterprise in violation of a duty to do so which he knows to be imposed upon him by law or by the nature of his position; or
Prevents the making of a true entry or causes the omission thereof in the business records of an enterprise.

Falsifying business records in the second degree is a class A misdemeanor.

The statute prohibiting falsifying business records in the first degree (a felony) requires an additional element:

A person is guilty of falsifying business records in the first degree when he commits the crime of falsifying business records in the second degree, and when his intent to defraud includes an intent to commit another crime or to aid or conceal the commission thereof.

Falsifying business records in the first degree is a class E felony.

Amazingly, every other higher authority that this issue came across decided not to pursue it. One of Obama and Biden's chief legal advisors quit and took a big demotion apparently in order to get this jurisdiction to pursue this issue. It comes down to a category assigned in a ledger for payments to a lawyer. We've spent millions of dollars, weeks of media coverage and more lawfare on whether someone recorded this as 'Legal Expense' or 'Campaign Expense'. Really? For an event that probably never even happened? The supposedly injured party (which has NOTHING to do with what is supposedly the question of this case) denied in writing and publicly that the underlying event NEVER OCCURED! The highly conflicted judge has violated people's FIRST AMENDMENT rights in pursuit of a guilty verdict. Again: WHO WAS DEFRAUDED OF WHAT? You people with TDS are certifiably insane.

[wbtravis007]

Closing arguments today. The defense goes first and has 2 1/2 hours, then the prosecution has 4 1/2 hours. There's no rebuttal or reservation of time, so when the defense sits down this afternoon, that's the end of their argument. The judge will give jury instructions tomorrow (this week is the only time the court is meeting on Wednesday), followed by deliberations.

My prediction is that they convict on 32 of the 34 counts. There were 11 checks, and Trump is charged with one felony for each check, each invoice for "legal services" that backed the check, and for each ledger entry. There's an additional count for an additional fraudulent ledger entry as well. The first two checks to Cohen were written from the Trump trust and signed by Don, Jr., and Eric. The last nine checks were written on Trump's personal account and signed by him. The jury might find it possible that Trump Jr. and Eric weren't privy to what their father was doing with Michael Cohen and David Pecker.

And to answer Flock's last question, Trump is being prosecuted for business fraud. Here's what the statutes say:

The New York statutes that Trump will stand trial for violating are not unique: at least six other states have adopted substantively identical statutes. The New York statute prohibiting falsifying business records in the second degree (a misdemeanor) provides as follows:

A person is guilty of falsifying business records in the second degree when, with intent to defraud, he:

Makes or causes a false entry in the business records of an enterprise; or
Alters, erases, obliterates, deletes, removes or destroys a true entry in the business records of an enterprise; or
Omits to make a true entry in the business records of an enterprise in violation of a duty to do so which he knows to be imposed upon him by law or by the nature of his position; or
Prevents the making of a true entry or causes the omission thereof in the business records of an enterprise.

Falsifying business records in the second degree is a class A misdemeanor.

The statute prohibiting falsifying business records in the first degree (a felony) requires an additional element:

A person is guilty of falsifying business records in the first degree when he commits the crime of falsifying business records in the second degree, and when his intent to defraud includes an intent to commit another crime or to aid or conceal the commission thereof.

Falsifying business records in the first degree is a class E felony.

Amazingly, every other higher authority that this issue came across decided not to pursue it. One of Obama and Biden's chief legal advisors quit and took a big demotion apparently in order to get this jurisdiction to pursue this issue. It comes down to a category assigned in a ledger for payments to a lawyer. We've spent millions of dollars, weeks of media coverage and more lawfare on whether someone recorded this as 'Legal Expense' or 'Campaign Expense'. Really? For an event that probably never even happened? The supposedly injured party (which has NOTHING to do with what is supposedly the question of this case) denied in writing and publicly that the underlying event NEVER OCCURED! The highly conflicted judge has violated people's FIRST AMENDMENT rights in pursuit of a guilty verdict. Again: WHO WAS DEFRAUDED OF WHAT? You people with TDS are certifiably insane.

Guess you didn’t try to get brought up-to-date by your friend who lives in South Texas or anybody. Just the same old flawed talking points.

The frothing is getting worse.

[flockofseagulls104]

Finally a judge in a Trump Lawfare case that has a bit of character and ethics. Judge Cannon denies Jack Smith's request to take away President Trump's First Amendment rights.
Too bad she doesn't have enough to throw out the entire case, which is what should happen.