A home for the weary.
https://www.wwtbambored.com/
And in the case of the Corps of Engineers some jobs are military-funded and some are civil-funded; the former may get to keep working since the "uniformed services" will continue to get paid. Some of the civil-funded employees are being paid from money appropriated in previous years and they, too, get to keep working. The problem is that no one around here knows who falls into which category. So if the government shuts down at midnight tomorrow night, we are told to report on Monday morning as usual, at which time we'll be told what to do (whether to stay or go).Beebs52 wrote:In defense of some of us who work for governmental entities---essential and non-essential may refer to those people critical in particular situations. We have essential personal during a hurricane, like your firefighters and such, or the emergency operations center. And, sometimes, even office workers are considered essential depending on what has to be done/disseminated/contained and like that. So, it's not a "job description" as such. It's what's happening at the time.
We each came up with a list of projects to work on...oddly, "practice chipping/putting" wasn't on her list.
That is TBD from what I understand--but the likelihood is that if we don't work--we don't get paid for what we didn't do.wintergreen48 wrote:There was a great Dilbert about ten years ago where the setup involved the Pointy Haired Boss announcing something like "Due to weather conditions, all 'non-essential employees' may leave work early." In final panel, he is looking at the parking lot through binoculars, thinking to himself "Easiest round of layoffs we ever had."
At my company some Important People objected to being called 'non-essential,' so we have a category of people who are 'Code Red' associates (we are not 'employees,' we are 'associates'), and whenever we have a 'Code Red' situation (which typically involves adverse weather conditions) only 'Code Red' associates are expected to go to work.
Buff, if you guys actually do find yourselves forced to practice putting or whatever for a few days, do you get paid afterward (when the budget or special appropriation or whatever goes into effect) for those days away from the job, or is it a complete unpaid FU for the workers?
America would be a better place if its leaders would do more long-term thinking.vettech wrote:We were informed this morning that the terms are now "excepted" and "non-excepted" (I always thought those had different meanings in terms of government employment, but whatever). We'll find out tomorrow who is who. That's right, this has been on the horizon for however long and we still don't have a plan. Typical.
For us, it may depend upon the state in which one lives - different states have different requirements for drawing unemployment. Our personnel office is supposed to be preparing something to explain this.wintergreen48 wrote:Buff, if you guys actually do find yourselves forced to practice putting or whatever for a few days, do you get paid afterward (when the budget or special appropriation or whatever goes into effect) for those days away from the job, or is it a complete unpaid FU for the workers?
That's what happens in the non-union private sector. If the employer can't afford to pay you for working they certainly can't afford to pay you for not working. If if what you aren't doing is essential.Buffacuse wrote:That is TBD from what I understand--but the likelihood is that if we don't work--we don't get paid for what we didn't do.
Mrs. Spiff has it that way, but sideways.andrewjackson wrote:A government shutdown does mean that our annual meeting in New Orleans next week would be canceled. So I'm in the odd position that if there is a shutdown I report to work as normal on Monday. If there is no shutdown I get Monday off to fly to New Orleans.
Can't be done for Congresscritters and the President. At least, not without amending the Constitution (again). --Bobgsabc wrote:- when they put themselves first on the list of those government employees who won't get paid during a shutdown.
According to OPM, if you're furloughed you can't take leave.earendel wrote:We just received word on how things will be handled here. Assuming that the impasse isn't overcome, everyone is supposed to report on Monday morning. We will be told at that time whether we are considered "essential" personnel, or whether our positions are still funded (through military appropriations). Those who aren't covered by either of those categories will be on "furlough" status. At that time they may choose to take annual leave, but if their leave is longer than the furlough, they can't come back early (the Corps' annual leave budget is "prepaid"). If the furlough is longer than the requested leave, then they may request an extension in writing (no phone calls, but e-mail is acceptable). If, after the kerfuffle is over, back pay is authorized, those on leave status can't get their leave back.
Questions regarding leave:
Q: May an employee not excepted from the furlough take previously approved paid leave (e.g., annual, sick, court, military leave, or leave for bone marrow or organ donation) during a shutdown furlough?
A. No. All paid leave during a shutdown furlough period must be canceled because the requirement to furlough supersedes leave rights. The Antideficiency Act (31 U.S.C. 1341 et seq.) does not allow authorization of any expenditure or obligation before an appropriation is made, unless authorized by law. Paid leave creates a debt to the Government that is not authorized by the Act. Therefore, agencies are instructed that during a shutdown furlough, all paid leave must be canceled.
Q: May an excepted employee take previously approved paid leave or be granted new requests for paid leave during a shutdown furlough?
A. No. When an excepted employee is not working or not performing excepted activities in compliance with the Antideficiency Act, he or she cannot be in a paid leave status. Excepted employees must be either performing excepted activities or furloughed during any absence from work. The furlough must be documented by a furlough notice. If an excepted employee refuses to report for work after being ordered to do so, he or she will be considered in an absence without leave (AWOL) and will be subject to any consequences that may follow from being AWOL.
I think ear is saying that Congress has already passed an appropriation that funds leaves in his area of government. --Bobvettech wrote:According to OPM, if you're furloughed you can't take leave.earendel wrote:We just received word on how things will be handled here. Assuming that the impasse isn't overcome, everyone is supposed to report on Monday morning. We will be told at that time whether we are considered "essential" personnel, or whether our positions are still funded (through military appropriations). Those who aren't covered by either of those categories will be on "furlough" status. At that time they may choose to take annual leave, but if their leave is longer than the furlough, they can't come back early (the Corps' annual leave budget is "prepaid"). If the furlough is longer than the requested leave, then they may request an extension in writing (no phone calls, but e-mail is acceptable). If, after the kerfuffle is over, back pay is authorized, those on leave status can't get their leave back.
http://www.opm.gov/furlough2011/
Questions regarding leave:
Q: May an employee not excepted from the furlough take previously approved paid leave (e.g., annual, sick, court, military leave, or leave for bone marrow or organ donation) during a shutdown furlough?
A. No. All paid leave during a shutdown furlough period must be canceled because the requirement to furlough supersedes leave rights. The Antideficiency Act (31 U.S.C. 1341 et seq.) does not allow authorization of any expenditure or obligation before an appropriation is made, unless authorized by law.
Oh, I interpreted it as saying that those who were neither essential NOR under the appropriation would be taking leave.Bob78164 wrote:I think ear is saying that Congress has already passed an appropriation that funds leaves in his area of government. --Bobvettech wrote:According to OPM, if you're furloughed you can't take leave.earendel wrote:We just received word on how things will be handled here. Assuming that the impasse isn't overcome, everyone is supposed to report on Monday morning. We will be told at that time whether we are considered "essential" personnel, or whether our positions are still funded (through military appropriations). Those who aren't covered by either of those categories will be on "furlough" status. At that time they may choose to take annual leave, but if their leave is longer than the furlough, they can't come back early (the Corps' annual leave budget is "prepaid"). If the furlough is longer than the requested leave, then they may request an extension in writing (no phone calls, but e-mail is acceptable). If, after the kerfuffle is over, back pay is authorized, those on leave status can't get their leave back.
http://www.opm.gov/furlough2011/
Questions regarding leave:
Q: May an employee not excepted from the furlough take previously approved paid leave (e.g., annual, sick, court, military leave, or leave for bone marrow or organ donation) during a shutdown furlough?
A. No. All paid leave during a shutdown furlough period must be canceled because the requirement to furlough supersedes leave rights. The Antideficiency Act (31 U.S.C. 1341 et seq.) does not allow authorization of any expenditure or obligation before an appropriation is made, unless authorized by law.
I could do a "Wintergreen" and post a super long explanation about how the COE is one of the few agencies that pre-funds leave accounts, or I can simply confirm that I participated in a conference call where our Chief Counsel did provide a legal opinion like Earendel stated.vettech wrote:Oh, I interpreted it as saying that those who were neither essential NOR under the appropriation would be taking leave.Bob78164 wrote:I think ear is saying that Congress has already passed an appropriation that funds leaves in his area of government. --Bobvettech wrote:
According to OPM, if you're furloughed you can't take leave.
http://www.opm.gov/furlough2011/
If he posted such, I would read it. It would be fun to read.Appa23 wrote:
I could do a "Wintergreen" and post a super long explanation