Joseph Ellis on Impeachment

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kroxquo
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Joseph Ellis on Impeachment

#1 Post by kroxquo » Mon Jan 20, 2020 5:58 pm

Pulitzer Prize winning historian for his book "Founding Brothers" comes down pretty hard in favor of impeachment. Key quote: "James Madison is the guiding light of most legal scholars, and the Madisonian doctrine of checks and balances would be forever compromised if Trump's behavior is endorsed."

https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/20/opinions ... index.html
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Re: Joseph Ellis on Impeachment

#2 Post by Beebs52 » Mon Jan 20, 2020 6:08 pm

Oh please.

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Re: Joseph Ellis on Impeachment

#3 Post by Pastor Fireball » Mon Jan 20, 2020 6:10 pm

At this point, the question is no longer "Is Drumpf guilty?" because every real American knows that the correct answer is "Drumpf is guilty as sin." There are three more important questions that should be asked and answered:

1. How many more Drumpf crimes will Republicans knowingly and deliberately condone and abet?

2. How many more feeble excuses will Republicans make to justify Drumpf's crimes?

3. How many more innocent humans have to be physically and constitutionally violated by Drumpf's anti-Christian anti-American jihad before Republicans finally say "enough is enough, you're gone"?
"[Drumpf's] name alone creates division and anger, whose words inspire dissension and hatred, and can't possibly 'Make America Great Again.'" --Kobe Bryant (1978-2020)

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Re: Joseph Ellis on Impeachment

#4 Post by Beebs52 » Mon Jan 20, 2020 6:14 pm

Pastor Fireball wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 6:10 pm
At this point, the question is no longer "Is Drumpf guilty?" because every real American knows that the correct answer is "Drumpf is guilty as sin." There are three more important questions that should be asked and answered:

1. How many more Drumpf crimes will Republicans knowingly and deliberately condone and abet?

2. How many more feeble excuses will Republicans make to justify Drumpf's crimes?

3. How many more innocent humans have to be physically and constitutionally violated by Drumpf's anti-Christian anti-American jihad before Republicans finally say "enough is enough, you're gone"?
Take a deep breath pookie.
Oh please.

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Re: Joseph Ellis on Impeachment

#5 Post by a1mamacat » Mon Jan 20, 2020 8:41 pm

Beebs52 wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 6:14 pm
Pastor Fireball wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 6:10 pm
At this point, the question is no longer "Is Drumpf guilty?" because every real American knows that the correct answer is "Drumpf is guilty as sin." There are three more important questions that should be asked and answered:

1. How many more Drumpf crimes will Republicans knowingly and deliberately condone and abet?

2. How many more feeble excuses will Republicans make to justify Drumpf's crimes?

3. How many more innocent humans have to be physically and constitutionally violated by Drumpf's anti-Christian anti-American jihad before Republicans finally say "enough is enough, you're gone"?
Take a deep breath pookie.
ain't you gonna 'bless his heart?" LOL
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Re: Joseph Ellis on Impeachment

#6 Post by flockofseagulls104 » Mon Jan 20, 2020 10:20 pm

kroxquo wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 5:58 pm
Pulitzer Prize winning historian for his book "Founding Brothers" comes down pretty hard in favor of impeachment. Key quote: "James Madison is the guiding light of most legal scholars, and the Madisonian doctrine of checks and balances would be forever compromised if Trump's behavior is endorsed."

https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/20/opinions ... index.html
Many other historians who undoubtedly haven't lied about their past believe it is the house and the democrats who have jeopardised the checks and balances doctrine.
Personally, I think the accusations that russia influenced trump have been investigated up the ass with no proof or even convincing evidence. I would like to see what kind of influence foreign countries can hold over other presidential candidates, like Mr Biden, before they're nominated. Wouldn't you?
Right. He's been cleared of any wrong doing. By who? I don't recall any investigation. Do you?
Your friendly neighborhood racist. On the waiting list to be a nazi. Designated an honorary 'snowflake'. Trolled by the very best, as well as by BJ. Always typical, unlike others.., Fulminator, Hopelessly in the tank for trump... inappropriate... Flocking himself... Probably a tucking sexist, too... All thought comes from the right wing noise machine(TM)... A clear and present threat to The Future Of Our Democracy.. Doesn't understand anything... Made the trump apologist and enabler playoffs... Heathen bastard

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Re: Joseph Ellis on Impeachment

#7 Post by silverscreenselect » Mon Jan 20, 2020 11:06 pm

flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 10:20 pm

Many other historians who undoubtedly haven't lied about their past believe it is the house and the democrats who have jeopardised the checks and balances doctrine.
Personally, I think the accusations that russia influenced trump have been investigated up the ass with no proof or even convincing evidence. I would like to see what kind of influence foreign countries can hold over other presidential candidates, like Mr Biden, before they're nominated. Wouldn't you?
Right. He's been cleared of any wrong doing. By who? I don't recall any investigation. Do you?
Again, the impeachment is not about whether Russia influenced Trump or not. The question is whether Trump used the power of the presidency to coerce the Ukrainian government to launch an investigation of Biden for political reasons. In Ellis' view, the broader question is whether the President is above the law, period, a stance that Trump and his lawyers have repeatedly laid out.

In your view, apparently, anything Trump has done is okay because the stock market is going well and he said the right nasty things to Iran.
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Re: Joseph Ellis on Impeachment

#8 Post by flockofseagulls104 » Mon Jan 20, 2020 11:26 pm

silverscreenselect wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 11:06 pm
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 10:20 pm

Many other historians who undoubtedly haven't lied about their past believe it is the house and the democrats who have jeopardised the checks and balances doctrine.
Personally, I think the accusations that russia influenced trump have been investigated up the ass with no proof or even convincing evidence. I would like to see what kind of influence foreign countries can hold over other presidential candidates, like Mr Biden, before they're nominated. Wouldn't you?
Right. He's been cleared of any wrong doing. By who? I don't recall any investigation. Do you?
Again, the impeachment is not about whether Russia influenced Trump or not. The question is whether Trump used the power of the presidency to coerce the Ukrainian government to launch an investigation of Biden for political reasons. In Ellis' view, the broader question is whether the President is above the law, period, a stance that Trump and his lawyers have repeatedly laid out.

In your view, apparently, anything Trump has done is okay because the stock market is going well and he said the right nasty things to Iran.
You have no comprehension of anyone's view. Not even your own.
The dems, and ONLY the dems, have used the power of the house to launch an impeachment of the duly elected president for political reasons. There is an abundance of evidence over the past 3 years that it has been their goal. Way before that phone call. And they have used their control and their operatives in the media to promote their goal. That is abuse of power, sir. And it is certainly contempt for the executive, which is something you and yours have in spades. And that shakes the foundation of balance of power. You'll see that the next time there's a democrat president and a repub congress.
Trump has done a lot of things, some good, some not so good. He, at least, is one person who stands up to the corruption, hypocrisy and stupidity of the left. And he used to be one of you. I wish he'd do it in a more mature, tactful way. But you Can't Always Get What You Want. But it's the one thing for which I am all in with him. This has got to stop.
Your friendly neighborhood racist. On the waiting list to be a nazi. Designated an honorary 'snowflake'. Trolled by the very best, as well as by BJ. Always typical, unlike others.., Fulminator, Hopelessly in the tank for trump... inappropriate... Flocking himself... Probably a tucking sexist, too... All thought comes from the right wing noise machine(TM)... A clear and present threat to The Future Of Our Democracy.. Doesn't understand anything... Made the trump apologist and enabler playoffs... Heathen bastard

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Re: Joseph Ellis on Impeachment

#9 Post by silverscreenselect » Tue Jan 21, 2020 12:06 am

flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 11:26 pm
And it is certainly contempt for the executive, which is something you and yours have in spades. And that shakes the foundation of balance of power. You'll see that the next time there's a democrat president and a repub congress.
And we saw it the last time there was a Democratic president and a Republican Congress, when Mitch McConnell wouldn't even consider the nomination of Merrick Garland to the Supreme Court. And ever since the day he was elected, Obama was the target of Republican abuse.

So this didn't start with Trump. And you ignore the fact that large numbers of independents agree about Trump's impeachment as well.
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Re: Joseph Ellis on Impeachment

#10 Post by Bob78164 » Tue Jan 21, 2020 1:09 am

silverscreenselect wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 12:06 am
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 11:26 pm
And it is certainly contempt for the executive, which is something you and yours have in spades. And that shakes the foundation of balance of power. You'll see that the next time there's a democrat president and a repub congress.
And we saw it the last time there was a Democratic president and a Republican Congress, when Mitch McConnell wouldn't even consider the nomination of Merrick Garland to the Supreme Court. And ever since the day he was elected, Obama was the target of Republican abuse.

So this didn't start with Trump. And you ignore the fact that large numbers of independents agree about Trump's impeachment as well.
The most recent poll I've seen has a majority of the American people (not a plurality, a majority) saying that Donny should be removed from office and a two-thirds majority saying that the Senate should hear from witnesses. --Bob
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Re: Joseph Ellis on Impeachment

#11 Post by flockofseagulls104 » Tue Jan 21, 2020 6:48 am

Bob78164 wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 1:09 am
silverscreenselect wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 12:06 am
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 11:26 pm
And it is certainly contempt for the executive, which is something you and yours have in spades. And that shakes the foundation of balance of power. You'll see that the next time there's a democrat president and a repub congress.
And we saw it the last time there was a Democratic president and a Republican Congress, when Mitch McConnell wouldn't even consider the nomination of Merrick Garland to the Supreme Court. And ever since the day he was elected, Obama was the target of Republican abuse.

So this didn't start with Trump. And you ignore the fact that large numbers of independents agree about Trump's impeachment as well.
The most recent poll I've seen has a majority of the American people (not a plurality, a majority) saying that Donny should be removed from office and a two-thirds majority saying that the Senate should hear from witnesses. --Bob
Good for the polls. President Clinton would be impressed.

According to your polls, a substantial minority don't. What are you going to do? Put them in gulags?
Your friendly neighborhood racist. On the waiting list to be a nazi. Designated an honorary 'snowflake'. Trolled by the very best, as well as by BJ. Always typical, unlike others.., Fulminator, Hopelessly in the tank for trump... inappropriate... Flocking himself... Probably a tucking sexist, too... All thought comes from the right wing noise machine(TM)... A clear and present threat to The Future Of Our Democracy.. Doesn't understand anything... Made the trump apologist and enabler playoffs... Heathen bastard

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Re: Joseph Ellis on Impeachment

#12 Post by flockofseagulls104 » Tue Jan 21, 2020 9:23 am

silverscreenselect wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 12:06 am
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 11:26 pm
And it is certainly contempt for the executive, which is something you and yours have in spades. And that shakes the foundation of balance of power. You'll see that the next time there's a democrat president and a repub congress.
And we saw it the last time there was a Democratic president and a Republican Congress, when Mitch McConnell wouldn't even consider the nomination of Merrick Garland to the Supreme Court. And ever since the day he was elected, Obama was the target of Republican abuse.

So this didn't start with Trump. And you ignore the fact that large numbers of independents agree about Trump's impeachment as well.
I am an independent and I completely disagree. This partisan bullshit has got to stop.
The Garland complaint is a dead issue. We discussed that. It would have been a waste of taxpayer money. He was DOA. Just like Robert Bork. The Republicans would not allow Scalia to be replaced with a liberal justice. Period. So is this impeachment shit. A huge waste of taxpayer money.

You keep to your belief I am a member of the republican party. I am not. They are a corrupt party. I agree with you there. Their main interest is the acquiring and maintaining of power. What you don't see is that your beloved democrat party is even more corrupt. Acquiring and maintaining power is their ONLY interest.
Your friendly neighborhood racist. On the waiting list to be a nazi. Designated an honorary 'snowflake'. Trolled by the very best, as well as by BJ. Always typical, unlike others.., Fulminator, Hopelessly in the tank for trump... inappropriate... Flocking himself... Probably a tucking sexist, too... All thought comes from the right wing noise machine(TM)... A clear and present threat to The Future Of Our Democracy.. Doesn't understand anything... Made the trump apologist and enabler playoffs... Heathen bastard

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Re: Joseph Ellis on Impeachment

#13 Post by kroxquo » Tue Jan 21, 2020 9:46 am

flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 9:23 am
silverscreenselect wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 12:06 am
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 11:26 pm
And it is certainly contempt for the executive, which is something you and yours have in spades. And that shakes the foundation of balance of power. You'll see that the next time there's a democrat president and a repub congress.
And we saw it the last time there was a Democratic president and a Republican Congress, when Mitch McConnell wouldn't even consider the nomination of Merrick Garland to the Supreme Court. And ever since the day he was elected, Obama was the target of Republican abuse.

So this didn't start with Trump. And you ignore the fact that large numbers of independents agree about Trump's impeachment as well.
I am an independent and I completely disagree. This partisan bullshit has got to stop.
The Garland complaint is a dead issue. We discussed that. It would have been a waste of taxpayer money. He was DOA. Just like Robert Bork. The Republicans would not allow Scalia to be replaced with a liberal justice. Period. So is this impeachment shit. A huge waste of taxpayer money.

You keep to your belief I am a member of the republican party. I am not. They are a corrupt party. I agree with you there. Their main interest is the acquiring and maintaining of power. What you don't see is that your beloved democrat party is even more corrupt. Acquiring and maintaining power is their ONLY interest.
May I ask you a question? I am not interested in throwing insults or engaging in a flame war, but I genuinely am interested in learning from the other side. What brought you to embracing conservative principles (and if I am making a mistake on that, I apologize)? For myself, I have looked at how the government has operated and come to the conclusion that government has a responsibility for caring for all its citizens and that a liberal approach is better. Moreover, how did you come to support Donald Trump? I have been baffled over the last few years as to why people are so quick to support and defend a man who has so many flaws as both a President and, in my opinion, as a basic human being.
You live and learn. Or at least you live. - Douglas Adams

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Re: Joseph Ellis on Impeachment

#14 Post by flockofseagulls104 » Tue Jan 21, 2020 1:42 pm

kroxquo wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 9:46 am
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 9:23 am
silverscreenselect wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 12:06 am


And we saw it the last time there was a Democratic president and a Republican Congress, when Mitch McConnell wouldn't even consider the nomination of Merrick Garland to the Supreme Court. And ever since the day he was elected, Obama was the target of Republican abuse.

So this didn't start with Trump. And you ignore the fact that large numbers of independents agree about Trump's impeachment as well.
I am an independent and I completely disagree. This partisan bullshit has got to stop.
The Garland complaint is a dead issue. We discussed that. It would have been a waste of taxpayer money. He was DOA. Just like Robert Bork. The Republicans would not allow Scalia to be replaced with a liberal justice. Period. So is this impeachment shit. A huge waste of taxpayer money.

You keep to your belief I am a member of the republican party. I am not. They are a corrupt party. I agree with you there. Their main interest is the acquiring and maintaining of power. What you don't see is that your beloved democrat party is even more corrupt. Acquiring and maintaining power is their ONLY interest.
May I ask you a question? I am not interested in throwing insults or engaging in a flame war, but I genuinely am interested in learning from the other side. What brought you to embracing conservative principles (and if I am making a mistake on that, I apologize)? For myself, I have looked at how the government has operated and come to the conclusion that government has a responsibility for caring for all its citizens and that a liberal approach is better. Moreover, how did you come to support Donald Trump? I have been baffled over the last few years as to why people are so quick to support and defend a man who has so many flaws as both a President and, in my opinion, as a basic human being.
I don't have much time to elaborate, but I'll give you the Cliff Notes.
I was, in my youth, a flaming liberal, hippie and was involved in all the causes of the left. I was against the Vietnam War, was a McGovernite, anti nuclear, moratorium, etc etc. My first Presidential vote was for Jimmah Carter when I lived in California, and so was my second. I was a Ronald Raygun-zap kinda guy. Republicans were the party of Nixon, whom I despised.

But somewhere in my 30's, I guess it was in Reagan's 2nd term, I had been out on my own, earning a living for awhile, and I started to get exposed to actual conservatives speaking about what they believed and why, not the nightly news and editorials that gave their synopsis of what conservatives believed and why. It was when I lived in Texas, actually, and it was the start of talk radio. These were local conservative talk shows, I think on WBAP. I worked at a remote Power plant and that was the only radio I could listen to when I was working. They mentioned Rush Limbaugh a lot, but he wasn't carried back then, so he wasn't part of it.

I was exposed to examples of the hypocrisy of the democrat party. And I came to learn about Reagan's disdain for big government and why. All these things that the democrats keep campaigning about, but never happen, and then they propose more 'programs' to fix the shit their previous programs caused, etc. etc. I began to actually listen to Reagan's speeches instead of ignoring them and hearing only about what commentators said about them. I became an advocate of small federal government. The government that governs best is that that governs the least. And listening to the democrats policies and proposals, it became more and more obvious that they pander to the uninformed, have no conception of unintended consequences of their policies, and their logic is questionable at best.

Two trips I made cemented my beliefs. In 1990 I made a trip to Poland and Czechoslovakia. This was when the Russians were pulling out. I saw several convoys of Russian military equipment moving east while I was there. What the Russians had done was summed up one day while I was there. Several of the 'matkas' in the home we were visiting had just seen the report on their news that the Russians had finally admitted their guilt in the Katyn Massacre, in which hundreds of the top Polish intelligentsia were slaughtered in the Katyn Forest. It had always been blamed on the Nazis, but the Russians actually did it. These older women knew some of the people who were killed. They wept as they watched their TV's. Reagan had a very prominient role in getting the Russians out of eastern europe. All the people we met and stayed with in Poland and Czechoslovakia loved America and treated us like royalty.

I also had a job that took me down to Belem, Brazil. By the waterfront there were miles of, you couldn't call them slums. They were habitations build from scrap, corrugated sheet metal. They were on both sides of a drainage 'creek' and just full of garbage and smelled to high heaven. At night, you could actually see they had TV's in them. I asked our host why people lived like this. He said they get promises from one of the political parties that was supposed to be their champion, and they keep voting that party in power, but nothing ever changes for them. It sounded familiar.

As for trump, he was down towards the bottom of my choices of the republican candidates. I did not want him to be the nominee. I thought what he did in the primary campaign was childish, immature and stupid, and I was sick that he was always the front runner. I could not even vote for him. I lived in WA state at the time, so my vote didn't count anyway. I wrote in Ted Cruz. But I would have voted for anyone over Hillary Clinton. She had no business having any power.

People like bob complained that he was a sexual predator. Maybe he was, but they defended Clinton, they idolized JFK. Another example of self serving hypocrisy. If he pulled anything in the Oval Office, he would definitely be caught. I grew up in Jersey, and I recognize and understand New York-ese. I realize he isn't the most polished person or speaker, and I cringe at some of his tweets. But he is on the correct side of most issues, and he is getting things done despite the total obstruction of his presidency by the dems and their operatives in the news media from day one. A lot of it he's doing by executive order, which I hate. But the precedent had been set by his successor. (Again, they have no conception of unintended consequences of their actions). So a lot of what he's done can be undone by the next president, but his policies seem to be working. We have a robust economy, despite Paul Krugman's predictions, which seem to be as accurate as all SSS's. The rising economic tide is raising everyone. Lowest black, hispanic and minority unemployment in recent history. Everyone seems to be content but the democrats, who complain about everything, and if they have nothing to complain about, just make things up. I will forgive him his faults as a human being. There has never been a President who was a saint. (Well maybe Obama) Over the past 3 years I see his heart, and it seems to be doing what's best for America.

This is for kroxquo. Please don't troll it. I didn't write it for you.
Your friendly neighborhood racist. On the waiting list to be a nazi. Designated an honorary 'snowflake'. Trolled by the very best, as well as by BJ. Always typical, unlike others.., Fulminator, Hopelessly in the tank for trump... inappropriate... Flocking himself... Probably a tucking sexist, too... All thought comes from the right wing noise machine(TM)... A clear and present threat to The Future Of Our Democracy.. Doesn't understand anything... Made the trump apologist and enabler playoffs... Heathen bastard

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Re: Joseph Ellis on Impeachment

#15 Post by kroxquo » Wed Jan 22, 2020 5:22 am

flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 1:42 pm
kroxquo wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 9:46 am
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 9:23 am

I am an independent and I completely disagree. This partisan bullshit has got to stop.
The Garland complaint is a dead issue. We discussed that. It would have been a waste of taxpayer money. He was DOA. Just like Robert Bork. The Republicans would not allow Scalia to be replaced with a liberal justice. Period. So is this impeachment shit. A huge waste of taxpayer money.

You keep to your belief I am a member of the republican party. I am not. They are a corrupt party. I agree with you there. Their main interest is the acquiring and maintaining of power. What you don't see is that your beloved democrat party is even more corrupt. Acquiring and maintaining power is their ONLY interest.
May I ask you a question? I am not interested in throwing insults or engaging in a flame war, but I genuinely am interested in learning from the other side. What brought you to embracing conservative principles (and if I am making a mistake on that, I apologize)? For myself, I have looked at how the government has operated and come to the conclusion that government has a responsibility for caring for all its citizens and that a liberal approach is better. Moreover, how did you come to support Donald Trump? I have been baffled over the last few years as to why people are so quick to support and defend a man who has so many flaws as both a President and, in my opinion, as a basic human being.
I don't have much time to elaborate, but I'll give you the Cliff Notes.
I was, in my youth, a flaming liberal, hippie and was involved in all the causes of the left. I was against the Vietnam War, was a McGovernite, anti nuclear, moratorium, etc etc. My first Presidential vote was for Jimmah Carter when I lived in California, and so was my second. I was a Ronald Raygun-zap kinda guy. Republicans were the party of Nixon, whom I despised.

But somewhere in my 30's, I guess it was in Reagan's 2nd term, I had been out on my own, earning a living for awhile, and I started to get exposed to actual conservatives speaking about what they believed and why, not the nightly news and editorials that gave their synopsis of what conservatives believed and why. It was when I lived in Texas, actually, and it was the start of talk radio. These were local conservative talk shows, I think on WBAP. I worked at a remote Power plant and that was the only radio I could listen to when I was working. They mentioned Rush Limbaugh a lot, but he wasn't carried back then, so he wasn't part of it.

I was exposed to examples of the hypocrisy of the democrat party. And I came to learn about Reagan's disdain for big government and why. All these things that the democrats keep campaigning about, but never happen, and then they propose more 'programs' to fix the shit their previous programs caused, etc. etc. I began to actually listen to Reagan's speeches instead of ignoring them and hearing only about what commentators said about them. I became an advocate of small federal government. The government that governs best is that that governs the least. And listening to the democrats policies and proposals, it became more and more obvious that they pander to the uninformed, have no conception of unintended consequences of their policies, and their logic is questionable at best.

Two trips I made cemented my beliefs. In 1990 I made a trip to Poland and Czechoslovakia. This was when the Russians were pulling out. I saw several convoys of Russian military equipment moving east while I was there. What the Russians had done was summed up one day while I was there. Several of the 'matkas' in the home we were visiting had just seen the report on their news that the Russians had finally admitted their guilt in the Katyn Massacre, in which hundreds of the top Polish intelligentsia were slaughtered in the Katyn Forest. It had always been blamed on the Nazis, but the Russians actually did it. These older women knew some of the people who were killed. They wept as they watched their TV's. Reagan had a very prominient role in getting the Russians out of eastern europe. All the people we met and stayed with in Poland and Czechoslovakia loved America and treated us like royalty.

I also had a job that took me down to Belem, Brazil. By the waterfront there were miles of, you couldn't call them slums. They were habitations build from scrap, corrugated sheet metal. They were on both sides of a drainage 'creek' and just full of garbage and smelled to high heaven. At night, you could actually see they had TV's in them. I asked our host why people lived like this. He said they get promises from one of the political parties that was supposed to be their champion, and they keep voting that party in power, but nothing ever changes for them. It sounded familiar.

As for trump, he was down towards the bottom of my choices of the republican candidates. I did not want him to be the nominee. I thought what he did in the primary campaign was childish, immature and stupid, and I was sick that he was always the front runner. I could not even vote for him. I lived in WA state at the time, so my vote didn't count anyway. I wrote in Ted Cruz. But I would have voted for anyone over Hillary Clinton. She had no business having any power.

People like bob complained that he was a sexual predator. Maybe he was, but they defended Clinton, they idolized JFK. Another example of self serving hypocrisy. If he pulled anything in the Oval Office, he would definitely be caught. I grew up in Jersey, and I recognize and understand New York-ese. I realize he isn't the most polished person or speaker, and I cringe at some of his tweets. But he is on the correct side of most issues, and he is getting things done despite the total obstruction of his presidency by the dems and their operatives in the news media from day one. A lot of it he's doing by executive order, which I hate. But the precedent had been set by his successor. (Again, they have no conception of unintended consequences of their actions). So a lot of what he's done can be undone by the next president, but his policies seem to be working. We have a robust economy, despite Paul Krugman's predictions, which seem to be as accurate as all SSS's. The rising economic tide is raising everyone. Lowest black, hispanic and minority unemployment in recent history. Everyone seems to be content but the democrats, who complain about everything, and if they have nothing to complain about, just make things up. I will forgive him his faults as a human being. There has never been a President who was a saint. (Well maybe Obama) Over the past 3 years I see his heart, and it seems to be doing what's best for America.

This is for kroxquo. Please don't troll it. I didn't write it for you.
Thank you for the answer. It is food for thought.
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flockofseagulls104
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Re: Joseph Ellis on Impeachment

#16 Post by flockofseagulls104 » Sat Jan 25, 2020 10:13 am

Finally! At long last! Sane adults addressing the impeachment lunatics. About time.
Your friendly neighborhood racist. On the waiting list to be a nazi. Designated an honorary 'snowflake'. Trolled by the very best, as well as by BJ. Always typical, unlike others.., Fulminator, Hopelessly in the tank for trump... inappropriate... Flocking himself... Probably a tucking sexist, too... All thought comes from the right wing noise machine(TM)... A clear and present threat to The Future Of Our Democracy.. Doesn't understand anything... Made the trump apologist and enabler playoffs... Heathen bastard

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Re: Joseph Ellis on Impeachment

#17 Post by jarnon » Sat Jan 25, 2020 1:23 pm

flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Sat Jan 25, 2020 10:13 am
Finally! At long last! Sane adults addressing the impeachment lunatics. About time.
After al the talk that Trump’s watching and wants an interesting show, his lawyers have been calmer than Schiff & Co.

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Re: Joseph Ellis on Impeachment

#18 Post by flockofseagulls104 » Sat Jan 25, 2020 1:41 pm

jarnon wrote:
Sat Jan 25, 2020 1:23 pm
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Sat Jan 25, 2020 10:13 am
Finally! At long last! Sane adults addressing the impeachment lunatics. About time.
After al the talk that Trump’s watching and wants an interesting show, his lawyers have been calmer than Schiff & Co.
They don't have to put on a show. They just have to show, point by point, that every charge that has been leveled is based on second or third hand opinion, supposition, contrary to established law and practices and/or taken out of context and completely overblown. And they should produce evidence the dems had but didn't show that will contradict their predetermined outcome. Like they did with the FISA court. They made a good start today. I think they will do even better next week, and I'll wager more Senators will stay awake for it. Even if everything they accused the president of was true, if it was one of them, they would censure, not impeach.
Still, when all is said and done, everything will proceed along party lines.
Your friendly neighborhood racist. On the waiting list to be a nazi. Designated an honorary 'snowflake'. Trolled by the very best, as well as by BJ. Always typical, unlike others.., Fulminator, Hopelessly in the tank for trump... inappropriate... Flocking himself... Probably a tucking sexist, too... All thought comes from the right wing noise machine(TM)... A clear and present threat to The Future Of Our Democracy.. Doesn't understand anything... Made the trump apologist and enabler playoffs... Heathen bastard

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Re: Joseph Ellis on Impeachment

#19 Post by silverscreenselect » Sun Jan 26, 2020 8:44 am

flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Sat Jan 25, 2020 1:41 pm
They just have to show, point by point, that every charge that has been leveled is based on second or third hand opinion, supposition, contrary to established law and practices and/or taken out of context and completely overblown.
As usual for Flock, a sentence that comes directly from the right-wing noise machine that is completely wrong on every account. And it seems based on one of your recent posts, that you're doing the same things you accuse the Democrats of. You pick up arguing points from stray social media posts who probably get them straight from the right wing websites ... or Russia.
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Re: Joseph Ellis on Impeachment

#20 Post by flockofseagulls104 » Sun Jan 26, 2020 12:36 pm

silverscreenselect wrote:
Sun Jan 26, 2020 8:44 am
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Sat Jan 25, 2020 1:41 pm
They just have to show, point by point, that every charge that has been leveled is based on second or third hand opinion, supposition, contrary to established law and practices and/or taken out of context and completely overblown.
As usual for Flock, a sentence that comes directly from the right-wing noise machine that is completely wrong on every account. And it seems based on one of your recent posts, that you're doing the same things you accuse the Democrats of. You pick up arguing points from stray social media posts who probably get them straight from the right wing websites ... or Russia.
No it doesn't. You, as usual, are just fulla.
Your friendly neighborhood racist. On the waiting list to be a nazi. Designated an honorary 'snowflake'. Trolled by the very best, as well as by BJ. Always typical, unlike others.., Fulminator, Hopelessly in the tank for trump... inappropriate... Flocking himself... Probably a tucking sexist, too... All thought comes from the right wing noise machine(TM)... A clear and present threat to The Future Of Our Democracy.. Doesn't understand anything... Made the trump apologist and enabler playoffs... Heathen bastard

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Re: Joseph Ellis on Impeachment

#21 Post by silverscreenselect » Tue Jan 28, 2020 2:11 pm

Iowa Senator Joni Ernst 1-27-20 wrote:Iowa caucuses are this next Monday evening. And I'm really interested to see how this discussion today informs and influences the Iowa caucus voters, those Democratic caucus goers. Will they be supporting VP Biden at this point?
That's all that the Republican "defense" of Trump is about. Trying to find another way to smear Joe Biden with more of these wild rumors and conspiracy theories that have never had a shred of evidence to back them up.
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Re: Joseph Ellis on Impeachment

#22 Post by flockofseagulls104 » Tue Jan 28, 2020 5:14 pm

silverscreenselect wrote:
Tue Jan 28, 2020 2:11 pm
Iowa Senator Joni Ernst 1-27-20 wrote:Iowa caucuses are this next Monday evening. And I'm really interested to see how this discussion today informs and influences the Iowa caucus voters, those Democratic caucus goers. Will they be supporting VP Biden at this point?
That's all that the Republican "defense" of Trump is about. Trying to find another way to smear Joe Biden with more of these wild rumors and conspiracy theories that have never had a shred of evidence to back them up.
You apparently didn't watch a minute of it. Why would you need to?
Your friendly neighborhood racist. On the waiting list to be a nazi. Designated an honorary 'snowflake'. Trolled by the very best, as well as by BJ. Always typical, unlike others.., Fulminator, Hopelessly in the tank for trump... inappropriate... Flocking himself... Probably a tucking sexist, too... All thought comes from the right wing noise machine(TM)... A clear and present threat to The Future Of Our Democracy.. Doesn't understand anything... Made the trump apologist and enabler playoffs... Heathen bastard

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Re: Joseph Ellis on Impeachment

#23 Post by silverscreenselect » Wed Jan 29, 2020 2:52 pm

Alan Dershowitz 1/30/20 wrote:If a president does something which he believes will help him get elected in the public interest, that cannot be the kind of quid pro quo that results in impeachment.
So, presumably if a President authorizes a break-in at Democratic National Headquarters to illegally tap the phones, that's not impeachable. If only Richard Nixon had Dershowitz on his defense team, he'd still be President today.
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Re: Joseph Ellis on Impeachment

#24 Post by flockofseagulls104 » Wed Jan 29, 2020 3:43 pm

silverscreenselect wrote:
Wed Jan 29, 2020 2:52 pm
Alan Dershowitz 1/30/20 wrote:If a president does something which he believes will help him get elected in the public interest, that cannot be the kind of quid pro quo that results in impeachment.
So, presumably if a President authorizes a break-in at Democratic National Headquarters to illegally tap the phones, that's not impeachable. If only Richard Nixon had Dershowitz on his defense team, he'd still be President today.
Is that what they told you he said on MS-LSD? He said a lot more than that, but I realize it's difficult for you to pay attention for more than 1 minute at a time. That's why you need MS-LSD, CNN, NBC, ABC, etc to summarize things for you in small bits, so it can fit in your brain in a box.

The defense raised a point that hits home right here. You and bobby have the same ability as the leaders of the house dems: You all seem to know without any doubts in YOUR minds everyone's else's motives and thoughts. And no amount of argument can shake your conclusions.
Is that a Super-Power?
Your friendly neighborhood racist. On the waiting list to be a nazi. Designated an honorary 'snowflake'. Trolled by the very best, as well as by BJ. Always typical, unlike others.., Fulminator, Hopelessly in the tank for trump... inappropriate... Flocking himself... Probably a tucking sexist, too... All thought comes from the right wing noise machine(TM)... A clear and present threat to The Future Of Our Democracy.. Doesn't understand anything... Made the trump apologist and enabler playoffs... Heathen bastard

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Re: Joseph Ellis on Impeachment

#25 Post by silverscreenselect » Wed Jan 29, 2020 5:05 pm

flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Wed Jan 29, 2020 3:43 pm
You all seem to know without any doubts in YOUR minds everyone's else's motives and thoughts.
Hate to burst your bubble flock, but I have no idea what your last thoughts were about since they made absolutely no sense and were certainly not germane to my post.
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