And so it begins.....

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Bob78164
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Re: And so it begins.....

#151 Post by Bob78164 » Fri Apr 26, 2019 9:19 am

tlynn78 wrote:
silverscreenselect wrote:
flockofseagulls104 wrote: I would hazard to guess that the child's father knows the child as well or better than any of these people. Why is he ignored?
He wasn't ignored. Judges have to make decisions about children's welfare when the parents disagree all the time. And often one parent's wishes are granted as opposed to the other. That doesn't mean that the other is ignored. The judge made a decision based on all the facts in front of him. The father testified, as did the mother. She brought in medical testimony. He brought in the same sort of theological arguments you seem to adore. You want to make a contrary decision based on your prejudices not knowing any of the facts.

Bob and I believe in science and the legal system.

:lol: Except for the science that says XY=male?
You want to condemn this girl to a childhood of misery, one which all too often results in suicide, notwithstanding what her mother, her guardian ad litem, the judge, and the treating physician (all of whom, unlike you, actually know her) all have concluded what's best for her. Don't blame that on science. That's your own bigotry insisting that being transgender just has to be worse than any alternative. --Bob
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Re: And so it begins.....

#152 Post by tlynn78 » Fri Apr 26, 2019 9:40 am

Bob78164 wrote:
tlynn78 wrote:
silverscreenselect wrote:
He wasn't ignored. Judges have to make decisions about children's welfare when the parents disagree all the time. And often one parent's wishes are granted as opposed to the other. That doesn't mean that the other is ignored. The judge made a decision based on all the facts in front of him. The father testified, as did the mother. She brought in medical testimony. He brought in the same sort of theological arguments you seem to adore. You want to make a contrary decision based on your prejudices not knowing any of the facts.

Bob and I believe in science and the legal system.

:lol: Except for the science that says XY=male?
You want to condemn this girl to a childhood of misery, one which all too often results in suicide, notwithstanding what her mother, her guardian ad litem, the judge, and the treating physician (all of whom, unlike you, actually know her) all have concluded what's best for her. Don't blame that on science. That's your own bigotry insisting that being transgender just has to be worse than any alternative. --Bob
Why, yes, Bob, that's what I live for. My sole purpose for existence is to make this child's life a misery. You figured it out! By the way, you might check out the post-surgery suicide rate, as well.
To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead. -Thomas Paine

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Re: And so it begins.....

#153 Post by BackInTex » Fri Apr 26, 2019 9:43 am

tlynn78 wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:
tlynn78 wrote:

:lol: Except for the science that says XY=male?
You want to condemn this girl to a childhood of misery, one which all too often results in suicide, notwithstanding what her mother, her guardian ad litem, the judge, and the treating physician (all of whom, unlike you, actually know her) all have concluded what's best for her. Don't blame that on science. That's your own bigotry insisting that being transgender just has to be worse than any alternative. --Bob
Why, yes, Bob, that's what I live for. My sole purpose for existence is to make this child's life a misery. You figured it out! By the way, you might check out the post-surgery suicide rate, as well.
But the ad litem!
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Re: And so it begins.....

#154 Post by Spock » Fri Apr 26, 2019 9:43 am

Obviously, take it FWIW-but the Heritage Foundation recently hosted a panel of liberals and feminists who don't have a platform on the left to address their concerns about the transgender agenda.

https://www.heritage.org/gender/comment ... der-agenda

You have to scroll quite a ways down to get to the video of the panel discussion,

Most relevant to the discussion here is the presentation that starts at 21:00 minutes as that speaker talks mainly about youth issues.

A topic that I had been wondering about was mentioned.

Apparently, when a child was brought in a few years ago, or whenever, the parents were also evaluated. ie are they mentally ill-is mom just trying to turn her little boy into the little girl she always wanted -etc etc.

However, that protocol is no longer followed and, instead such parents are now congratulated.

Obviously, the bar should be fairly high if you want to castrate your little boy and sentence him to a lifetime of hormone treatments. However, that bar no longer exists.

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Re: And so it begins.....

#155 Post by flockofseagulls104 » Fri Apr 26, 2019 9:47 am

tlynn78 wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:
tlynn78 wrote:

:lol: Except for the science that says XY=male?
You want to condemn this girl to a childhood of misery, one which all too often results in suicide, notwithstanding what her mother, her guardian ad litem, the judge, and the treating physician (all of whom, unlike you, actually know her) all have concluded what's best for her. Don't blame that on science. That's your own bigotry insisting that being transgender just has to be worse than any alternative. --Bob


Why, yes, Bob, that's what I live for. My sole purpose for existence is to make this child's life a misery. You figured it out! By the way, you might check out the post-surgery suicide rate, as well.
You got it right on the nose bob-tel. Not only do we all individually want to make the lives of as many children as miserable as we possibly can, our shared theology is built on that premise. After all, Jesus said "Suffer the little children". You got us all pegged!
Last edited by flockofseagulls104 on Fri Apr 26, 2019 9:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: And so it begins.....

#156 Post by flockofseagulls104 » Fri Apr 26, 2019 9:52 am

This is the science that bob-tel and polly use as their theology.

https://www.iflscience.com/editors-blog ... -happened/
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Re: And so it begins.....

#157 Post by silverscreenselect » Fri Apr 26, 2019 9:53 am

flockofseagulls104 wrote: Not only do we all individually want to make the lives of as many children miserable as we possibly can, our shared theology is built on that premise. After all, Jesus said "Suffer the little children". You got us all pegged!
In your case Flock, it's probably cynical willful indifference. But there are a lot of religious fanatics who do want to make "sinners" suffer, although often their definition of sinner depends on the political persuasion of the individual. Thus, Donald Trump's sins are less sinful than Pete Buttigieg's.
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Re: And so it begins.....

#158 Post by flockofseagulls104 » Fri Apr 26, 2019 10:32 am

silverscreenselect wrote:
flockofseagulls104 wrote: Not only do we all individually want to make the lives of as many children miserable as we possibly can, our shared theology is built on that premise. After all, Jesus said "Suffer the little children". You got us all pegged!
In your case Flock, it's probably cynical willful indifference. But there are a lot of religious fanatics who do want to make "sinners" suffer, although often their definition of sinner depends on the political persuasion of the individual. Thus, Donald Trump's sins are less sinful than Pete Buttigieg's.
Of course it is cynical willful indifference on my part. That's my middle name.
It's really getting crowded under your bed with the white supremacists and religious fanatics who want to make sinners suffer under there. Do you have a king-sized bed?
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Re: And so it begins.....

#159 Post by silverscreenselect » Fri Apr 26, 2019 10:41 am

flockofseagulls104 wrote:
silverscreenselect wrote:
flockofseagulls104 wrote: Not only do we all individually want to make the lives of as many children miserable as we possibly can, our shared theology is built on that premise. After all, Jesus said "Suffer the little children". You got us all pegged!
In your case Flock, it's probably cynical willful indifference. But there are a lot of religious fanatics who do want to make "sinners" suffer, although often their definition of sinner depends on the political persuasion of the individual. Thus, Donald Trump's sins are less sinful than Pete Buttigieg's.
Of course it is cynical willful indifference on my part. That's my middle name.
It's really getting crowded under your bed with the white supremacists and religious fanatics who want to make sinners suffer under there. Do you have a king-sized bed?
Hence, the cynical part.
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Re: And so it begins.....

#160 Post by silverscreenselect » Fri Apr 26, 2019 10:48 am

flockofseagulls104 wrote:This is the science that bob-tel and polly use as their theology.

https://www.iflscience.com/editors-blog ... -happened/
That's why papers are peer reviewed. It's not a perfect method, but I would say it's a lot better than relying on a 2,000 year old religious document that has no scientific credibility.

Your point seems to be that because the child's mother might be biased and the scientific methodology might be flawed and the legal system might be wrong that we should just do what the father wants presumably because you and the Bible are more comfortable with that.

You're big on the rule of law when you think it favors Donald Trump or Brett Kavanaugh but not so much when it decides in favor of a child's mother who has actual medical and scientific evidence in her favor while the father has you, Spock, and the Bible.
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Re: And so it begins.....

#161 Post by Bob78164 » Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:35 am

silverscreenselect wrote:
flockofseagulls104 wrote:This is the science that bob-tel and polly use as their theology.

https://www.iflscience.com/editors-blog ... -happened/
That's why papers are peer reviewed. It's not a perfect method, but I would say it's a lot better than relying on a 2,000 year old religious document that has no scientific credibility.

Your point seems to be that because the child's mother might be biased and the scientific methodology might be flawed and the legal system might be wrong that we should just do what the father wants presumably because you and the Bible are more comfortable with that.

You're big on the rule of law when you think it favors Donald Trump or Brett Kavanaugh but not so much when it decides in favor of a child's mother who has actual medical and scientific evidence in her favor while the father has you, Spock, and the Bible.
Let's not forget all the peer-reviewed papers Spock will cite any day now supporting his speculation about bad outcomes from transitions. I mean, he's sure they happen frequently so I'm certain he has the studies to back up his claim. --Bob
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." Thomas Jefferson

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Re: And so it begins.....

#162 Post by flockofseagulls104 » Fri Apr 26, 2019 12:17 pm

silverscreenselect wrote:
flockofseagulls104 wrote:This is the science that bob-tel and polly use as their theology.

https://www.iflscience.com/editors-blog ... -happened/
That's why papers are peer reviewed. It's not a perfect method, but I would say it's a lot better than relying on a 2,000 year old religious document that has no scientific credibility.

Your point seems to be that because the child's mother might be biased and the scientific methodology might be flawed and the legal system might be wrong that we should just do what the father wants presumably because you and the Bible are more comfortable with that.

You're big on the rule of law when you think it favors Donald Trump or Brett Kavanaugh but not so much when it decides in favor of a child's mother who has actual medical and scientific evidence in her favor while the father has you, Spock, and the Bible.
I'm just saying it's a bad idea to castrate a 6 year old kid for any reason. You have brought in your theology,trump (big surprise) and all the other crap. You and bob-tel the prophet are the zealots here.
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Re: And so it begins.....

#163 Post by flockofseagulls104 » Fri Apr 26, 2019 12:19 pm

Bob78164 wrote:
silverscreenselect wrote:
flockofseagulls104 wrote:This is the science that bob-tel and polly use as their theology.

https://www.iflscience.com/editors-blog ... -happened/
That's why papers are peer reviewed. It's not a perfect method, but I would say it's a lot better than relying on a 2,000 year old religious document that has no scientific credibility.

Your point seems to be that because the child's mother might be biased and the scientific methodology might be flawed and the legal system might be wrong that we should just do what the father wants presumably because you and the Bible are more comfortable with that.

You're big on the rule of law when you think it favors Donald Trump or Brett Kavanaugh but not so much when it decides in favor of a child's mother who has actual medical and scientific evidence in her favor while the father has you, Spock, and the Bible.
Let's not forget all the peer-reviewed papers Spock will cite any day now supporting his speculation about bad outcomes from transitions. I mean, he's sure they happen frequently so I'm certain he has the studies to back up his claim. --Bob
https://www.heritage.org/gender/comment ... e-evidence
Your friendly neighborhood racist. On the waiting list to be a nazi. Designated an honorary 'snowflake'. Trolled by the very best, as well as by BJ. Always typical, unlike others.., Fulminator, Hopelessly in the tank for trump... inappropriate... Flocking himself... Probably a tucking sexist, too... All thought comes from the right wing noise machine(TM)... A clear and present threat to The Future Of Our Democracy.. Doesn't understand anything... Made the trump apologist and enabler playoffs... Heathen bastard... Knows nothing about history... Liar

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Re: And so it begins.....

#164 Post by Bob78164 » Fri Apr 26, 2019 12:33 pm

flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:
silverscreenselect wrote:
That's why papers are peer reviewed. It's not a perfect method, but I would say it's a lot better than relying on a 2,000 year old religious document that has no scientific credibility.

Your point seems to be that because the child's mother might be biased and the scientific methodology might be flawed and the legal system might be wrong that we should just do what the father wants presumably because you and the Bible are more comfortable with that.

You're big on the rule of law when you think it favors Donald Trump or Brett Kavanaugh but not so much when it decides in favor of a child's mother who has actual medical and scientific evidence in her favor while the father has you, Spock, and the Bible.
Let's not forget all the peer-reviewed papers Spock will cite any day now supporting his speculation about bad outcomes from transitions. I mean, he's sure they happen frequently so I'm certain he has the studies to back up his claim. --Bob
https://www.heritage.org/gender/comment ... e-evidence
Is there some part of "peer reviewed" that you have a problem understanding?

And by the way, here's the conclusion from one of the cited papers: "Our findings suggest that sex reassignment, although alleviating gender dysphoria, may not suffice as treatment for transsexualism, and should inspire improved psychiatric and somatic care after sex reassignment for this patient group." That doesn't mean you shouldn't do it. It means you have to do more. --Bob
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Re: And so it begins.....

#165 Post by BackInTex » Fri Apr 26, 2019 1:59 pm

Bob78164 wrote:
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:Let's not forget all the peer-reviewed papers Spock will cite any day now supporting his speculation about bad outcomes from transitions. I mean, he's sure they happen frequently so I'm certain he has the studies to back up his claim. --Bob
https://www.heritage.org/gender/comment ... e-evidence
Is there some part of "peer reviewed" that you have a problem understanding?

And by the way, here's the conclusion from one of the cited papers: "Our findings suggest that sex reassignment, although alleviating gender dysphoria, may not suffice as treatment for transsexualism, and should inspire improved psychiatric and somatic care after sex reassignment for this patient group." That doesn't mean you shouldn't do it. It means you have to do more. --Bob
Because the underlying mental illness is not being addressed by hormones and surgeries. It’s like putting on a bigger bumper instead of fixing the brakes.
In the end, they will all pretty much taste the same.

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Re: And so it begins.....

#166 Post by Bob78164 » Fri Apr 26, 2019 2:14 pm

BackInTex wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:
Is there some part of "peer reviewed" that you have a problem understanding?

And by the way, here's the conclusion from one of the cited papers: "Our findings suggest that sex reassignment, although alleviating gender dysphoria, may not suffice as treatment for transsexualism, and should inspire improved psychiatric and somatic care after sex reassignment for this patient group." That doesn't mean you shouldn't do it. It means you have to do more. --Bob
Because the underlying mental illness is not being addressed by hormones and surgeries. It’s like putting on a bigger bumper instead of fixing the brakes.
Because continued exposure to the kind of bigotry on open display in this very thread is not particularly healthy for the targets of that bigotry. --Bob
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." Thomas Jefferson

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Re: And so it begins.....

#167 Post by flockofseagulls104 » Fri Apr 26, 2019 3:32 pm

Bob78164 wrote:
BackInTex wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:Is there some part of "peer reviewed" that you have a problem understanding?

And by the way, here's the conclusion from one of the cited papers: "Our findings suggest that sex reassignment, although alleviating gender dysphoria, may not suffice as treatment for transsexualism, and should inspire improved psychiatric and somatic care after sex reassignment for this patient group." That doesn't mean you shouldn't do it. It means you have to do more. --Bob
Because the underlying mental illness is not being addressed by hormones and surgeries. It’s like putting on a bigger bumper instead of fixing the brakes.
Because continued exposure to the kind of bigotry on open display in this very thread is not particularly healthy for the targets of that bigotry. --Bob
The only ones I can see on this thread that are bigotted are you and polly. You toss around paranoidal stereotypes, accuse everyone else of motives I can only assume they don't have because I don't have them and spew epithets like lugies. Do a little introspection, wouldja?
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Re: And so it begins.....

#168 Post by tlynn78 » Fri Apr 26, 2019 4:07 pm

flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:
BackInTex wrote:
Because the underlying mental illness is not being addressed by hormones and surgeries. It’s like putting on a bigger bumper instead of fixing the brakes.
Because continued exposure to the kind of bigotry on open display in this very thread is not particularly healthy for the targets of that bigotry. --Bob
The only ones I can see on this thread that are bigotted are you and polly. You toss around paranoidal stereotypes, accuse everyone else of motives I can only assume they don't have because I don't have them and spew epithets like lugies. Do a little introspection, wouldja?

Totally incapable.
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Re: And so it begins.....

#169 Post by Spock » Fri Apr 26, 2019 5:50 pm

tlynn78 wrote:
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:Because continued exposure to the kind of bigotry on open display in this very thread is not particularly healthy for the targets of that bigotry. --Bob
The only ones I can see on this thread that are bigotted are you and polly. You toss around paranoidal stereotypes, accuse everyone else of motives I can only assume they don't have because I don't have them and spew epithets like lugies. Do a little introspection, wouldja?

Totally incapable.
Does Bob's audience include a lot of those targets of bigotry on open display in this thread?

Bob>>>"You have the bigotry to insist on referring to her by male pronouns no matter what effect it may have on her."<<<

Are you going to put my head in a rat cage until I agree to call a little boy a little girl?

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Re: And so it begins.....

#170 Post by Bob78164 » Fri Apr 26, 2019 6:07 pm

Spock wrote:
tlynn78 wrote:
flockofseagulls104 wrote: The only ones I can see on this thread that are bigotted are you and polly. You toss around paranoidal stereotypes, accuse everyone else of motives I can only assume they don't have because I don't have them and spew epithets like lugies. Do a little introspection, wouldja?

Totally incapable.
Does Bob's audience include a lot of those targets of bigotry on open display in this thread?

Bob>>>"You have the bigotry to insist on referring to her by male pronouns no matter what effect it may have on her."<<<

Are you going to put my head in a rat cage until I agree to call a little boy a little girl?
All I can do is call out the bigotry each and every time. But I will do that. Just like I wouldn't let it pass if someone here used the "n" word. --Bob
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." Thomas Jefferson

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Re: And so it begins.....

#171 Post by Spock » Fri Apr 26, 2019 6:17 pm

Bob78164 wrote:
Spock wrote:
tlynn78 wrote:

Totally incapable.
Does Bob's audience include a lot of those targets of bigotry on open display in this thread?

Bob>>>"You have the bigotry to insist on referring to her by male pronouns no matter what effect it may have on her."<<<

Are you going to put my head in a rat cage until I agree to call a little boy a little girl?
All I can do is call out the bigotry each and every time. But I will do that. Just like I wouldn't let it pass if someone here used the "n" word. --Bob
One thing that I will take proudly to my grave is that I am not in favor of castrating 6 YO's. If that is bigotry-so be it-I will carry that label proudly and with honor.

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Re: And so it begins.....

#172 Post by Bob78164 » Fri Apr 26, 2019 6:21 pm

Spock wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:
Spock wrote:
Does Bob's audience include a lot of those targets of bigotry on open display in this thread?

Bob>>>"You have the bigotry to insist on referring to her by male pronouns no matter what effect it may have on her."<<<

Are you going to put my head in a rat cage until I agree to call a little boy a little girl?
All I can do is call out the bigotry each and every time. But I will do that. Just like I wouldn't let it pass if someone here used the "n" word. --Bob
One thing that I will take proudly to my grave is that I am not in favor of castrating 6 YO's. If that is bigotry-so be it-I will carry that label proudly and with honor.
You will take proudly to your grave your insistence on referring to transgender girls by male pronouns.

No matter how much pain your insistence on your bigotry causes the girls in question.

Do you know even one transgender person, ma'am? Do you insist on using the wrong pronoun when you address them? --Bob
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." Thomas Jefferson

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Re: And so it begins.....

#173 Post by flockofseagulls104 » Fri Apr 26, 2019 7:27 pm

Bob78164 wrote:
Spock wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:All I can do is call out the bigotry each and every time. But I will do that. Just like I wouldn't let it pass if someone here used the "n" word. --Bob
ne thing that I will take proudly to my grave is that I am not in favor of castrating 6 YO's. If that is bigotry-so be it-I will carry that label proudly and with honor.
You will take proudly to your grave your insistence on referring to transgender girls by male pronouns.

No matter how much pain your insistence on your bigotry causes the girls in question.

Do you know even one transgender person, ma'am? Do you insist on using the wrong pronoun when you address them? --Bob
We're not talking about pronouns bob-tel. If I interact with somebody I'll call them whatever they want to be called up to a point. Also if I think they're a jerk, I will call them that. Bob-tel, you are a jerk. See?


What we're talking about is deliberately mutilating a child. The reasons are irrelevant. It's just WRONG.
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Re: And so it begins.....

#174 Post by Bob78164 » Fri Apr 26, 2019 7:35 pm

flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:
Spock wrote: ne thing that I will take proudly to my grave is that I am not in favor of castrating 6 YO's. If that is bigotry-so be it-I will carry that label proudly and with honor.
You will take proudly to your grave your insistence on referring to transgender girls by male pronouns.

No matter how much pain your insistence on your bigotry causes the girls in question.

Do you know even one transgender person, ma'am? Do you insist on using the wrong pronoun when you address them? --Bob
We're not talking about pronouns bob-tel. If I interact with somebody I'll call them whatever they want to be called up to a point. Also if I think they're a jerk, I will call them that. Bob-tel, you are a jerk. See?


What we're talking about is deliberately mutilating a child. The reasons are irrelevant. It's just WRONG.
By calling it "mutilation" you're assuming your conclusion. That's like saying it's "mutilating" a child to fix her cleft palate because that's how she was born, so that's how she was intended to be.

But my most vehement objections are to the insistence of Spock (and BiT) on referring to her by male pronouns, even though she identifies as female. That's what demonstrates their bigotry. The court system can protect her from officious intermeddlers who would attempt to interfere with the medical treatment deemed appropriate by her mother, her guardian ad litem, a neutral judge, and her treating physician. It can't do much to protect her from the bigotry of those who refuse to acknowledge her gender. That's where the rest of us come in. --Bob
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." Thomas Jefferson

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tlynn78
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Re: And so it begins.....

#175 Post by tlynn78 » Fri Apr 26, 2019 8:10 pm

And where will you be if the child decides at 14, 16, or twenty, mom was wrong, I'm a guy? He could never be made whole.
To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead. -Thomas Paine

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