Zimmerman not guilty

[themanintheseersuckersuit]

Well, if you'll read the interviews with the neighbors, you'll find that they weren't all that keen on having Zimmerman's type of "watching out for them." He creeped them out, the black ones residents more than the others. They didn't like his going around handing out flyers about suspicious people; they didn't like his making a nuisance of himself.

What interviews? The FBI hasn't posted theirs, as far as I know. Interviews by the media are suspect and if the folks being interviewed are identified, then, well, their public opinions are suspect do to their fears of reprisal or name calling by you name callers.

The FBI reported 35 interviews of neighbors and friends showed no racial bias by Zimmerman.

Bit this is how you get there

VI. Today on a law professor listserv I frequent, one of the members was fulminating about how Zimmerman had once called 911 because he was afraid of a seven-year-old black boy, and this shows how racist Zimmerman is, and so forth and so on. The professor cited to this blog post at breakingbrown.com. The post cites to a Daily Beast post about Zimmarman’s interactions with the police. The first thing that raised my suspicion was the Beast made it clear that the call was to the police non-emergency number, not 911. The Beast reported the call log as:

April 22, 2011 – 7:09 p.m. Type: TEL Subject: Suspicious activity
Report: Juvenile black male “apprx 7–9” years old, four feet tall “skinny build short blk hair” last seen wearing a blue t-shirt and blue shorts.

This presented me with two possibilities: this was either strong evidence that Zimmerman was truly a paranoid racist nutjob, or the “suspicious activity” he reported was something along the lines of an unsupervised child. So I spent less then a minute googling and found the more detailed police description of his call (page 37 of the link), which paraphrased Zimmerman as follows: “Advsd is walking alone & is not supervised on busy street compl concerned for well-being.”

And thus a call from Zimmerman expressing concern for the safety of a young boy walking alone on a busy street gets turned into Zimmerman calling 911 on a seven year African American boy that he feared because of his racist paranoia. Unfortunately, lots of people seem to be only reading websites like BreakingBrown and not bothering to check on what they read so long as it fits the narrative they’ve already adopted. As noted, even law professors, who one would think would try to investigate before spreading libelous rumors, aren’t immune (though I should note based on blogs and social media I’ve seen, most crim law and evidence professors, including most liberal ones, think that the jury came to the correct conclusion based on the evidence presented).

http://www.volokh.com/2013/07/16/a-few- ... ted-notes/

[silverscreenselect]

The FBI reported 35 interviews of neighbors and friends showed no racial bias by Zimmerman.

Amazing how many people are unwilling to go on record with the cops saying something that could get them hauled into court to testify.

[BackInTex]

The FBI reported 35 interviews of neighbors and friends showed no racial bias by Zimmerman.

Amazing how many people are unwilling to go on record with the cops saying something that could get them hauled into court to testify.

IF their interview were to get then hauled into court, it wouldn't matter which answer they give.

[silverscreenselect]

You mean people like George Zimmerman who assaulted a police officer and his ex-fiancee before he killed Trayvon Martin. You may have a point there.

Bigotry takes many forms.

I admit it. I'm bigoted against people who assault women and police officers.

[silverscreenselect]

IF their interview were to get then hauled into court, it wouldn't matter which answer they give.

Let's see, if you say, I never heard George say anything bigoted, do you think they'll be called to testify? On the other hand, if they heard him say "All black teenagers are hoodlums" what do you think will happen?

I've said, and you conveniently have a hard time understanding this, it's very possible George Zimmerman or anyone could not be in general a bigot, but would come to a conclusion about a person of one race's probable criminality in circumstances in which he would not make a similar conclusion about a person of another persuasion. It's the same reasoning that might lead someone not to hire an individual because he's Mexican and the employer just has a feeling he might be lazy on the job, or that he's Irish and the employer might think he has a drinking problem.

I don't doubt George Zimmerman sincerely thought Trayvon Martin was likely involved in criminal activity based on what he observed and his life experience. Otherwise he wouldn't have reacted as he did. And the jurors, none of whom were black, found his suspicions reasonable and the version of the events he gave in the police interview (not on the witness stand) credible for those same reasons. That doesn't make them bigots. It does lead to bias on their part.

[silverscreenselect]

Interesting article about self-defense in this case and in a possible civil case:

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_ ... t_off.html

[jarnon]

Here's what President Obama said this morning about bias in society:

You know, when Trayvon Martin was first shot, I said that this could have been my son. Another way of saying that is Trayvon Martin could have been me, 35 years ago.

And when you think about why, in the African-American community at least, there’s a lot of pain around what happened here, I think it’s important to recognize that the African-American community is looking at this issue through a set of experiences and a — and a history that — that doesn’t go away.

There are very few African-American men in this country who haven’t had the experience of being followed when they were shopping in a department store. That includes me.

There are probably very few African-American men who haven’t had the experience of walking across the street and hearing the locks click on the doors of cars. That happens to me — at least before I was a senator.

There are very few African-Americans who haven’t had the experience of getting on an elevator and a woman clutching her purse nervously and holding her breath until she had a chance to get off. That happens often.

And, you know, I — I don’t want to exaggerate this, but those sets of experiences inform how the African-American community interprets what happened one night in Florida.

And it’s inescapable for people to bring those experiences to bear.

The African-American community is also knowledgeable that there is a history racial disparities in the application of our criminal laws, everything from the death penalty to enforcement of our drug laws. And that ends up having an impact in terms of how people interpret the case.

Now, this isn’t to say that the African-American community is naive about the fact that African-American young men are disproportionately involved in the criminal justice system, that they’re disproportionately both victims and perpetrators of violence. It’s not to make excuses for that fact.

Although, black folks do interpret the reasons for that in a historical context. They understand that, some of the violence that takes place in poor black neighborhoods around the country is born out of a very violent past in this country. And that the poverty and dysfunction that we see in those communities can be traced to a very difficult history.

And so, the fact that sometimes that’s unacknowledged adds to the frustration. And the fact that a lot of Africa-American boys are painted with a broad brush and the excuses given, “Well, there are these statistics out there that show that African-American boys are more violent,” using that as an excuse to then see sons treated differently causes pain.

I think the African-American community is also not naive in understanding that, statistically, somebody like Trayvon Martin was probably, statistically, more likely to be shot by a peer than he was by somebody else.

So — so folks understand the challenges that exist for African- American boys. But they get frustrated, I think, if they feel that there’s no context for it, or — and that context is being denied. And — and that all contributes, I think, to a sense that if a white male teen was involved in the same kind of scenario that, from top to bottom, both the outcome and the aftermath might have been different.

[silverscreenselect]

Kung Fu students demonstrate impossibility of Zimmerman's version of fight:

http://politicalblindspot.org/martial-a ... rman-lied/

[flockofseagulls104]

IF their interview were to get then hauled into court, it wouldn't matter which answer they give.

Let's see, if you say, I never heard George say anything bigoted, do you think they'll be called to testify? On the other hand, if they heard him say "All black teenagers are hoodlums" what do you think will happen?

I've said, and you conveniently have a hard time understanding this, it's very possible George Zimmerman or anyone could not be in general a bigot, but would come to a conclusion about a person of one race's probable criminality in circumstances in which he would not make a similar conclusion about a person of another persuasion. It's the same reasoning that might lead someone not to hire an individual because he's Mexican and the employer just has a feeling he might be lazy on the job, or that he's Irish and the employer might think he has a drinking problem.

I don't doubt George Zimmerman sincerely thought Trayvon Martin was likely involved in criminal activity based on what he observed and his life experience. Otherwise he wouldn't have reacted as he did. And the jurors, none of whom were black, found his suspicions reasonable and the version of the events he gave in the police interview (not on the witness stand) credible for those same reasons. That doesn't make them bigots. It does lead to bias on their part.

I would truly like to live in a colorblind society. We have made so much progress towards that in my lifetime. If we could just convince people like you who seem to see racism in everything to stop judging and categorizing people by their ethnicity, we would be a lot closer.

[BackInTex]

I've said, and you conveniently have a hard time understanding this, it's very possible George Zimmerman or anyone could not be in general a bigot, but would come to a conclusion about a person of one race's probable criminality in circumstances in which he would not make a similar conclusion about a person of another persuasion.

I don't doubt George Zimmerman sincerely thought Trayvon Martin was likely involved in criminal activity based on what he observed and his life experience. Otherwise he wouldn't have reacted as he did. And the jurors, none of whom were black, found his suspicions reasonable and the version of the events he gave in the police interview (not on the witness stand) credible for those same reasons. That doesn't make them bigots. It does lead to bias on their part.

Regardless of what you think, the police detective told the FBI that he did not think Zimmerman profiled based on race, but based on dress.

Serino explained to agents that the local gang, referred to in the community as "GOONS", typically dressed in black and wore hoodies.

FBI report

[silverscreenselect]

Serino explained to agents that the local gang, referred to in the community as "GOONS", typically dressed in black and wore hoodies.

FIB report

And would you care to guess what the ethnic makeup of those local gangs were.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/201 ... estigation

(Fly Goon Lumberjacks, associated with the Bloods) Goon is a slang term used with black gangs.

So, he didn't profile Trayvon because Trayvon was black, but because he wore the same hoodie that members of a local black street gang wore. Do you think he would have made the same assumption were Trayvon white?

[silverscreenselect]

I would truly like to live in a colorblind society. We have made so much progress towards that in my lifetime. If we could just convince people like you who seem to see racism in everything to stop judging and categorizing people by their ethnicity, we would be a lot closer.

And people like you seem to refuse to believe racial bias exists unless someone flat out admits to it.

[BackInTex]

Serino explained to agents that the local gang, referred to in the community as "GOONS", typically dressed in black and wore hoodies.

FIB report

And would you care to guess what the ethnic makeup of those local gangs were.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/201 ... estigation

(Fly Goon Lumberjacks, associated with the Bloods) Goon is a slang term used with black gangs.

So, he didn't profile Trayvon because Trayvon was black, but because he wore the same hoodie that members of a local black street gang wore. Do you think he would have made the same assumption were Trayvon white?

He would have made the same assumption based on the dress. It not his fault the majority of the gang members were black. So black thugs get a pass because of their race?

[silverscreenselect]

He would have made the same assumption based on the dress. It not his fault the majority of the gang members were black. So black thugs get a pass because of their race?

Not majority. All. Street gangs are not big on racial integration.

If Martin is white, there is no way Zimmerman assumes he's a member of a black street gang, hoodie or not. Just like if you go around in a Tony Romo Cowboys' jersey, there's no way people assume you're Romo who somehow doesn't look nearly as athletic in person as on the TV screen.

Hoodie + black = street gang. Hoodie + white = white kid wearing a hoodie.

[flockofseagulls104]

I would truly like to live in a colorblind society. We have made so much progress towards that in my lifetime. If we could just convince people like you who seem to see racism in everything to stop judging and categorizing people by their ethnicity, we would be a lot closer.

And people like you seem to refuse to believe racial bias exists unless someone flat out admits to it.

I know it exists. But I also know it doesn't exist in places where the race-baiters point to. That is one of the ways I know which side of some arguments is full of crap.

A couple examples:

Rush Limbaugh is a lot of things, but racist is not one of them. Anyone who spouts off about Limbaugh being a racist is full of shit, and any further arguments are moot.

The Tea Party has 3, and only 3, basic tenets. That our Federal Government is way too big. That it needs to adhere to the Constitution, and that it needs to be fiscally responsible. Anyone who accuses the Tea Party movement of being racist has no idea what they're talking about,and are only doing so to advance a political agenda. There may be individuals that are part of the Tea Party movement that are racist, but they are not representative and they are certainly not welcome. And some have been planted for the media's consumption.

Many people, in the name of their political agenda, use the accusation of racism as a tool, and they destroy innocent people's reputations and dilute the charge when it is actually valid. The same people ignore obvious racism in people that are on their side of a political agenda. That is just as heinous.

[BackInTex]

I know it [racism] exists.

Sure it does. Here is a clear example:

Not majority [of gang members were black]. All. Street gangs are not big on racial integration.
Hoodie + black = street gang.

And just to make sure we have the context...the quote was in response to a comment about the majority of the gangs being black and the quote was to cement the thought

[silverscreenselect]

And just to make sure we have the context...the quote was in response to a comment about the majority of the gangs being black and the quote was to cement the thought

The quote was not in reference to street gangs in general but this particular gang. There's lots of street gangs out there.

And the equation was Zimmerman's thought processes, not mine.

You conveniently misread my comments.

[silverscreenselect]

Here's a Youtube link to a video about the Goons. I'm not embedding it here directly because the language on the video makes extensive use of the N-word, the F-word and a lot of other cuss words. There's links to several other Youtube videos about the Goons. You won't see any white faces there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APBDrjSj ... ata_player

[BackInTex]

And just to make sure we have the context...the quote was in response to a comment about the majority of the gangs being black and the quote was to cement the thought

The quote was not in reference to street gangs in general but this particular gang. There's lots of street gangs out there.

And the equation was Zimmerman's thought processes, not mine.

You conveniently misread my comments.

Wow! And Zimmerman, charged with watching out for these guys was not supposed to be cautious and concerned when he thinks he might see one walking through the neighborhood in the dark and in the rain? And be unarmed?

[Bob Juch]

I would truly like to live in a colorblind society. We have made so much progress towards that in my lifetime. If we could just convince people like you who seem to see racism in everything to stop judging and categorizing people by their ethnicity, we would be a lot closer.

And people like you seem to refuse to believe racial bias exists unless someone flat out admits to it.

I know it exists. But I also know it doesn't exist in places where the race-baiters point to. That is one of the ways I know which side of some arguments is full of crap.

A couple examples:

Rush Limbaugh is a lot of things, but racist is not one of them. Anyone who spouts off about Limbaugh being a racist is full of shit, and any further arguments are moot.

The Tea Party has 3, and only 3, basic tenets. That our Federal Government is way too big. That it needs to adhere to the Constitution, and that it needs to be fiscally responsible. Anyone who accuses the Tea Party movement of being racist has no idea what they're talking about,and are only doing so to advance a political agenda. There may be individuals that are part of the Tea Party movement that are racist, but they are not representative and they are certainly not welcome. And some have been planted for the media's consumption.

Many people, in the name of their political agenda, use the accusation of racism as a tool, and they destroy innocent people's reputations and dilute the charge when it is actually valid. The same people ignore obvious racism in people that are on their side of a political agenda. That is just as heinous.

You're right: Limbaugh isn't a racist; he thinks he's superior to everyone.

[themanintheseersuckersuit]

You're right: Limbaugh isn't a racist; he thinks he's superior to everyone.

NTTIAWT

[Spock]

Interesting that the "Child" (Martin) out purchasing candy-just happened to purchase Arizona Watermelon Fruit Juice Cocktail and Skittles which are 2 of the 3 components of a drug cocktails((The other is cough syrup) known as Lean and/or DXM which are common in Southern Hip-Hop culture.

[themanintheseersuckersuit]

Interesting that the "Child" (Martin) out purchasing candy-just happened to purchase Arizona Watermelon Fruit Juice Cocktail and Skittles which are 2 of the 3 components of a drug cocktails((The other is cough syrup) known as Lean and/or DXM which are common in Southern Hip-Hop culture.

Spock are you watching Afterburner again?

[BackInTex]

Interesting that the "Child" (Martin) out purchasing candy-just happened to purchase Arizona Watermelon Fruit Juice Cocktail and Skittles which are 2 of the 3 components of a drug cocktails((The other is cough syrup) known as Lean and/or DXM which are common in Southern Hip-Hop culture.

I'm waiting on Donald Trump to announce a national email to collect dirt on Trayvon Martin. Its time to bring out all the dirt on the thug.

In other news, model citizen George Zimmerman helped rescue a family who was trapped in an overturned vehicle.

[silvercamaro]

You're right: Limbaugh isn't a racist; he thinks he's superior to everyone.

Didja ever have one of those moments when the jokes are so plentiful and so obvious that it's not even worth writing them down? I guess I'll throw 'em in the back of a kitchen cabinet where I keep all of my old pots and kettles.