About that "apology tour"

[Bob78164]

I'm pretty sure a number of people on this Bored had issues with what they called an "apology tour" by President Obama. It wasn't that, but that's not my current point.

Not one of those people has had a word to say about the craven capitulation Donny has shown to Turkey. A capitulation that has betrayed American allies who fought and died for our benefit. A capitulation that has starkly illustrated American impotence for the whole world to see. A capitulation that will cause untold damage to American credibility and to American foreign policy for years, possibly decades.

Yet not a word from the people who got their panties in a bunch about a so-called "apology tour" that actually enhanced our standing in the world. --Bob

[flockofseagulls104]

Apples and oranges, bobby. But what else are we to expect from you?

But as the situation unfolds, I do have concerns.

I understand the reasons trump gave for moving 50 or so soldiers out of the region. Were these 50 soldiers the only thing preventing Turkey from attacking the Kurds? Hard to believe, but I don't know.

However, I am concerned this 'cease fire' is worth about as much as they are with the palestinian militants. When it is over, what is going to happen in Kobane, which is a city of about 40,000 right across the border from Turkey, which is controlled by Syrian Kurds?

That is well within the buffer zone. They can't move their city.

I hope ongoing talks are happening, and that the administration convinces Turkey that it would be contrary to their best interests to attack that city. Pence did say he presented a lot of disincentives to turkey which helped negotiate this 150 hour cease fire. I understand wanting to protect 50 american soldiers. But if they are all that stand in the way of an all out attack on a kurdish city, I hope we have other contingency plans to protect the city. And I hope Pence made clear what we will do if they do attack.

We will see how it plays out.

[silverscreenselect]

I hope ongoing talks are happening, and that the administration convinces Turkey that it would be contrary to their best interests to attack that city.

And I hope that Santa Claus comes down my chimney this Christmas. Both of these are about equally likely to occur.

Trump has what he wants, something that he can proclaim to his bootlickers is a great victory. Got to keep hold of Flock and the rest of that 35%.

[Bob78164]

Apples and oranges, bobby. But what else are we to expect from you?

But as the situation unfolds, I do have concerns.

I understand the reasons trump gave for moving 50 or so soldiers out of the region. Were these 50 soldiers the only thing preventing Turkey from attacking the Kurds? Hard to believe, but I don't know.

However, I am concerned this 'cease fire' is worth about as much as they are with the palestinian militants. When it is over, what is going to happen in Kobane, which is a city of about 40,000 right across the border from Turkey, which is controlled by Syrian Kurds?

That is well within the buffer zone. They can't move their city.

I hope ongoing talks are happening, and that the administration convinces Turkey that it would be contrary to their best interests to attack that city. Pence did say he presented a lot of disincentives to turkey which helped negotiate this 150 hour cease fire. I understand wanting to protect 50 american soldiers. But if they are all that stand in the way of an all out attack on a kurdish city, I hope we have other contingency plans to protect the city. And I hope Pence made clear what we will do if they do attack.

We will see how it plays out.

You're way behind the times. The Turks immediately said it was a "pause," not a cease fire. And it's one that they've already ended. So once again, Donny gave away what little leverage we got via sanctions and in return got absolutely nothing, except to give the world yet another portrait of American impotence.

The damage is going to take decades, and the lives of numerous American soldiers (because we won't be able to find allies to step up), to fix.

And by the way, we had 1000 troops in Syria, not 50. What stood in the way of a Turkish attack on the area (aside from those soldiers) was American credibility and resolve. Which Erdogan tested, only to see it crumple like a wet sheet of paper. --Bob

[flockofseagulls104]

While I share some of your concerns, unlike democrats and liberals, I don't knee jerk based on what the 'news' reports say, and pontificate that whatever the new 'outrage' of the day will undermine the foundation of our democracy and take 'decades to fix'.

You guys overstep and go overboard on anything that has to do with trump. As to resolve, trump, though you may disagree with him, has more resolve in his pinkie than Obama did in his whole administration. Obama's actions allowed ISIS to grow past the junior varsity stage. Trump allowed his forces to decimate them, and I doubt he will stand by and let them regroup. Trump believes China has taken advantage of us for decades because of poor trade deals made by people who were concerned with 'enhancing our standing' in the world. Trump wants them to stop taking advantage of us, and has shown his resolve. And the democrat house is much more concerned with investigating anything and everything they can make a convoluted case for, than to act on the trade deal he worked out to replace NAFTA. I thought they could walk and chew gum at the same time.

Speaking of impotence, see the Obama administration for the textbook example. Search for 'red line'. I have no doubt that trump, if he's forced to use military force, will unleash it to it's fullest to accomplish the defined mission. But he is also very reluctant to put any american soldier in harms way for no good reason. You liberals should admire that, but you have tunnel vision inside your echo chamber.

I will wait to see what happens. It's not like pontificating on a board that has 20 or so people on it is going to change anything.

So bobby, your pontificating is boring and predictable.
And SSS, go lick your own boots. How many times can you use different words to make the same tired, irrelevant, childish point?

[silverscreenselect]

And SSS, go lick your own boots. How many times can you use different words to make the same tired, irrelevant, childish point?

As many times as you keep making the same moronic points.

And as Trump has demonstrated, he is all bluster but he has no backbone whatsoever. And he loves sucking up to autocrats. Putin, Kim Jong Un, and now Erdogan have figured him out.

[Bob Juch]

While I share some of your concerns, unlike democrats and liberals, I don't knee jerk based on what the 'news' reports say, and pontificate that whatever the new 'outrage' of the day will undermine the foundation of our democracy and take 'decades to fix'.

You guys overstep and go overboard on anything that has to do with trump. As to resolve, trump, though you may disagree with him, has more resolve in his pinkie than Obama did in his whole administration. Obama's actions allowed ISIS to grow past the junior varsity stage. Trump allowed his forces to decimate them, and I doubt he will stand by and let them regroup. Trump believes China has taken advantage of us for decades because of poor trade deals made by people who were concerned with 'enhancing our standing' in the world. Trump wants them to stop taking advantage of us, and has shown his resolve. And the democrat house is much more concerned with investigating anything and everything they can make a convoluted case for, than to act on the trade deal he worked out to replace NAFTA. I thought they could walk and chew gum at the same time.

Speaking of impotence, see the Obama administration for the textbook example. Search for 'red line'. I have no doubt that trump, if he's forced to use military force, will unleash it to it's fullest to accomplish the defined mission. But he is also very reluctant to put any american soldier in harms way for no good reason. You liberals should admire that, but you have tunnel vision inside your echo chamber.

I will wait to see what happens. It's not like pontificating on a board that has 20 or so people on it is going to change anything.

So bobby, your pontificating is boring and predictable.
And SSS, go lick your own boots. How many times can you use different words to make the same tired, irrelevant, childish point?

While you're waiting, people are dying.

[Beebs52]

My question is how can 1000 troops make a difference? I was wondering about that. Not like it was 20000 or whatever.

[Bob78164]

My question is how can 1000 troops make a difference? I was wondering about that. Not like it was 20000 or whatever.

Because Turkey would not have fired on American troops located in Syria. Doing so would have been an act of war against us. Until Donny pulled them out of the way and told Erdogan to walk right in and slaughter our allies if he felt like it. --Bob

[Beebs52]

My question is how can 1000 troops make a difference? I was wondering about that. Not like it was 20000 or whatever.

Because Turkey would not have fired on American troops located in Syria. Doing so would have been an act of war against us. Until Donny pulled them out of the way and told Erdogan to walk right in and slaughter our allies if he felt like it. --Bob

Says you?

[flockofseagulls104]

My question is how can 1000 troops make a difference? I was wondering about that. Not like it was 20000 or whatever.

Because Turkey would not have fired on American troops located in Syria. Doing so would have been an act of war against us. Until Donny pulled them out of the way and told Erdogan to walk right in and slaughter our allies if he felt like it. --Bob

Really, is that what he did? Did Mr. Schitt tell you that?
There were only 50 in northern Syria, btw.

[Bob78164]

My question is how can 1000 troops make a difference? I was wondering about that. Not like it was 20000 or whatever.

Because Turkey would not have fired on American troops located in Syria. Doing so would have been an act of war against us. Until Donny pulled them out of the way and told Erdogan to walk right in and slaughter our allies if he felt like it. --Bob

Says you?

Says pretty much everyone who was in the room. That's why they were so shocked when Donny went off script to crumple like wet paper as soon as Erdogan pushed.

Says their history of, you know, not attacking us because they didn't want to risk combat with us.

How can anyone possibly complain about President Obama's "apology tour" without recognizing that Donny's actions highlighted American impotence and irresolution for all the world to see? Either you want a strong America or you don't. --Bob

[Beebs52]

Because Turkey would not have fired on American troops located in Syria. Doing so would have been an act of war against us. Until Donny pulled them out of the way and told Erdogan to walk right in and slaughter our allies if he felt like it. --Bob

Says you?

Says pretty much everyone who was in the room. That's why they were so shocked when Donny went off script to crumple like wet paper as soon as Erdogan pushed.

Says their history of, you know, not attacking us because they didn't want to risk combat with us.

How can anyone possibly complain about President Obama's "apology tour" without recognizing that Donny's actions highlighted American impotence and irresolution for all the world to see? Either you want a strong America or you don't. --Bob

Oh please

[silverscreenselect]

There were only 50 in northern Syria, btw.

As usual, when Flock and Bob disagree on the facts, Flock is wrong.

About 1,000 troops will leave the area "as safely and quickly as possible," Defense Secretary Mark Esper told CBS' "Face the Nation" in an interview Sunday. President Donald Trump late Saturday signed off on the order, which would end most of the U.S. military's presence there, two U.S. military officials in the region told NBC News. Only around 300 soldiers would remain in the U.S. military's Al Tanf base in the south, the officials said.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/trum ... s-n1065516

And as part of our withdrawal, we had to bomb our own airbase to prevent munitions from falling into Turkish hands.

[Spock]

I'm pretty sure a number of people on this Bored had issues with what they called an "apology tour" by President Obama. It wasn't that, but that's not my current point.

Not one of those people has had a word to say about the craven capitulation Donny has shown to Turkey. A capitulation that has betrayed American allies who fought and died for our benefit. A capitulation that has starkly illustrated American impotence for the whole world to see. A capitulation that will cause untold damage to American credibility and to American foreign policy for years, possibly decades.

Yet not a word from the people who got their panties in a bunch about a so-called "apology tour" that actually enhanced our standing in the world. --Bob

I hope (but sincerely doubt) that you felt the same about those thousands of Iraqis who fought and died for us in Iraq when Obama left them in the lurch and,BTW, paving the way for ISIS when he withdrew from Iraq.

However, we all know that you did not spare one thought for those Iraqis that Obama left in the lurch a decade ago.

[Bob78164]

I'm pretty sure a number of people on this Bored had issues with what they called an "apology tour" by President Obama. It wasn't that, but that's not my current point.

Not one of those people has had a word to say about the craven capitulation Donny has shown to Turkey. A capitulation that has betrayed American allies who fought and died for our benefit. A capitulation that has starkly illustrated American impotence for the whole world to see. A capitulation that will cause untold damage to American credibility and to American foreign policy for years, possibly decades.

Yet not a word from the people who got their panties in a bunch about a so-called "apology tour" that actually enhanced our standing in the world. --Bob

I hope (but sincerely doubt) that you felt the same about those thousands of Iraqis who fought and died for us in Iraq when Obama left them in the lurch and,BTW, paving the way for ISIS when he withdrew from Iraq.

However, we all know that you did not spare one thought for those Iraqis that Obama left in the lurch a decade ago.

Here's the fact check. Unsurprisingly, the Republican propaganda points are largely false. It was President Bush 43 who agreed in 2008 to withdraw troops from Iraq by 2011, and after that point we had no right to stay there without the consent of the Iraqi Parliament, which wasn't going to happen.

And unlike the abrupt abandonment of the Kurds, our withdrawal from Iraq was planned and known to everyone involved for a period of three years. --Bob

[Spock]

I'm pretty sure a number of people on this Bored had issues with what they called an "apology tour" by President Obama. It wasn't that, but that's not my current point.

Not one of those people has had a word to say about the craven capitulation Donny has shown to Turkey. A capitulation that has betrayed American allies who fought and died for our benefit. A capitulation that has starkly illustrated American impotence for the whole world to see. A capitulation that will cause untold damage to American credibility and to American foreign policy for years, possibly decades.

Yet not a word from the people who got their panties in a bunch about a so-called "apology tour" that actually enhanced our standing in the world. --Bob

I hope (but sincerely doubt) that you felt the same about those thousands of Iraqis who fought and died for us in Iraq when Obama left them in the lurch and,BTW, paving the way for ISIS when he withdrew from Iraq.

However, we all know that you did not spare one thought for those Iraqis that Obama left in the lurch a decade ago.

Here's the fact check. Unsurprisingly, the Republican propaganda points are largely false. It was President Bush 43 who agreed in 2008 to withdraw troops from Iraq by 2011, and after that point we had no right to stay there without the consent of the Iraqi Parliament, which wasn't going to happen.

And unlike the abrupt abandonment of the Kurds, our withdrawal from Iraq was planned and known to everyone involved for a period of three years. --Bob

Simply put, I am having a bit of a chuckle at the whole "We Have Always Been at War with Eastasia" aspect of the opposition to Trump on this.

[silverscreenselect]

Simply put, I am having a bit of a chuckle at the whole "We Have Always Been at War with Eastasia" aspect of the opposition to Trump on this.

You can argue that we never should have had troops in Syria in the first place. But once there, and once we committed to an ally, you don't just cut and run on them so fast that you have to bomb your own airbase to keep the Turks from getting the munitions.

It may take a lot more than the election of a Democratic president next year to restore world faith in us. Other countries could rightfully fear that the next administration could on a whim abandon any commitments an earlier one might make.

Trump's move was so idiotic that even that craven Moscow-lover Mitch McConnell criticized it.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/18/politics ... index.html

[flockofseagulls104]

I have to agree with the trump haters on this one, based on what I know now. Unlike them, I know enough to know that I dont know what I don't know. I think withdrawing was a bad strategic move. But any blood is on Erdogan's hands.

[Bob Juch]

I have to agree with the trump haters on this one, based on what I know now. Unlike them, I know enough to know that I dont know what I don't know. I think withdrawing was a bad strategic move. But any blood is on Erdogan's hands.

Blood is also on our weak president's hands as well as his top man, Putin.

[silverscreenselect]

But any blood is on Erdogan's hands.

That's like saying if an owner takes a tiger to a flea market and the tiger mauls someone posing for a picture next to it that it's the tiger's fault (and I do have some personal knowledge of this one).

[flockofseagulls104]

I have to agree with the trump haters on this one, based on what I know now. Unlike them, I know enough to know that I dont know what I don't know. I think withdrawing was a bad strategic move. But any blood is on Erdogan's hands.

Blood is also on our weak president's hands as well as his top man, Putin.

You can't even get your propaganda right. I thought putin was running trump.

[Bob Juch]

I have to agree with the trump haters on this one, based on what I know now. Unlike them, I know enough to know that I dont know what I don't know. I think withdrawing was a bad strategic move. But any blood is on Erdogan's hands.

Blood is also on our weak president's hands as well as his top man, Putin.

You can't even get your propaganda right. I thought putin was running trump.

He is. Putin's on top, trump's on the bottom.

[flockofseagulls104]

Blood is also on our weak president's hands as well as his top man, Putin.

You can't even get your propaganda right. I thought putin was running trump.

He is. Putin's on top, trump's on the bottom.

Ok, so where do Tulsi Gabbard and Jill Stein fit in? Can you post an organization chart for the russian agents in our country? It's getting pretty confusing.

[jarnon]

A bit of hopeful news: Besides Pompeo and Pence in Turkey, officials including Esper and Pelosi (in mourning for her brother BTW) visited Israel, Jordan, Afghanistan and Saudi Arabia to mend relations.