Wedding Blog: BD**2 - 165

[gsabc]

Today is BD's birthday. She's 23. Her last birthday with her current name. Her last birthday under our roof. All sorts of other milestones that generally mean our baby is leaving the nest. *sniffle* I hope GW is ready to have me as the sole other two-legged occupant of the house again. Am I ready for her? It will be strange, after 25-plus years with kids around.

I am convinced that long-lasting marriages are as much due to luck as any other factor. There are just too many things that are not discussed when you're dating, or even when you're engaged. Take attitudes on money, the number one factor behind marital arguments according to surveys. GW and I have very similar outlooks on the subject. Simply put, it's "pay cash when you can". Our long-term debt is a mortgage, period. There is a 2nd mortgage (that's what "home equity" means, folks, no matter what you call it) line of credit that we took out in case we needed it for tuition, but we haven't used it since HS left school. We have refinanced three times to get lower interest rates (our first was 13.5%!), the last two for a 15-year term. We pay cash for our cars, unless there's a really low interest rate available from the dealer. We also run them into the ground; the last car we got rid of literally had pieces falling off of it. We use mainly one credit card which gives us a 1% rebate on all purchases, and we pay it off in full every month. I say mainly because we do have a gasoline card, which pays back 5% on purchases at their stations. We also use store cards when they're offering higher discounts on purchases for using it than we'd get from the rebates on the bank cards.

Anyway, we did not discuss money while dating. At all, as far as I can recall. It was just luck that one or both of us weren't big spenders, running up credit bills and paying minimums. I can see where hints during dating may warn of a potential problem. But love can truly be blind, and you don't think about or question how your date can afford those fancy clothes, sporty cars, expensive restaurants, etc. You just enjoy them and look adoringly into your love's eyes. Ah, but when you get hitched and you share the responsibility for paying the bills, that's when the problems and arguments start.

Note that I carefully do not mention either sex as the prime generator of the problem. We know a couple where both were big spenders (and who simply walked away from a house when they couldn't pay the mortgage, although they could "afford" to go to Disney World that year), and one where the wife got religion and cut back but the husband kept on spending (including the money intended for the kid's college tuition). All it takes is one spouse to break the bank. And often the marriage in the process.

[Appa23]

I am convinced that long-lasting marriages are as much due to luck as any other factor. There are just too many things that are not discussed when you're dating, or even when you're engaged.

I do not entirely agree. You may recall that I had asked you, several posts ago, whether BD and FSIL had undertaken any premarital counseling. To me, if treated seriously, such a step takes much of the "luck" out of marital success, or at least increases the odds of such success by getting them to discuss and agree on how certain issues/decisions will be decided before they arise.

I know that it is mandatory to be married on a Roman Catholic church to have such counsleing, as well as in a Missouri Synod Lutheran church. It is money well-spent.

Just my two cents, but it is ridiculous to enter into a lifelong commitment without first discussing finances (present and future), number of kids, children's education, religion (especially determining where to attend in a mixed faith family), and all of those day-to-day things like chores. Such counseling also can help see if the two people really are compatible.

Luck certainly plays a part, but, as with other things in life, one may need to rely less on luck if you put the work into the marriage beforehand.

[PlacentiaSoccerMom]

The glue that keeps our marriage together is the fact that nobody else would tolerate either of us.

We never had premarital counseling. I think that we both figured that whatever came up, we would work out and we have.

We've been together for 23 years and married for almost 19 years.

[earendel]

I am convinced that long-lasting marriages are as much due to luck as any other factor. There are just too many things that are not discussed when you're dating, or even when you're engaged.

I do not entirely agree. You may recall that I had asked you, several posts ago, whether BD and FSIL had undertaken any premarital counseling. To me, if treated seriously, such a step takes much of the "luck" out of marital success, or at least increases the odds of such success by getting them to discuss and agree on how certain issues/decisions will be decided before they arise.

I know that it is mandatory to be married on a Roman Catholic church to have such counsleing, as well as in a Missouri Synod Lutheran church. It is money well-spent.

Just my two cents, but it is ridiculous to enter into a lifelong commitment without first discussing finances (present and future), number of kids, children's education, religion (especially determining where to attend in a mixed faith family), and all of those day-to-day things like chores. Such counseling also can help see if the two people really are compatible.

Luck certainly plays a part, but, as with other things in life, one may need to rely less on luck if you put the work into the marriage beforehand.

elwing and I were counseled by our pastor prior to getting married - it was something that he required of any couple, even if they had been church members for many years. Our current church requires that couples undergo premarital counseling as a prerequisite for use of the facilities. Does it help? I can't say - elwing and I will celebrate 36 years of marriage this July; another couple that was married about the same time at the same church got divorced after 10 years. Of course 10 years into our marriage we already had 2 children whereas the other couple was childless, so that may have had something to do with it. There are just so many variables.

[tlynn78]

I am approaching 27 years of marriage - through a combination of luck, determination and pure stubborness. We lived together for 2 years before marrying, so I knew what I was getting into. We did no counseling. I'm not knocking it, but one can't possibly cover in counsleing all the eventualities one will encounter during a marriage, although I admit I can see the benefit of at least discussing some of the biggies (children, money, discipline) beforehand.
I also think that how one might answer a hypothetical in counseling when one is 25-ish is not necessarily the way one will still think/act/feel when the hypthetical becomes a reality 5-10 years down the road. That's where luck, determination and stubborness can help.

t.

[Appa23]

Stubborness and determination, I like it! Very appropriate for what is takes to make a marriage work.

[gsabc]

I had considered mentioning counseling in my post, but it was already getting too long. I don't know of any statistics or where to find them, but I'd bet that counseled couples, taking out those religions where divorce is severely frowned upon anyway, have a much lower divorce rate than uncounseled ones.

There will always be couples who just shouldn't have gotten married in the first place. For the rest of us, more information about the potential partner could help, and lower the luck factor in remaining together long term.

[Beebs52]

I pretty much agree with most of what a lot of you have to say.

I will underscore t-girlie's "what happens 5-10 years down the road" as pivotal. It's very easy to intellectualize what you would do with the money, the discipline, etc. and, sometimes, carry those decisions out as planned. But, it's impossible to describe what happens in your heart when certain things happen. Like kids. Unless you've had a child (via your own body or adoption or whatever) you can't imagine the indescribable love you feel. It's totally unlike anything else. It's not possible to "counsel" that into you. Just one thing that you will be surprised with. Along with how they'll wrench your guts at moments and I defy most anybody towing the pre-planned party line perfectly in all situations.

You have to be adaptable. You have to consider other avenues of working out things sometimes. If only in your own head for your own sanity.

Oh, and it was 27 years in January for us. No premarital counseling for us, either, other than our own. Heh.
Because you can't predict your reaction when some dire illness or accident occurs. Or when another one occurs. Or another.

It's a great idea to sit down with goals and role-playing-better to have some game plan than none-but dismissing the random and serendipitous, (and building from those sometimes) is a mistake.

[gsabc]

For the record, we will hit the big 3-0 on Beethoven's birthday. I owe GW something special. I need to start thinking about what that might be now. Whether we can afford it by then is another story.