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BackInTex
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Re: The Harvey List

#501 Post by BackInTex » Tue Feb 05, 2019 9:51 pm

Bob78164 wrote:
Bob78164 wrote: So when you compare my sister, or anyone else who had to face this heartbreaking tragedy, to Josef Mengele, you can go fuck yourself. --Bob
BackInTex wrote:Well, its a good thing I didn't then isn't it?
Like hell you didn't. Governor Northam described exactly the decision my sister, her husband, and her doctor had to face, and you compared him to Josef Mengele for articulating that decision. --Bob
I used Mengele as a counter to SSS's comment about Northam's knowledge, to show that that knowledge is not necessarily relevant in moral decisions. One of the things in the proposed VA bill was to eliminate the requirement for consensus among multiple (three) doctors for late term abortions. That would allow a Mengele to make unilateral decisions that otherwise would not be (hopefully) made with separate sets of eyes.

It had nothing to do with what your sister went through. The VA legislation would allow for the denial of life support for babies born with Down's Syndrome, cleft palates, or any number of defects that are not life threatening but simply undesirable.
In the end, they will all pretty much taste the same.

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Re: The Harvey List

#502 Post by silverscreenselect » Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:07 pm

BackInTex wrote: One of the things in the proposed VA bill was to eliminate the requirement for consensus among multiple (three) doctors for late term abortions.
That's just another obstacle thrown in to make it as difficult as possible for women to get an abortion.
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Re: The Harvey List

#503 Post by Bob78164 » Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:10 pm

BackInTex wrote:The VA legislation would allow for the denial of life support for babies born with Down's Syndrome, cleft palates, or any number of defects that are not life threatening but simply undesirable.
Bullshit. --Bob
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." Thomas Jefferson

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Re: The Harvey List

#504 Post by jarnon » Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:42 pm

flockofseagulls104 wrote:
jarnon wrote:Virginia Lt. Governor (and likely new Governor) Justin Fairfax

Virginia Lt. Gov: Sexual assault allegation is a 'totally fabricated story out of the blue'
"Fairfax and the woman told different versions of what happened in the hotel room with no one else present. The Washington Post could not find anyone who could corroborate either version."


So what? It was fine for Kavanaugh....
This is what the Washington Post reports that Fairfax is accused of. It was readable at the beginning of the month before the paywall slammed shut.
Spoiler
The woman described a sexual encounter that began with consensual kissing and ended with a forced act that left her crying and shaken. She said Fairfax guided her to the bed, where they continued kissing, and then at one point she realized she could not move her neck. She said Fairfax used his strength to force her to perform oral sex.

That's not refusing to stop when she says no, like most sexual assault accusations. Physically, that kind of assault would be very difficult, if not impossible.

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Re: The Harvey List

#505 Post by BackInTex » Wed Feb 06, 2019 6:53 am

jarnon wrote:
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
jarnon wrote:Virginia Lt. Governor (and likely new Governor) Justin Fairfax

Virginia Lt. Gov: Sexual assault allegation is a 'totally fabricated story out of the blue'
"Fairfax and the woman told different versions of what happened in the hotel room with no one else present. The Washington Post could not find anyone who could corroborate either version."


So what? It was fine for Kavanaugh....
This is what the Washington Post reports that Fairfax is accused of. It was readable at the beginning of the month before the paywall slammed shut.
Spoiler
The woman described a sexual encounter that began with consensual kissing and ended with a forced act that left her crying and shaken. She said Fairfax guided her to the bed, where they continued kissing, and then at one point she realized she could not move her neck. She said Fairfax used his strength to force her to perform oral sex.

That's not refusing to stop when she says no, like most sexual assault accusations. Physically, that kind of assault would be very difficult, if not impossible.
Not as impossible as him not even being there.
In the end, they will all pretty much taste the same.

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Re: The Harvey List

#506 Post by Bob78164 » Wed Feb 06, 2019 2:24 pm

jarnon wrote:
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
jarnon wrote:Virginia Lt. Governor (and likely new Governor) Justin Fairfax

Virginia Lt. Gov: Sexual assault allegation is a 'totally fabricated story out of the blue'
"Fairfax and the woman told different versions of what happened in the hotel room with no one else present. The Washington Post could not find anyone who could corroborate either version."


So what? It was fine for Kavanaugh....
This is what the Washington Post reports that Fairfax is accused of. It was readable at the beginning of the month before the paywall slammed shut.
Spoiler
The woman described a sexual encounter that began with consensual kissing and ended with a forced act that left her crying and shaken. She said Fairfax guided her to the bed, where they continued kissing, and then at one point she realized she could not move her neck. She said Fairfax used his strength to force her to perform oral sex.

That's not refusing to stop when she says no, like most sexual assault accusations. Physically, that kind of assault would be very difficult, if not impossible.
Here's Professor Tyson's statement about the incident. It obviously requires investigation and is plainly serious enough that, if true, it should cost Lt. Gov. Fairfax his job immediately.

This is why I haven't supported calls for Governor Northam's resignation. It's important to maintain gradations among various degrees of unacceptable behavior. Gov. Northam's conduct is the sort of thing I'm willing to see washed away by decades of intervening behavior that demonstrates he's no longer the person who engaged in that behavior (assuming he participated in or was aware of the offensive photographs on his yearbook page). And even if not, the appropriate punishment, from where I stand, is for him to pay a political price in future elections. In contrast, if Lt. Gov. Fairfax did what Professor Tyson accuses him of, it's unforgivable and he needs to go now. --Bob
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." Thomas Jefferson

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Re: The Harvey List

#507 Post by jarnon » Wed Feb 06, 2019 2:51 pm

Bob78164 wrote:
jarnon wrote:This is what the Washington Post reports that Fairfax is accused of. It was readable at the beginning of the month before the paywall slammed shut.
Spoiler
The woman described a sexual encounter that began with consensual kissing and ended with a forced act that left her crying and shaken. She said Fairfax guided her to the bed, where they continued kissing, and then at one point she realized she could not move her neck. She said Fairfax used his strength to force her to perform oral sex.

That's not refusing to stop when she says no, like most sexual assault accusations. Physically, that kind of assault would be very difficult, if not impossible.
Here's Professor Tyson's statement about the incident. It obviously requires investigation and is plainly serious enough that, if true, it should cost Lt. Gov. Fairfax his job immediately.

This is why I haven't supported calls for Governor Northam's resignation. It's important to maintain gradations among various degrees of unacceptable behavior. Gov. Northam's conduct is the sort of thing I'm willing to see washed away by decades of intervening behavior that demonstrates he's no longer the person who engaged in that behavior (assuming he participated in or was aware of the offensive photographs on his yearbook page). And even if not, the appropriate punishment, from where I stand, is for him to pay a political price in future elections. In contrast, if Lt. Gov. Fairfax did what Professor Tyson accuses him of, it's unforgivable and he needs to go now. --Bob
Here is Fairfax's latest statement:

Image

Fairfax and Tyson disagree on many facts, such as whether they communicated after the incident. Her description of the assault, like the Post's, doesn't sound realistic.

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Re: The Harvey List

#508 Post by silverscreenselect » Wed Feb 06, 2019 3:27 pm

Bob78164 wrote: This is why I haven't supported calls for Governor Northam's resignation. It's important to maintain gradations among various degrees of unacceptable behavior.
It's interesting that there have been two other incidents this week, one in Virginia, to put this in some perspective. The Virginia AG, also a Democrat, and the man who would become governor if both Northam and Fairfax resign, has admitted to dressing in blackface in 1980 as an 18-year-old college freshman and going to a party with similarly attired friends who sang rap songs (I didn't even know they had rappers in 1980). There don't appear to be any photos of the event, and no one had come forward previously to accuse him.

And actor Liam Neeson in an interview admitted that sometime when he was a young man (presumably about 40 years ago), a good female friend was raped by a black man, and he armed himself and went out looking for a black man to hurt (he never actually assaulted anyone). Presumably, if Neeson had kept quiet no one would have known about it.

This whole affair is turning into a giant Rohrshach test.
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Re: The Harvey List

#509 Post by silverscreenselect » Wed Feb 06, 2019 3:30 pm

Bob78164 wrote: In contrast, if Lt. Gov. Fairfax did what Professor Tyson accuses him of, it's unforgivable and he needs to go now. --Bob
One of the things that led the Washington Post not to run with the story originally was the lack of similar reports. Now that it's out in the open, if there are other women they are more likely to come forward. It's what happened with Kavanaugh and Roy Moore and Harvey Weinstein and Kevin Spacey.
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Re: The Harvey List

#510 Post by tlynn78 » Wed Feb 06, 2019 4:06 pm

silverscreenselect wrote:
Bob78164 wrote: In contrast, if Lt. Gov. Fairfax did what Professor Tyson accuses him of, it's unforgivable and he needs to go now. --Bob
One of the things that led the Washington Post not to run with the story originally was the lack of similar reports. Now that it's out in the open, if there are other women they are more likely to come forward. It's what happened with Kavanaugh and Roy Moore and Harvey Weinstein and Kevin Spacey.

Hmm. One of these things is not like the others...
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Re: The Harvey List

#511 Post by BackInTex » Wed Feb 06, 2019 5:08 pm

tlynn78 wrote:
silverscreenselect wrote:
Bob78164 wrote: In contrast, if Lt. Gov. Fairfax did what Professor Tyson accuses him of, it's unforgivable and he needs to go now. --Bob
One of the things that led the Washington Post not to run with the story originally was the lack of similar reports. Now that it's out in the open, if there are other women they are more likely to come forward. It's what happened with Kavanaugh and Roy Moore and Harvey Weinstein and Kevin Spacey.

Hmm. One of these things is not like the others...
Let me help, for the evidentiaryly challenged...... the "more" who came forward in the Kavanaugh lynching had less credibility than the original who had none to begin with. In fact, all have recanted or been discredited for being the media whores they are.
In the end, they will all pretty much taste the same.

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Re: The Harvey List

#512 Post by Estonut » Wed Feb 06, 2019 5:19 pm

BackInTex wrote:
tlynn78 wrote:
silverscreenselect wrote:One of the things that led the Washington Post not to run with the story originally was the lack of similar reports. Now that it's out in the open, if there are other women they are more likely to come forward. It's what happened with Kavanaugh and Roy Moore and Harvey Weinstein and Kevin Spacey.
Hmm. One of these things is not like the others...
Let me help, for the evidentiaryly challenged...... the "more" who came forward in the Kavanaugh lynching had less credibility than the original who had none to begin with. In fact, all have recanted or been discredited for being the media whores they are.
Either that, or she was alluding to the fact that no WOMEN have accused Kevin Spacey of any kind of sexual transgression.
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Re: The Harvey List

#513 Post by jarnon » Wed Feb 06, 2019 7:26 pm

Justin Fairfax wrote:Genesis 50:20

“But as for you, you meant evil against me; but God meant it for good, in order to bring it about as it is this day, to save many people alive.”

#WeRiseTogether @roblee4
Joseph speaking to his brothers who sold him into slavery. Joseph was also falsely accused of rape.

Privately, Fairfax expressed his feelings about Tyson in much cruder language. And Fairfax and Tyson are using the same law firms that Kavanaugh and Ford did.

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Re: The Harvey List

#514 Post by jarnon » Sat Feb 09, 2019 1:05 am

silverscreenselect wrote:
Bob78164 wrote: In contrast, if Lt. Gov. Fairfax did what Professor Tyson accuses him of, it's unforgivable and he needs to go now. --Bob
One of the things that led the Washington Post not to run with the story originally was the lack of similar reports. Now that it's out in the open, if there are other women they are more likely to come forward. It's what happened with Kavanaugh and Roy Moore and Harvey Weinstein and Kevin Spacey.
Second woman accuses Virginia Lt. Gov. Justin Fairfax of sexual assault

Fairfax can't survive all this.

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Re: The Harvey List

#515 Post by Bob Juch » Sat Feb 09, 2019 7:53 am

jarnon wrote:
silverscreenselect wrote:
Bob78164 wrote: In contrast, if Lt. Gov. Fairfax did what Professor Tyson accuses him of, it's unforgivable and he needs to go now. --Bob
One of the things that led the Washington Post not to run with the story originally was the lack of similar reports. Now that it's out in the open, if there are other women they are more likely to come forward. It's what happened with Kavanaugh and Roy Moore and Harvey Weinstein and Kevin Spacey.
Second woman accuses Virginia Lt. Gov. Justin Fairfax of sexual assault

Fairfax can't survive all this.
If they have contemporary communications by the victim, he's toast.
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Re: The Harvey List

#516 Post by Bob Juch » Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:37 pm

flockofseagulls104 wrote:
jarnon wrote:Virginia Lt. Governor (and likely new Governor) Justin Fairfax

Virginia Lt. Gov: Sexual assault allegation is a 'totally fabricated story out of the blue'
"Fairfax and the woman told different versions of what happened in the hotel room with no one else present. The Washington Post could not find anyone who could corroborate either version."


So what? It was fine for Kavanaugh....
Well this changes things:

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/02/ ... ia-1166298
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Re: The Harvey List

#517 Post by flockofseagulls104 » Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:16 pm

Bob Juch wrote:
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
jarnon wrote:Virginia Lt. Governor (and likely new Governor) Justin Fairfax

Virginia Lt. Gov: Sexual assault allegation is a 'totally fabricated story out of the blue'
"Fairfax and the woman told different versions of what happened in the hotel room with no one else present. The Washington Post could not find anyone who could corroborate either version."


So what? It was fine for Kavanaugh....
Well this changes things:

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/02/ ... ia-1166298
Why don't we just get rid of the court system? Let's just try every case through the Main Stream and Social Media. Save a lot of time and money....
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Re: The Harvey List

#518 Post by Bob Juch » Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:27 pm

flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Bob Juch wrote:
flockofseagulls104 wrote: "Fairfax and the woman told different versions of what happened in the hotel room with no one else present. The Washington Post could not find anyone who could corroborate either version."


So what? It was fine for Kavanaugh....
Well this changes things:

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/02/ ... ia-1166298
Why don't we just get rid of the court system? Let's just try every case through the Main Stream and Social Media. Save a lot of time and money....
You mean we haven't already?
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Re: The Harvey List

#519 Post by flockofseagulls104 » Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:51 pm

Just for the record, I love it that the 3 top dems in Va got caught in a web of their own design, but I think the thing about Northam in blackface is overblown. Sure, it offends some black folk, but none of us were there, we don't know in what spirit these costumes were presented, it was a time before the professionally offended were somehow given power over all of us, and it was something he did in high school. If he was someone I could vaguely even support, I would not hold it against him. What I hold against him is the matter of fact way he spoke of letting a newborn baby die.
As for Fairfax: this is America, where people are supposed to be presumed innocent. He is just as susceptible to false accusations as Kavanaugh or anyone else. Until it is proven in a court of law, I will give him that presumption.
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Re: The Harvey List

#520 Post by Bob Juch » Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:57 pm

flockofseagulls104 wrote:Just for the record, I love it that the 3 top dems in Va got caught in a web of their own design, but I think the thing about Northam in blackface is overblown. Sure, it offends some black folk, but none of us were there, we don't know in what spirit these costumes were presented, it was a time before the professionally offended were somehow given power over all of us, and it was something he did in high school. If he was someone I could vaguely even support, I would not hold it against him. What I hold against him is the matter of fact way he spoke of letting a newborn baby die.
As for Fairfax: this is America, where people are supposed to be presumed innocent. He is just as susceptible to false accusations as Kavanaugh or anyone else. Until it is proven in a court of law, I will give him that presumption.
Thank you.
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Re: The Harvey List

#521 Post by Bob78164 » Tue Feb 12, 2019 11:19 pm

flockofseagulls104 wrote:Just for the record, I love it that the 3 top dems in Va got caught in a web of their own design, but I think the thing about Northam in blackface is overblown. Sure, it offends some black folk, but none of us were there, we don't know in what spirit these costumes were presented, it was a time before the professionally offended were somehow given power over all of us, and it was something he did in high school. If he was someone I could vaguely even support, I would not hold it against him. What I hold against him is the matter of fact way he spoke of letting a newborn baby die.
As for Fairfax: this is America, where people are supposed to be presumed innocent. He is just as susceptible to false accusations as Kavanaugh or anyone else. Until it is proven in a court of law, I will give him that presumption.
It wasn't something Gov. Northam did in high school. He was in medical school, when he should have been a little more mature.

But I think a sense of proportionality is important. This was a long time ago, the conduct was offensive but not illegal, and his record as a public servant does not support the belief that he is a racist. I don't think it's worth overturning the will of the people of Virginia who elected him.

As for his remarks about non-viable babies, if you're a praying man and ever have to face that decision (as my sister did), pray that you have a doctor who can help you make decisions with the professionalism shown by Dr. Northam. No one thrust into this situation is ever cavalier about it. Ever. Not ever. Claiming that he was is offensive not just to Dr. Northam, but to the thousands of women who have had to make exactly that choice, and to their families. --Bob
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." Thomas Jefferson

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Re: The Harvey List

#522 Post by Estonut » Wed Feb 13, 2019 2:07 am

Bob78164 wrote:No one thrust into this situation is ever cavalier about it. Ever. Not ever.
There is no way you can know this.
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Re: The Harvey List

#523 Post by flockofseagulls104 » Wed Feb 13, 2019 7:56 am

Bob Juch wrote:
flockofseagulls104 wrote:Just for the record, I love it that the 3 top dems in Va got caught in a web of their own design, but I think the thing about Northam in blackface is overblown. Sure, it offends some black folk, but none of us were there, we don't know in what spirit these costumes were presented, it was a time before the professionally offended were somehow given power over all of us, and it was something he did in high school. If he was someone I could vaguely even support, I would not hold it against him. What I hold against him is the matter of fact way he spoke of letting a newborn baby die.
As for Fairfax: this is America, where people are supposed to be presumed innocent. He is just as susceptible to false accusations as Kavanaugh or anyone else. Until it is proven in a court of law, I will give him that presumption.
Thank you.
For what? I believe you were outspoken about Kavanaugh being guilty and not deserving his appointment, weren't you?
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Re: The Harvey List

#524 Post by flockofseagulls104 » Wed Feb 13, 2019 7:58 am

No one thrust into this situation is ever cavalier about it.
One word: Gosnell.
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Re: The Harvey List

#525 Post by silverscreenselect » Wed Feb 13, 2019 8:53 am

Bob Juch wrote: Well this changes things:

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/02/ ... ia-1166298
The second woman has also accused a former Duke and NBA basketball player of raping her as well (He has denied it.)

While these events cast considerable doubt on the second accuser, I haven't heard anything that would tend to disprove what the first accuser said.
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