Mueller files witness tampering indictments

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Bob Juch
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Mueller files witness tampering indictments

#1 Post by Bob Juch » Fri Jun 08, 2018 12:45 pm

Special counsel Robert Mueller files witness tampering indictment against Paul Manafort and Russian citizen Konstantin Kilimnik.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/06/08/special ... -news.html
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Re: Mueller files witness tampering indictments

#2 Post by BackInTex » Fri Jun 08, 2018 1:45 pm

Indictment Scorecard


Indictments for crimes committed prior to the 2016 campaigns: 1

Indictments for crimes committed as a result of the Special Counsel's investigation: 5

Indictments for crimes uncovered but not targeted by the Special Counsel: 16 Russians, 1 American for identity theft (may include the indictment for company that doesn't exist)

Indictments for crimes for which the Special Counsel was established to investigate: 0
In the end, they will all pretty much taste the same.

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Re: Mueller files witness tampering indictments

#3 Post by silverscreenselect » Fri Jun 08, 2018 1:48 pm

BackInTex wrote:Indictment Scorecard


Indictments for crimes committed prior to the 2016 campaigns: 1

Indictments for crimes committed as a result of the Special Counsel's investigation: 5

Indictments for crimes uncovered but not targeted by the Special Counsel: 16 Russians, 1 American for identity theft (may include the indictment for company that doesn't exist)

Indictments for crimes for which the Special Counsel was established to investigate: 0
Note to self:

Remember where this scorecard is so I can update it in a couple of weeks.
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Re: Mueller files witness tampering indictments

#4 Post by BackInTex » Fri Jun 08, 2018 1:51 pm

silverscreenselect wrote:
Note to self:

Remember where this scorecard is so I can update it in a couple of weeks.
Do you still have your year-old similar notes? If there was something on Trump, Barney Fife could have found it by now.
In the end, they will all pretty much taste the same.

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Re: Mueller files witness tampering indictments

#5 Post by Bob78164 » Fri Jun 08, 2018 1:57 pm

BackInTex wrote:
silverscreenselect wrote:
Note to self:

Remember where this scorecard is so I can update it in a couple of weeks.
Do you still have your year-old similar notes? If there was something on Trump, Barney Fife could have found it by now.
How long did Kenneth Starr investigate Whitewater before discovering Monica Lewinsky? And remind me if you would what she had to do with Whitewater?

The Special Counsel was deliberately given "wherever the facts may lead you" authority. Everything he's done is well within his authority. --Bob
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." Thomas Jefferson

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Re: Mueller files witness tampering indictments

#6 Post by silverscreenselect » Fri Jun 08, 2018 2:18 pm

BackInTex wrote:
silverscreenselect wrote:
Note to self:

Remember where this scorecard is so I can update it in a couple of weeks.
Do you still have your year-old similar notes? If there was something on Trump, Barney Fife could have found it by now.
You mistake Mueller for Devin Nunes and the rest of Trump's lackeys who seize on any tidbit of information they can find and breathlessly announce that it's the key to unraveling the Deep State conspiracy. Knowing what the stakes are in this investigation, Mueller is smart to develop as solid a case as he can (and bring as many witnesses into the fold as possible) before blowing the lid off it. What's happened in Manafort's case is instructive. Every time Manafort's attorneys have brought up some legal maneuver, Mueller has been thoroughly prepared (in fact most of what has actually come out of his team has come in sworn court pleadings). Further, every time some story breaks like the revelations about Michael Cohen, there's usually a paragraph in the story that the key players were interviewed by Mueller's investigators. In other words, Mueller is aware of everything that comes out so far, so there is every reason to believe, unless you are drowning in orange KoolAid, that he knows a lot more that he hasn't made public.

Further, this investigation isn't just into Trump. It's into the Trump campaign. Nixon was never indicted at Watergate. What will you say if "only" Trump Jr., Kushner, Cohen, Bannon and ten or twenty more close Trump advisers wind up as bunkmates at Club Fed for the next decade or so?

Think about how long after Watergate before the big guns like Haldeman and Ehrlichman were indicted. The breakin occurred June 17, 1972. Haldeman, Ehrlichman et al were indicted March 1, 1974. 20 months later.
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Re: Mueller files witness tampering indictments

#7 Post by BackInTex » Fri Jun 08, 2018 2:52 pm

Bob78164 wrote: The Special Counsel was deliberately given "wherever the facts may lead you" authority. Everything he's done is well within his authority. --Bob
Have I said he's gone outside his authority? No.

Trump has not gone outside his authority either.
In the end, they will all pretty much taste the same.

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Re: Mueller files witness tampering indictments

#8 Post by jarnon » Tue Jan 08, 2019 3:06 pm

A document by Manafort's lawyers confirms that Manafort shared election polling data with Kilimnik.

Mueller Suspects Manafort Gave 2016 Polling Data to Russian

They say Manafort didn't lie about his contact with Kilimnik; he just forgot. But they don't deny it happened. That's collusion.

Most of the juicy parts of the document are redacted, but that sentence wasn't redacted properly so it could still be deciphered.

BTW, I think Kilimnik is actually Ukranian, but he does have ties to Russian intelligence.

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Re: Mueller files witness tampering indictments

#9 Post by flockofseagulls104 » Tue Jan 08, 2019 3:23 pm

jarnon wrote:A document by Manafort's lawyers confirms that Manafort shared election polling data with Kilimnik.

Mueller Suspects Manafort Gave 2016 Polling Data to Russian

They say Manafort didn't lie about his contact with Kilimnik; he just forgot. But they don't deny it happened. That's collusion.

Most of the juicy parts of the document are redacted, but that sentence wasn't redacted properly so it could still be deciphered.

BTW, I think Kilimnik is actually Ukranian, but he does have ties to Russian intelligence.

OMG! He shared polling data with a russian????? Was it one of those polls that guaranteed a Clinton win? If the russian wanted polling data, he could just have watched CNN. Polls are hard news to them.
CNN shared their polling data with the 7 people that watch it. Is that collusion, too?
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Re: Mueller files witness tampering indictments

#10 Post by silverscreenselect » Tue Jan 08, 2019 3:39 pm

flockofseagulls104 wrote: OMG! He shared polling data with a russian????? Was it one of those polls that guaranteed a Clinton win? If the russian wanted polling data, he could just have watched CNN. Polls are hard news to them.
CNN shared their polling data with the 7 people that watch it. Is that collusion, too?
Flock, you do realize that there is a lot of polling data that doesn't show up in what gets released to the public. This information could be very helpful in determining how and where to target disinformation campaigns.
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Re: Mueller files witness tampering indictments

#11 Post by Bob78164 » Tue Jan 08, 2019 3:56 pm

flockofseagulls104 wrote:
jarnon wrote:A document by Manafort's lawyers confirms that Manafort shared election polling data with Kilimnik.

Mueller Suspects Manafort Gave 2016 Polling Data to Russian

They say Manafort didn't lie about his contact with Kilimnik; he just forgot. But they don't deny it happened. That's collusion.

Most of the juicy parts of the document are redacted, but that sentence wasn't redacted properly so it could still be deciphered.

BTW, I think Kilimnik is actually Ukranian, but he does have ties to Russian intelligence.

OMG! He shared polling data with a russian????? Was it one of those polls that guaranteed a Clinton win? If the russian wanted polling data, he could just have watched CNN. Polls are hard news to them.
CNN shared their polling data with the 7 people that watch it. Is that collusion, too?
I've gotta hand it to you. I thought you'd refuse to admit collusion unless you saw a confession or a smoking-gun video tape.

You've proved me wrong. Even a confession isn't good enough for you. --Bob
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." Thomas Jefferson

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Re: Mueller files witness tampering indictments

#12 Post by silverscreenselect » Tue Jan 08, 2019 4:38 pm

Bob78164 wrote: You've proved me wrong. Even a confession isn't good enough for you. --Bob
In fairness, Manafort claims that his disclosures were inadvertent.
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Re: Mueller files witness tampering indictments

#13 Post by Bob78164 » Tue Jan 08, 2019 4:56 pm

silverscreenselect wrote:
Bob78164 wrote: You've proved me wrong. Even a confession isn't good enough for you. --Bob
In fairness, Manafort claims that his disclosures were inadvertent.
I think what he claims was inadvertent was not giving truthful answers to Mueller about the disclosures. --Bob
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." Thomas Jefferson

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Re: Mueller files witness tampering indictments

#14 Post by flockofseagulls104 » Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:30 pm

silverscreenselect wrote:
flockofseagulls104 wrote: OMG! He shared polling data with a russian????? Was it one of those polls that guaranteed a Clinton win? If the russian wanted polling data, he could just have watched CNN. Polls are hard news to them.
CNN shared their polling data with the 7 people that watch it. Is that collusion, too?
Flock, you do realize that there is a lot of polling data that doesn't show up in what gets released to the public. This information could be very helpful in determining how and where to target disinformation campaigns.
Oh, dear! And a lot of polling data showed that Hillary is our president right now. You think if the russians wanted it, they couldn't buy it on their own? If you wanted it and had enough money you could buy it, too. You think Manafort and Manafort only had this magical data that the russians had to have to set forth their diabolical scheme? You don't think they could commission one on their own? Or is it now a crime to ask people questions?

You guys are sooo over-reaching. You have no common sense.
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Re: Mueller files witness tampering indictments

#15 Post by silverscreenselect » Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:23 pm

flockofseagulls104 wrote: You think Manafort and Manafort only had this magical data that the russians had to have to set forth their diabolical scheme? You don't think they could commission one on their own? Or is it now a crime to ask people questions?
Yes, this was private campaign data shared with the Russians. The word "private" means that it was not available to the general public. A lot of that information has to do with what questions were asked, how they were asked and who they were asked of. A lot of times campaigns poll about how the public might react to certain campaign strategies they are contemplating. This is highly confidential information normally and it was shared with a foreign government for the purpose of influencing an election.

The only people who don't think there's a problem with what Manafort did are you, Trump, and Manafort himself.
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Re: Mueller files witness tampering indictments

#16 Post by flockofseagulls104 » Wed Jan 09, 2019 7:41 am

silverscreenselect wrote:
flockofseagulls104 wrote: You think Manafort and Manafort only had this magical data that the russians had to have to set forth their diabolical scheme? You don't think they could commission one on their own? Or is it now a crime to ask people questions?
Yes, this was private campaign data shared with the Russians. The word "private" means that it was not available to the general public. A lot of that information has to do with what questions were asked, how they were asked and who they were asked of. A lot of times campaigns poll about how the public might react to certain campaign strategies they are contemplating. This is highly confidential information normally and it was shared with a foreign government for the purpose of influencing an election.

The only people who don't think there's a problem with what Manafort did are you, Trump, and Manafort himself.
There's another guy in Sandusky, Ohio.
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Re: Mueller files witness tampering indictments

#17 Post by jarnon » Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:51 am

Manafort was sentenced to 4 years by a federal judge in Virginia and another 3½ years by a federal judge in Washington, D.C. He's almost 70 and in poor health.

See you! I wouldn't want to be you!

P.S. The New York City D.A. just indicted Manafort for mortgage fraud. (What about illegal wildlife trade for the ostrich coat?)

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Re: Mueller files witness tampering indictments

#18 Post by silverscreenselect » Wed Mar 13, 2019 6:50 pm

jarnon wrote:Manafort was sentenced to 4 years by a federal judge in Virginia and another 3½ years by a federal judge in Washington, D.C. He's almost 70 and in poor health.

See you! I wouldn't want to be you!

P.S. The New York City D.A. just indicted Manafort for mortgage fraud. (What about illegal wildlife trade for the ostrich coat?)
Or, as Flock labels today's events: Fake news and proof of liberal media bias.
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Re: Mueller files witness tampering indictments

#19 Post by jarnon » Wed Jun 05, 2019 11:43 am

jarnon wrote:P.S. The New York City D.A. just indicted Manafort for mortgage fraud. (What about illegal wildlife trade for the ostrich coat?)
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez wrote:Paul Manafort is being sent to solitary confinement in my district - Rikers Island.

A prison sentence is not a license for gov torture and human rights violations. That‘s what solitary confinement is.

Manafort should be released, along with all people being held in solitary.
It’s early in the month so I can still access the cited article. Manafort’s solitary isn’t “the hole” shown in movies.
NY Times wrote:High-profile inmates are generally held in protective custody on Rikers Island, a network of nine jails with a total of 7,500 inmates, including pretrial detainees and convicts serving sentences of a year or less. Inmates in protective custody are isolated from the general population under heavy guard.

A law-enforcement official familiar with the correction department’s practices, speaking on the condition of anonymity to discuss security measures, said Mr. Manafort would most likely be housed in a former prison hospital on the island. That is where most high-profile detainees are held, including police officers, those accused of killing police officers, politicians and celebrities.
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez wrote:Sorry, but if people aren’t willing to apply principles evenly, no matter the person, then they aren’t fighting for criminal justice reform.

People acting as though this is summer camp. It’s Rikers, widely known for abuse. #AbolishSolitary

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Re: Mueller files witness tampering indictments

#20 Post by Bob Juch » Wed Jun 05, 2019 1:33 pm

jarnon wrote:
jarnon wrote:P.S. The New York City D.A. just indicted Manafort for mortgage fraud. (What about illegal wildlife trade for the ostrich coat?)
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez wrote:Paul Manafort is being sent to solitary confinement in my district - Rikers Island.

A prison sentence is not a license for gov torture and human rights violations. That‘s what solitary confinement is.

Manafort should be released, along with all people being held in solitary.
It’s early in the month so I can still access the cited article. Manafort’s solitary isn’t “the hole” shown in movies.
NY Times wrote:High-profile inmates are generally held in protective custody on Rikers Island, a network of nine jails with a total of 7,500 inmates, including pretrial detainees and convicts serving sentences of a year or less. Inmates in protective custody are isolated from the general population under heavy guard.

A law-enforcement official familiar with the correction department’s practices, speaking on the condition of anonymity to discuss security measures, said Mr. Manafort would most likely be housed in a former prison hospital on the island. That is where most high-profile detainees are held, including police officers, those accused of killing police officers, politicians and celebrities.
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez wrote:Sorry, but if people aren’t willing to apply principles evenly, no matter the person, then they aren’t fighting for criminal justice reform.

People acting as though this is summer camp. It’s Rikers, widely known for abuse. #AbolishSolitary
"including police officers, those accused of killing police officers" Brilliant idea.
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Re: Mueller files witness tampering indictments

#21 Post by jarnon » Mon Jun 17, 2019 9:33 pm

At the request of Manafort's lawyer, the Justice Dept. will let him be locked up in a Federal jail in Manhattan, rather than Rikers, while he's on trial in New York.

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Re: Mueller files witness tampering indictments

#22 Post by BackInTex » Tue Jun 18, 2019 7:53 am

silverscreenselect wrote:
BackInTex wrote:Indictment Scorecard


Indictments for crimes committed prior to the 2016 campaigns: 1

Indictments for crimes committed as a result of the Special Counsel's investigation: 5

Indictments for crimes uncovered but not targeted by the Special Counsel: 16 Russians, 1 American for identity theft (may include the indictment for company that doesn't exist)

Indictments for crimes for which the Special Counsel was established to investigate: 0
Note to self:

Remember where this scorecard is so I can update it in a couple of weeks.

Looks like SSS lost his notes so I’m bringing forward his reminder. Score hasn’t changed much. Still a shutout, not a couple of weeks later but 53 weeks later.
In the end, they will all pretty much taste the same.

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