Mrs. Buff and I are Non-Essential--As the Shutdown Looms

[Buffacuse]

We each came up with a list of projects to work on...oddly, "practice chipping/putting" wasn't on her list.

[littlebeast13]

I love that there are "essential" and "non-essential" government employees......

Keep working on that solution to the budget crisis, folks......

lb13

[Beebs52]

In defense of some of us who work for governmental entities---essential and non-essential may refer to those people critical in particular situations. We have essential personal during a hurricane, like your firefighters and such, or the emergency operations center. And, sometimes, even office workers are considered essential depending on what has to be done/disseminated/contained and like that. So, it's not a "job description" as such. It's what's happening at the time.

[earendel]

In defense of some of us who work for governmental entities---essential and non-essential may refer to those people critical in particular situations. We have essential personal during a hurricane, like your firefighters and such, or the emergency operations center. And, sometimes, even office workers are considered essential depending on what has to be done/disseminated/contained and like that. So, it's not a "job description" as such. It's what's happening at the time.

And in the case of the Corps of Engineers some jobs are military-funded and some are civil-funded; the former may get to keep working since the "uniformed services" will continue to get paid. Some of the civil-funded employees are being paid from money appropriated in previous years and they, too, get to keep working. The problem is that no one around here knows who falls into which category. So if the government shuts down at midnight tomorrow night, we are told to report on Monday morning as usual, at which time we'll be told what to do (whether to stay or go).

[tlynn78]

We each came up with a list of projects to work on...oddly, "practice chipping/putting" wasn't on her list.

What's the matter with that woman? Sheesh - she needs to get her priorities in order.

t.

[Beebs52]

I meant essential "personnel," not "personal" although essential personal might be a good non sequitur to use later.

[wintergreen48]

There was a great Dilbert about ten years ago where the setup involved the Pointy Haired Boss announcing something like "Due to weather conditions, all 'non-essential employees' may leave work early." In final panel, he is looking at the parking lot through binoculars, thinking to himself "Easiest round of layoffs we ever had."

At my company some Important People objected to being called 'non-essential,' so we have a category of people who are 'Code Red' associates (we are not 'employees,' we are 'associates'), and whenever we have a 'Code Red' situation (which typically involves adverse weather conditions) only 'Code Red' associates are expected to go to work.

Buff, if you guys actually do find yourselves forced to practice putting or whatever for a few days, do you get paid afterward (when the budget or special appropriation or whatever goes into effect) for those days away from the job, or is it a complete unpaid FU for the workers?

[vettech]

We were informed this morning that the terms are now "excepted" and "non-excepted" (I always thought those had different meanings in terms of government employment, but whatever). We'll find out tomorrow who is who. That's right, this has been on the horizon for however long and we still don't have a plan. Typical.

[Buffacuse]

There was a great Dilbert about ten years ago where the setup involved the Pointy Haired Boss announcing something like "Due to weather conditions, all 'non-essential employees' may leave work early." In final panel, he is looking at the parking lot through binoculars, thinking to himself "Easiest round of layoffs we ever had."

At my company some Important People objected to being called 'non-essential,' so we have a category of people who are 'Code Red' associates (we are not 'employees,' we are 'associates'), and whenever we have a 'Code Red' situation (which typically involves adverse weather conditions) only 'Code Red' associates are expected to go to work.

Buff, if you guys actually do find yourselves forced to practice putting or whatever for a few days, do you get paid afterward (when the budget or special appropriation or whatever goes into effect) for those days away from the job, or is it a complete unpaid FU for the workers?

That is TBD from what I understand--but the likelihood is that if we don't work--we don't get paid for what we didn't do.

[SportsFan68]

My EPA friend is considered essential at this time because she has a trial coming up. (Digression: I've heard rumors that there are rumblings to dissolve the EPA, and knowing what my friend and her colleagues do, I think it would be a HUGE mistake.)

To answer what I think Wintergreen asked, the last time there were "furloughs," my friend was considered essential that time too, and she worked and was paid as usual. The folks who were furloughed and spent the time at the golf course, or catching up around the house, or taking a quick vacation, were paid for those days a couple months later as soon as all the paperwork could be processed, but it didn't count against their vacation.

[SportsFan68]

I just read Buffacuse's post -- since it's still to be determined, maybe this time they won't get paid for the days, assuming it happens.

[SportsFan68]

We were informed this morning that the terms are now "excepted" and "non-excepted" (I always thought those had different meanings in terms of government employment, but whatever). We'll find out tomorrow who is who. That's right, this has been on the horizon for however long and we still don't have a plan. Typical.

America would be a better place if its leaders would do more long-term thinking.

[earendel]

Buff, if you guys actually do find yourselves forced to practice putting or whatever for a few days, do you get paid afterward (when the budget or special appropriation or whatever goes into effect) for those days away from the job, or is it a complete unpaid FU for the workers?

For us, it may depend upon the state in which one lives - different states have different requirements for drawing unemployment. Our personnel office is supposed to be preparing something to explain this.

Last time there was a government shutdown the ultimate resolution provided for back pay for all government employees; some who collected unemployment had to repay it. There's no way to know whether that will be the case this time. To compound the issue, the Corps of Engineers "pre-funds" annual leave, meaning that if someone wanted to do so, he or she could request annual leave and get paid until the government reopens or the person's leave is exhausted.

[BackInTex]

That is TBD from what I understand--but the likelihood is that if we don't work--we don't get paid for what we didn't do.

That's what happens in the non-union private sector. If the employer can't afford to pay you for working they certainly can't afford to pay you for not working. If if what you aren't doing is essential.

[Ritterskoop]

We've had several furloughs at the paper over the past couple of years (I went to a 4-day week 2 years ago, so I am donating time every week, so I haven't been furloughed).

The way it works here is you file with the N.C. Employment Security Commission during your first week of no pay. Then, if there is a second such week within 12 months, you get unemployment benefits for that second week (roughly half pay, I think).

[earendel]

We just received word on how things will be handled here. Assuming that the impasse isn't overcome, everyone is supposed to report on Monday morning. We will be told at that time whether we are considered "essential" personnel, or whether our positions are still funded (through military appropriations). Those who aren't covered by either of those categories will be on "furlough" status. At that time they may choose to take annual leave, but if their leave is longer than the furlough, they can't come back early (the Corps' annual leave budget is "prepaid"). If the furlough is longer than the requested leave, then they may request an extension in writing (no phone calls, but e-mail is acceptable). If, after the kerfuffle is over, back pay is authorized, those on leave status can't get their leave back.

[andrewjackson]

The Judiciary says they have enough funding for two weeks so we report as normal for the first two weeks of a shutdown. After that there might be furloughs although from what I hear the last government shutdown the Administrative Office of the U.S. Courts declared everyone essential so that no one got furloughed.

A government shutdown does mean that our annual meeting in New Orleans next week would be canceled. So I'm in the odd position that if there is a shutdown I report to work as normal on Monday. If there is no shutdown I get Monday off to fly to New Orleans.

[SpacemanSpiff]

A government shutdown does mean that our annual meeting in New Orleans next week would be canceled. So I'm in the odd position that if there is a shutdown I report to work as normal on Monday. If there is no shutdown I get Monday off to fly to New Orleans.

Mrs. Spiff has it that way, but sideways.

She works as a civilian employee for DeCA (Defense Commissaries), and is in Orlando for a conference. The last day of the conference is tomorrow, and she's supposed to fly back on Saturday.

Her understanding is that if the stalemate stands, she's supposed to abandon the last day of the conference, arrange for new flights, and get home by 11:59pm ET Friday.

I asked how this makes sense (OK, I know, it's the gubment), since the return airfare had certainly been paid already. She said she was told that if they didn't leave on Friday, they wouldn't be authorized to pay the hotel bill on Saturday upon checkout, plus any travel reimbursements/per diem for the Saturday part.

Go figure.

[gsabc]

My Army-employed SIL will not get paid during any shutdown. Considering how long it takes just to get a planned moving reimbursement, I expect the catch-up pay will happen after his enlistment is up. In 2013.

I will believe that both sides are serious about reducing the deficit when:
- the next fiscal year's budget is ready and signed before the current fiscal year is up
- their own salaries/benefits and their staffers are part of the budget cuts
- when they put themselves first on the list of those government employees who won't get paid during a shutdown.

[Bob78164]

- when they put themselves first on the list of those government employees who won't get paid during a shutdown.

Can't be done for Congresscritters and the President. At least, not without amending the Constitution (again). --Bob

[vettech]

We just received word on how things will be handled here. Assuming that the impasse isn't overcome, everyone is supposed to report on Monday morning. We will be told at that time whether we are considered "essential" personnel, or whether our positions are still funded (through military appropriations). Those who aren't covered by either of those categories will be on "furlough" status. At that time they may choose to take annual leave, but if their leave is longer than the furlough, they can't come back early (the Corps' annual leave budget is "prepaid"). If the furlough is longer than the requested leave, then they may request an extension in writing (no phone calls, but e-mail is acceptable). If, after the kerfuffle is over, back pay is authorized, those on leave status can't get their leave back.

According to OPM, if you're furloughed you can't take leave.

http://www.opm.gov/furlough2011/

Questions regarding leave:

Q: May an employee not excepted from the furlough take previously approved paid leave (e.g., annual, sick, court, military leave, or leave for bone marrow or organ donation) during a shutdown furlough?
A. No. All paid leave during a shutdown furlough period must be canceled because the requirement to furlough supersedes leave rights. The Antideficiency Act (31 U.S.C. 1341 et seq.) does not allow authorization of any expenditure or obligation before an appropriation is made, unless authorized by law. Paid leave creates a debt to the Government that is not authorized by the Act. Therefore, agencies are instructed that during a shutdown furlough, all paid leave must be canceled.

Q: May an excepted employee take previously approved paid leave or be granted new requests for paid leave during a shutdown furlough?
A. No. When an excepted employee is not working or not performing excepted activities in compliance with the Antideficiency Act, he or she cannot be in a paid leave status. Excepted employees must be either performing excepted activities or furloughed during any absence from work. The furlough must be documented by a furlough notice. If an excepted employee refuses to report for work after being ordered to do so, he or she will be considered in an absence without leave (AWOL) and will be subject to any consequences that may follow from being AWOL.

[Bob78164]

We just received word on how things will be handled here. Assuming that the impasse isn't overcome, everyone is supposed to report on Monday morning. We will be told at that time whether we are considered "essential" personnel, or whether our positions are still funded (through military appropriations). Those who aren't covered by either of those categories will be on "furlough" status. At that time they may choose to take annual leave, but if their leave is longer than the furlough, they can't come back early (the Corps' annual leave budget is "prepaid"). If the furlough is longer than the requested leave, then they may request an extension in writing (no phone calls, but e-mail is acceptable). If, after the kerfuffle is over, back pay is authorized, those on leave status can't get their leave back.

According to OPM, if you're furloughed you can't take leave.

http://www.opm.gov/furlough2011/

Questions regarding leave:

Q: May an employee not excepted from the furlough take previously approved paid leave (e.g., annual, sick, court, military leave, or leave for bone marrow or organ donation) during a shutdown furlough?
A. No. All paid leave during a shutdown furlough period must be canceled because the requirement to furlough supersedes leave rights. The Antideficiency Act (31 U.S.C. 1341 et seq.) does not allow authorization of any expenditure or obligation before an appropriation is made, unless authorized by law.

I think ear is saying that Congress has already passed an appropriation that funds leaves in his area of government. --Bob

[vettech]

We just received word on how things will be handled here. Assuming that the impasse isn't overcome, everyone is supposed to report on Monday morning. We will be told at that time whether we are considered "essential" personnel, or whether our positions are still funded (through military appropriations). Those who aren't covered by either of those categories will be on "furlough" status. At that time they may choose to take annual leave, but if their leave is longer than the furlough, they can't come back early (the Corps' annual leave budget is "prepaid"). If the furlough is longer than the requested leave, then they may request an extension in writing (no phone calls, but e-mail is acceptable). If, after the kerfuffle is over, back pay is authorized, those on leave status can't get their leave back.

According to OPM, if you're furloughed you can't take leave.

http://www.opm.gov/furlough2011/

Questions regarding leave:

Q: May an employee not excepted from the furlough take previously approved paid leave (e.g., annual, sick, court, military leave, or leave for bone marrow or organ donation) during a shutdown furlough?
A. No. All paid leave during a shutdown furlough period must be canceled because the requirement to furlough supersedes leave rights. The Antideficiency Act (31 U.S.C. 1341 et seq.) does not allow authorization of any expenditure or obligation before an appropriation is made, unless authorized by law.

I think ear is saying that Congress has already passed an appropriation that funds leaves in his area of government. --Bob

Oh, I interpreted it as saying that those who were neither essential NOR under the appropriation would be taking leave.

[Appa23]

According to OPM, if you're furloughed you can't take leave.

http://www.opm.gov/furlough2011/

I think ear is saying that Congress has already passed an appropriation that funds leaves in his area of government. --Bob

Oh, I interpreted it as saying that those who were neither essential NOR under the appropriation would be taking leave.

I could do a "Wintergreen" and post a super long explanation about how the COE is one of the few agencies that pre-funds leave accounts, or I can simply confirm that I participated in a conference call where our Chief Counsel did provide a legal opinion like Earendel stated.

There is still much up in the air, including whether the COE will "share the pain" and actually furlough employees even if their jobs actually are paid via prior year appropriations, multi-year appropriations, or other pots of money. However, I apparently may be opening a solo practice covering a quarter of the United States.

[Ritterskoop]

I could do a "Wintergreen" and post a super long explanation

If he posted such, I would read it. It would be fun to read.