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Re: RIH Qasem Soleimani and Abu Mahdi al-Muhandis

Posted: Sun Jan 05, 2020 12:18 pm
by silverscreenselect
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 10:29 am
So you're in the pentagon now, huh? So trump chose the most extreme measure, huh? So this was done so the media would stop talking about impeachment, huh?
I tend to disagree with you. But thanks for your batphone report.
Trump has you so indoctrinated with his fake news meme that you automatically reject anything that's reported that doesn't comport with the way you'd like things to be. I tend to disagree with you. But thanks for your Hannity/Brietbart report.

Re: RIH Qasem Soleimani and Abu Mahdi al-Muhandis

Posted: Sun Jan 05, 2020 1:40 pm
by Bob78164
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 9:50 am
Bob, the fact is Obama DID send a shipment of cash to Iran, whether you agree with the reasons or not.
That's like saying then when you close your account at a bank, the bank sends a shipment of cash to you. It was always your money. The bank was just holding it.

That's exactly what we're talking about here. It was always Iran's money. We were just refusing to release it. The Obama Administration successfully used the freeze as leverage to get a deal with Iran that, until Donny blew it up, was successfully blunting Iran's nuclear ambitions.

If President Obama had made the decision to kill Soleimani, I'd have confidence that he'd thought through the consequences and was prepared to deal with them. No one can possibly have any genuine confidence that Donny thought through a damn thing or is prepared to deal with the new strategic landscape he has just created. Russia, on the other hand, most certainly has. --Bob

Re: RIH Qasem Soleimani and Abu Mahdi al-Muhandis

Posted: Sun Jan 05, 2020 5:22 pm
by silverscreenselect
jarnon wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 11:05 am
The Iraqi parliament is voting to disinvite U.S. troops from Iraq. The Iraqi Shi'ites, the largest ethnic group is now firmly pro-Iran. There are 5,000 Americans soldiers in Iraq now, preventing a resurgence of Daesh. The semi-independent Kurds in northern Iraq may let some stay there, if Trump makes nice to them after abandoning their brethren in Syria. Otherwise the troops will have to relocate to Turkey or Kuwait.
Iran has also announced it is withdrawing from the nuclear deal that technically remained in place even though the US pulled out a couple of years ago. Frankly, that deal was probably dead the minute the US pulled out, but this is the final formality. So, Trump accomplishes another "goal" of completely dismantling another Obama accomplishment with nothing to show in its place other than empty words and a dead general.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/wor ... 819114001/

And by the way, Trump's threat to attack cultural sites in Iran, if carried out, would be a war crime under the Geneva Convention and the US military's own guidelines. It would be the equivalent of Iranians destroying the Statue of Liberty or Mount Rushmore.

Re: RIH Qasem Soleimani and Abu Mahdi al-Muhandis

Posted: Sun Jan 05, 2020 5:53 pm
by Spock
SSS>>>"And by the way, Trump's threat to attack cultural sites in Iran, if carried out, would be a war crime under the Geneva Convention and the US military's own guidelines. It would be the equivalent of Iranians destroying the Statue of Liberty or Mount Rushmore."<<<

The Iranians don't have to take down our statues-we are doing pretty well on that front ourselves.

We have moved way past Confederate statues and are now working on Lewis and Clark and Sacajawea statues.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/ch ... story.html

Hmm, 2 slaveholders on Mount Rushmore. I wager that it is just a matter of time until that becomes a target.

Re: RIH Qasem Soleimani and Abu Mahdi al-Muhandis

Posted: Sun Jan 05, 2020 7:17 pm
by silverscreenselect
Spock wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 5:53 pm
SSS>>>"And by the way, Trump's threat to attack cultural sites in Iran, if carried out, would be a war crime under the Geneva Convention and the US military's own guidelines. It would be the equivalent of Iranians destroying the Statue of Liberty or Mount Rushmore."<<<

The Iranians don't have to take down our statues-we are doing pretty well on that front ourselves.

We have moved way past Confederate statues and are now working on Lewis and Clark and Sacajawea statues.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/ch ... story.html

Hmm, 2 slaveholders on Mount Rushmore. I wager that it is just a matter of time until that becomes a target.
Those protesting the statue (and it's one statue, not two or three as you imply by the use of the plural) aren't objecting to commemorating those three but how they are depicted in the statue, with a servile Sacajawea kneeling behind the two white explorers. This type of racially biased view of history was widespread and non-objectionable in 1919, when the statue was first erected, but so were blackface lawn jockeys. The statue had to be moved in any event for road construction. It looks like the statue will be moved to a Lewis and Clark museum, where it can be placed in its proper perspective.

Re: RIH Qasem Soleimani and Abu Mahdi al-Muhandis

Posted: Mon Jan 06, 2020 8:03 am
by flockofseagulls104
That's exactly what we're talking about here. It was always Iran's money. We were just refusing to release it.
It was Iran's money. The Iran that no longer existed when the Ayatollahs took over. A very stupid decision, giving billions of the taxpayer's money to a regime that is dedicated to our destruction. And unilaterally, without any advice or consent. I guess it made us safer because of their change of heart after they got the money and the 'treaty' (again, unilateral, with out any advice or consent). If it was a real treaty, trump couldn't have revoked it. But Obama did things with his phone and his pen. We didn't hear you talking about a dictator back then, did we? We didn't hear much talk about abuse of power. I did point out the dangerous precedent Obama was making. But it was your guy, so it's OK with you.

Re: RIH Qasem Soleimani and Abu Mahdi al-Muhandis

Posted: Mon Jan 06, 2020 8:39 am
by Bob Juch
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 9:50 am
Bob78164 wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 2:27 am
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Sat Jan 04, 2020 9:52 pm


Well, apparently the target was exactly where and when they expected him to be. They got their target and avoided any aspirin factories. Pretty rock solid to me. Are you implying they really wanted to strike an aspirin factory and got Soleimani instead? What is the batphone point you are trying to make?
You should not be pointing any fingers about credulity. You would blame a rainy day on trump and go on to say it's the worst rainy day in world history.
I thought you might have been referring to the Administration's claims that the guy was an imminent threat.

But since you keep repeating the bullshit claim (or should I say, Foxphone claim) that the Obama gave Iran billions of dollars, it's quite clear that you really don't care about objective reality. Just your own preconceptions and whatever propaganda supports them. --Bob
Bob, the fact is Obama DID send a shipment of cash to Iran, whether you agree with the reasons or not. He unilaterally negotiated a 'deal' with Iran which was never sent to congress for approval as a treaty. And STILL Iran's leaders called for death to America and the destruction of Israel and continued its sponsership of worldwide terrorism. Those, bob, are the facts.
Both Iran and North Korea could have both peace and prosperity if they want very easily by their leadership deciding they want peace and prosperity. But they don't. That is not anyone's fault but their own. It is not Trump's fault or the fault of the US.
That is the point I was making. And that is why it is futile to argue with you or any leftist. You can't focus.
You do realize that we gave Iran their own money, right?

Re: RIH Qasem Soleimani and Abu Mahdi al-Muhandis

Posted: Mon Jan 06, 2020 8:51 am
by silverscreenselect
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 8:03 am
That's exactly what we're talking about here. It was always Iran's money. We were just refusing to release it.
It was Iran's money. The Iran that no longer existed when the Ayatollahs took over. A very stupid decision, giving billions of the taxpayer's money to a regime that is dedicated to our destruction. And unilaterally, without any advice or consent. I guess it made us safer because of their change of heart after they got the money and the 'treaty' (again, unilateral, with out any advice or consent). If it was a real treaty, trump couldn't have revoked it.
Regardless of what you want to call the agreement with Iran, it was working and we were relatively at peace with them. Now, we've got nothing in its place, Iraq wants us out, and we've got a higher tension level with Iran than in decades.

That's real progress.

Re: RIH Qasem Soleimani and Abu Mahdi al-Muhandis

Posted: Mon Jan 06, 2020 9:53 am
by Bob Juch
silverscreenselect wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 8:51 am
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 8:03 am
That's exactly what we're talking about here. It was always Iran's money. We were just refusing to release it.
It was Iran's money. The Iran that no longer existed when the Ayatollahs took over. A very stupid decision, giving billions of the taxpayer's money to a regime that is dedicated to our destruction. And unilaterally, without any advice or consent. I guess it made us safer because of their change of heart after they got the money and the 'treaty' (again, unilateral, with out any advice or consent). If it was a real treaty, trump couldn't have revoked it.
Regardless of what you want to call the agreement with Iran, it was working and we were relatively at peace with them. Now, we've got nothing in its place, Iraq wants us out, and we've got a higher tension level with Iran than in decades.

That's real progress.
Our intelligence says that Iran could have a nuclear weapon within months now.

Re: RIH Qasem Soleimani and Abu Mahdi al-Muhandis

Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 3:11 am
by jarnon
silverscreenselect wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 11:05 am
And by the way, Trump's threat to attack cultural sites in Iran, if carried out, would be a war crime under the Geneva Convention and the US military's own guidelines. It would be the equivalent of Iranians destroying the Statue of Liberty or Mount Rushmore.
In response to Trump’s threat to bomb 52 cultural sites, an Iranian official posted a link to an article listing Trump-owned properties around the world. We may be stronger military, but they got us beat in Twitter combat.

Re: RIH Qasem Soleimani and Abu Mahdi al-Muhandis

Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 8:49 am
by silverscreenselect
jarnon wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 3:11 am
silverscreenselect wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 11:05 am
And by the way, Trump's threat to attack cultural sites in Iran, if carried out, would be a war crime under the Geneva Convention and the US military's own guidelines. It would be the equivalent of Iranians destroying the Statue of Liberty or Mount Rushmore.
In response to Trump’s threat to bomb 52 cultural sites, an Iranian official posted a link to an article listing Trump-owned properties around the world. We may be stronger military, but they got us beat in Twitter combat.
If they bomb some of his golf courses, he might have to spend more time in the White House.

Re: RIH Qasem Soleimani and Abu Mahdi al-Muhandis

Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:07 am
by Bob78164
I'm still waiting for the admission from those who believed that Donny was telling the truth for once (when he claimed the guy was targeted because there was an imminent attack) that they were wrong. I expect I'll be waiting a very long time.

I guess it's not as bad as using a lie to get us involved in a full-blown war that has turned into our longest war ever. But it's sad to know we needed to rely on Iranian restraint to avoid that war. --Bob

Re: RIH Qasem Soleimani and Abu Mahdi al-Muhandis

Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:57 am
by silverscreenselect
Bob78164 wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:07 am
I'm still waiting for the admission from those who believed that Donny was telling the truth for once (when he claimed the guy was targeted because there was an imminent attack) that they were wrong. I expect I'll be waiting a very long time.

I guess it's not as bad as using a lie to get us involved in a full-blown war that has turned into our longest war ever. But it's sad to know we needed to rely on Iranian restraint to avoid that war. --Bob
Haven't you heard the latest? It really doesn't matter.
Donald Trump 1/14/20 wrote:The Fake News Media and their Democrat Partners are working hard to determine whether or not the future attack by terrorist Soleimani was “imminent” or not, & was my team in agreement. The answer to both is a strong YES., but it doesn’t really matter because of his horrible past!

Re: RIH Qasem Soleimani and Abu Mahdi al-Muhandis

Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:05 am
by flockofseagulls104
Bob78164 wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:07 am
I'm still waiting for the admission from those who believed that Donny was telling the truth for once (when he claimed the guy was targeted because there was an imminent attack) that they were wrong. I expect I'll be waiting a very long time.

I guess it's not as bad as using a lie to get us involved in a full-blown war that has turned into our longest war ever. But it's sad to know we needed to rely on Iranian restraint to avoid that war. --Bob
This "imminent" thing is a creation of the dems and the MSM. Whether he had plans in the works or not, he deserved what he got for the acts he already committed. Did we debate whether Osama Bin Laden had "imminent" plans to attack us when he was killed?
Why, bob, do you give the Iranian leaders a pass for all the atrocities they have commited, the wanton, indiscriminate murder of thousands of innocent people and the enslavement of their citizens and focus on trump taking the opportunity of ridding the world of one of it's worst terrorists? What is wrong with you?

Re: RIH Qasem Soleimani and Abu Mahdi al-Muhandis

Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:14 am
by silverscreenselect
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:05 am
Why, bob, do you give the Iranian leaders a pass for all the atrocities they have commited, the wanton, indiscriminate murder of thousands of innocent people and the enslavement of their citizens and focus on trump taking the opportunity of ridding the world of one of it's worst terrorists?
I'm not Bob, but I'll give my answer. We don't give the Iranians or Osama or anyone a pass for what they do. But we're supposed to be better. We're supposed to respect the rule of law and not engage in "well as long as what we do isn't quite as bad as what they did, then it's okay."

Soleimani was a general in the Iranian army. Osama bin Laden held no position and was recognized by no country. Under the rules of law and warfare that we are supposed to follow, Soleimani was not "fair game" because of what he did. Under your theory, the Iranians are fully justified in assassinating Trump or any of our generals.

You know who kills people because he doesn't like what they're saying or doing: Vladimir Putin. So does Kim Jung Un. They are Trump's role models.

Re: RIH Qasem Soleimani and Abu Mahdi al-Muhandis

Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:21 am
by flockofseagulls104
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:05 am
Bob78164 wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:07 am
I'm still waiting for the admission from those who believed that Donny was telling the truth for once (when he claimed the guy was targeted because there was an imminent attack) that they were wrong. I expect I'll be waiting a very long time.

I guess it's not as bad as using a lie to get us involved in a full-blown war that has turned into our longest war ever. But it's sad to know we needed to rely on Iranian restraint to avoid that war. --Bob
This "imminent" thing is a creation of the dems and the MSM. Whether he had plans in the works or not, he deserved what he got for the acts he already committed. Did we debate whether Osama Bin Laden had "imminent" plans to attack us when he was killed?
Why, bob, do you give the Iranian leaders a pass for all the atrocities they have commited, the wanton, indiscriminate murder of thousands of innocent people and the enslavement of their citizens and focus on trump taking the opportunity of ridding the world of one of it's worst terrorists? What is wrong with you?
I can remember back when the first 'suicide' or 'homicide' bombings took place and became common after 9/11. We were ALL appalled that anyone could devise something so inhuman. We debated whether people who sponsored or enabled these kinds of things should be given any consideration of basic human rights at all. How to change the laws so we could stop these things BEFORE they happened, rather than waiting for it to happen.
Now we accept this kind of barbarity as 'normal'. I don't. I never will. Iran's leaders use this kind of inhuman barbarity as a tool. So do Palestinian leaders. Any assessment of the legitimacy of either entities causes should take that into account.

Re: RIH Qasem Soleimani and Abu Mahdi al-Muhandis

Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:25 am
by flockofseagulls104
silverscreenselect wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:14 am
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:05 am
Why, bob, do you give the Iranian leaders a pass for all the atrocities they have commited, the wanton, indiscriminate murder of thousands of innocent people and the enslavement of their citizens and focus on trump taking the opportunity of ridding the world of one of it's worst terrorists?
I'm not Bob, but I'll give my answer. We don't give the Iranians or Osama or anyone a pass for what they do. But we're supposed to be better. We're supposed to respect the rule of law and not engage in "well as long as what we do isn't quite as bad as what they did, then it's okay."

Soleimani was a general in the Iranian army. Osama bin Laden held no position and was recognized by no country. Under the rules of law and warfare that we are supposed to follow, Soleimani was not "fair game" because of what he did. Under your theory, the Iranians are fully justified in assassinating Trump or any of our generals.

You know who kills people because he doesn't like what they're saying or doing: Vladimir Putin. So does Kim Jung Un. They are Trump's role models.
Soleimani did not follow the 'rules' of warfare, did he? Neither does the Iranian regime, do they?
What is wrong with you?

Re: RIH Qasem Soleimani and Abu Mahdi al-Muhandis

Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:55 am
by Spock
Funny how those questioning the intel of this strike, just blindly accepted the intel and rationale behind Obama's (AKA Droney McDroneface) 563 drone strikes.

For some reason, they were pretty quiet then. As extreme partisans, they were just blind partisan followers and implicitly accepted that the intel was perfect and that every one of Droney McDroneface's 563 drone strikes was perfect.

Re: RIH Qasem Soleimani and Abu Mahdi al-Muhandis

Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:01 pm
by silverscreenselect
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:21 am
Now we accept this kind of barbarity as 'normal'. I don't. I never will. Iran's leaders use this kind of inhuman barbarity as a tool. So do Palestinian leaders. Any assessment of the legitimacy of either entities causes should take that into account.
Flock, grow up.

This sort of barbarity has always been "normal" in that part of the world. The only thing that's changed is the technology that allows them to kill on a larger scale than before.

The United States and other Westernized nations adopted the Geneva convention and other rules of international law and warfare because we were presumably better than that. We have procedures in place to try people as war criminals. They don't always work. We also have laws to put away mob bosses. They don't always work either. But we don't go around executing them just because they're bad people.

Re: RIH Qasem Soleimani and Abu Mahdi al-Muhandis

Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:07 pm
by silverscreenselect
Spock wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:55 am
Funny how those questioning the intel of this strike, just blindly accepted the intel and rationale behind Obama's (AKA Droney McDroneface) 563 drone strikes.

For some reason, they were pretty quiet then. As extreme partisans, they were just blind partisan followers and implicitly accepted that the intel was perfect and that every one of Droney McDroneface's 563 drone strikes was perfect.
You mean like this:
Republicans hammered President Obama on Sunday for what they described as a retreat in the war against terrorism at a time when they said the world’s crises demand a more aggressive, vigilant posture from the United States.
In a speech Thursday at the National Defense University in Washington, Obama said he would narrow the use of drone attacks against suspected terrorists and seek to close the prison at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.), who serves on the Senate Armed Services Committee, said on Fox News on Sunday that he had “never been more worried about national security” and called the president “tone deaf” on the issue.
https://www.latimes.com/politics/la-xpm ... story.html

There was plenty of criticism of Obama's tactics and questionable assumptions in regard to the drone strikes. But it came from the sort of liberal publications and websites that I doubt are very high on your reading list.

Re: RIH Qasem Soleimani and Abu Mahdi al-Muhandis

Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:35 pm
by flockofseagulls104
But we don't go around executing them just because they're bad people.
Really? Did we bring in Osama for a 'war trial'? How about all those 'soldiers' Obama killed with drones.

Consider this: soldiers are a dime a dozen. You kill one, they're like doritos, the orchestrators can always find more. However, terrorists with connections, power and no moral restrictions who use and direct these soldiers are relatively rare. We took one out, and I'm glad for it. We need to take more of them out. The Geneva Conventions do not apply to terrorists, whether they connect themselves with a 'government' or not. They do not abide by it. We need to protect ourselves until there's an amendment to the Geneva accords that covers these human scum.

Re: RIH Qasem Soleimani and Abu Mahdi al-Muhandis

Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:02 pm
by Bob78164
All of this is beside the point. If Donny wanted to justify risking a war because he doesn't like what the guy has done, he should have said so in the first place. He didn't. Instead, he lied to the American people. On about the most serious matter that anyone in the Oval Office can possibly lie about. --Bob

Re: RIH Qasem Soleimani and Abu Mahdi al-Muhandis

Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 3:17 pm
by Bob Juch
Spock wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:55 am
Funny how those questioning the intel of this strike, just blindly accepted the intel and rationale behind Obama's (AKA Droney McDroneface) 563 drone strikes.

For some reason, they were pretty quiet then. As extreme partisans, they were just blind partisan followers and implicitly accepted that the intel was perfect and that every one of Droney McDroneface's 563 drone strikes was perfect.
There have been two to three times as many drone strikes under trump as under Obama.

Re: RIH Qasem Soleimani and Abu Mahdi al-Muhandis

Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 5:11 pm
by flockofseagulls104
Bob78164 wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:02 pm
All of this is beside the point. If Donny wanted to justify risking a war because he doesn't like what the guy has done, he should have said so in the first place. He didn't. Instead, he lied to the American people. On about the most serious matter that anyone in the Oval Office can possibly lie about. --Bob
Wait a minute! I thought lying about the ukraine phone call was that what you said.
I look at it the other way. It's the Iranians who already have a war going and if they don't want their generals killed, maybe they ought to stop doing things like attacking our embassies.

Re: RIH Qasem Soleimani and Abu Mahdi al-Muhandis

Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 5:14 pm
by flockofseagulls104
Bob Juch wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 3:17 pm
Spock wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:55 am
Funny how those questioning the intel of this strike, just blindly accepted the intel and rationale behind Obama's (AKA Droney McDroneface) 563 drone strikes.

For some reason, they were pretty quiet then. As extreme partisans, they were just blind partisan followers and implicitly accepted that the intel was perfect and that every one of Droney McDroneface's 563 drone strikes was perfect.
There have been two to three times as many drone strikes under trump as under Obama.
And? You didn't get your panties in a wad then.