Communists are so cute when they are small

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Re: Communists are so cute when they are small

#26 Post by jarnon » Thu Jan 16, 2020 10:10 am

Spock wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 10:00 am
Considering the work ethic of the average Bernie Bro-this made me laff and laff.

I cracked open Gulag Archipelago V2 and found this pretty early.

"the bases of the work structure of the Soviet Republic as defined in the Constitution of July 10, 1918: He who does not work does not eat."
668,000 will lose food stamp benefits under new work rules

Sonny Perdue must have read the book too. But Bernie's against this rule change.

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Re: Communists are so cute when they are small

#27 Post by flockofseagulls104 » Thu Jan 16, 2020 10:17 am

Beebs52 wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 7:21 pm
Bob78164 wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 7:14 pm
Beebs52 wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 6:47 pm


No.It's why people need to vote against you and yours. Not war gulag blahblahblah. You need to simmah down.
Not what he wrote. And I believe he truly meant what he wrote. Which is why he's just fine with the various voter-suppression tactics being deployed by Republicans all over the country, some aimed with "almost surgical precision" at voters of color. --Bob
Okie dokie.
I guess I need to add to my signature since bob has deduced, with his razor sharp logic, that I don't want black people to vote.
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Re: Communists are so cute when they are small

#28 Post by silverscreenselect » Thu Jan 16, 2020 10:52 am

flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 10:17 am
I guess I need to add to my signature since bob has deduced, with his razor sharp logic, that I don't want black people to vote.
You're bigger than that, Flock. You don't want any Democrats to vote.
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Re: Communists are so cute when they are small

#29 Post by Spock » Thu Jan 16, 2020 12:00 pm

This op-ed made me laugh too.

Michael Rectenwald, the author, is an ex-marxist college prof who went over to my side-he knows this crap inside and out.

>>>"https://www.rt.com/op-ed/478352-cities- ... -campaign/<<<

This part made me chuckle.

>>>>But keeping his more radical acolytes on-message – yes to universal healthcare, no to purges of the bourgeoisie – will continue to be a key challenge if Sanders wants to win, rather than just send a message to the establishment.<<<<

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Re: Communists are so cute when they are small

#30 Post by silverscreenselect » Thu Jan 16, 2020 12:48 pm

Spock wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 12:00 pm
This op-ed made me laugh too.
Here's the biggest takeaway from the article:
Kyle Jurek, 38, was arrested last week in Iowa & charged w/drunk driving, possessing drug paraphernalia & more. Jurek is a field organizer for Sanders campaign.
So you and all these right wing sites are basing your theories of Bernie Bros and anarchic violence on one guy with a drinking and/or drug problem who was probably under the influence when he shot off his mouth for the hidden camera.

I'm sure that any left-wingers with the stomach for it could get lots more of that kind of talk in the parking lot outside any Trump rally. Did you see any of this violence in 2016 from the Bernie Bros?

They could well hurt the Democrats but not by staging riots but by staying home and sulking as some of them did four years ago.
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Re: Communists are so cute when they are small

#31 Post by Spock » Thu Jan 16, 2020 1:09 pm

Well, if nothing else, the Sanders campaign is good at "1984" style censorship.

They sent their previous praise of Jurek down the Memory Hole.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news ... tas-expose

>>>"O'Keefe published a Sept. 21 tweet of Adams celebrating with Jurek along with accompanying text that read: "This room is about to hit 20,000 phone calls!! Led by our top-tier organizers @hiranodanielle and Kyle Jurek!""<<<<

As noted at the bottom of the linked story, apparently, this Adams tweet praising Jurek has been sent to the Memory Hole.

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Re: Communists are so cute when they are small

#32 Post by Spock » Thu Jan 16, 2020 1:30 pm

Oh, and please note, as far as threats of violence and so forth from Trump voters, that you had a prominent leftist here make a Declaration of War in this very thread.

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Re: Communists are so cute when they are small

#33 Post by silverscreenselect » Thu Jan 16, 2020 2:19 pm

Spock wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 1:09 pm
Well, if nothing else, the Sanders campaign is good at "1984" style censorship.

They sent their previous praise of Jurek down the Memory Hole.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news ... tas-expose

>>>"O'Keefe published a Sept. 21 tweet of Adams celebrating with Jurek along with accompanying text that read: "This room is about to hit 20,000 phone calls!! Led by our top-tier organizers @hiranodanielle and Kyle Jurek!""<<<<

As noted at the bottom of the linked story, apparently, this Adams tweet praising Jurek has been sent to the Memory Hole.
And again I fail to see the point. A Sanders official sends out a tweet (which sounds like one of a whole lot of similar praising tweets) congratulating two people for hard work, one of whom is Jurek. Calling Jurak a "top-tier organizer" is the sort of meaningless but nice sounding praise that goes out in these sorts of tweets all the time.

I don't think anyone really wants to get into all the inopportune photo ops and comments that Donald Trump has been involved in these last few years, including his good buddy Lev Parnas.
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Re: Communists are so cute when they are small

#34 Post by Spock » Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:01 pm

Interesting questions about Jurek's arrest raised in the latest video to drop. This part is about 2 minutes long.

https://twitter.com/JamesOKeefeIII/stat ... 1642000384

Apparently, fellow campaign staffers bailed him out.

Did they use campaign funds?

Was this a campaign violation?

O'Keefe's Tweet

>>>"BREAKING: @BernieSanders Field Organizer; Sanders Iowa Regional Field Director Luke bailed him out of jail after recent drug arrest.

"He's like 'don't say another word', we(Sanders campaign?) already processed your bail...sit tight"

Were campaign funds used?"<<<<

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Re: Communists are so cute when they are small

#35 Post by Spock » Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:19 pm

SSS>>>"And again I fail to see the point. A Sanders official sends out a tweet (which sounds like one of a whole lot of similar praising tweets) congratulating two people for hard work, one of whom is Jurek. Calling Jurak a "top-tier organizer" is the sort of meaningless but nice sounding praise that goes out in these sorts of tweets all the time.

I don't think anyone really wants to get into all the inopportune photo ops and comments that Donald Trump has been involved in these last few years, including his good buddy Lev Parnas.<<<<

As you are an attorney, I assume that you got the point, but chose to obfuscate it. The point had nothing to with how boilerplate, or whatever, the Sanders official's tweet was-it was that they used Soviet-style 1984'ish censorship techniques to send the tweet to the Memory Hole.

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Re: Communists are so cute when they are small

#36 Post by silverscreenselect » Thu Jan 16, 2020 4:11 pm

Spock wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:19 pm
-it was that they used Soviet-style 1984'ish censorship techniques to send the tweet to the Memory Hole.
And they have that in common with about 99% of the people who have ever tweeted.
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Re: Communists are so cute when they are small

#37 Post by Bob Juch » Thu Jan 16, 2020 6:16 pm

Sanders is not a Democrat.
I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be.
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Si fractum non sit, noli id reficere.

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Re: Communists are so cute when they are small

#38 Post by Spock » Thu Jan 16, 2020 6:44 pm

SSS>>>"So you and all these right wing sites are basing your theories of Bernie Bros and anarchic violence on one guy with a drinking and/or drug problem who was probably under the influence when he shot off his mouth for the hidden camera."<<<

So, you are hanging your hat on the idea that Jurek is a one-of druggie loser? Who apparently is still employed by the Sanders campaign.

As you are an attorney, has it ever crossed your mind that O'Keefe might have anticipated such a response and has other tapes of Bernie staffers saying similar things?

I have no idea of what may or may not be coming, but if I was on your side I would be pretty careful about hanging my hat (at this point) on the idea that Jurek is one-of.

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Re: Communists are so cute when they are small

#39 Post by Bob78164 » Thu Jan 16, 2020 7:48 pm

Spock wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 6:44 pm
As you are an attorney, has it ever crossed your mind that O'Keefe might have anticipated such a response and has other tapes of Bernie staffers saying similar things?
I'd be willing to bet he has such tapes. Whether the staffers actually said such things or not.

That's the problem with relying on someone who's been caught fabricating evidence. You can't ever again trust anything they put forward. --Bob
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." Thomas Jefferson

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Re: Communists are so cute when they are small

#40 Post by flockofseagulls104 » Fri Jan 17, 2020 7:07 am

Bob78164 wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 7:48 pm
Spock wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 6:44 pm
As you are an attorney, has it ever crossed your mind that O'Keefe might have anticipated such a response and has other tapes of Bernie staffers saying similar things?
I'd be willing to bet he has such tapes. Whether the staffers actually said such things or not.

That's the problem with relying on someone who's been caught fabricating evidence. You can't ever again trust anything they put forward. --Bob
You seem to be very selective in your application of that standard.
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Re: Communists are so cute when they are small

#41 Post by Spock » Fri Jan 17, 2020 9:09 am

Bob>>>"I'd be willing to bet he has such tapes. Whether the staffers actually said such things or not.

That's the problem with relying on someone who's been caught fabricating evidence. You can't ever again trust anything they put forward. --Bob"<<<<

Remember, there is a 3rd actor in this. There are

1)Project Veritas

2)Kyle Jurek

3) The Whistleblower (Hey, we all love whistleblowers, right)

Project Veritas did not find just find Jurek at random and get him high and talking.

Apparently, he talks like this a lot, enough to concern a whistleblower, anyway.
.
The whistleblower saw him pure and un-edited (if you will)

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Re: Communists are so cute when they are small

#42 Post by silverscreenselect » Fri Jan 17, 2020 9:40 am

Spock wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 9:09 am

3) The Whistleblower (Hey, we all love whistleblowers, right)

Project Veritas did not find just find Jurek at random and get him high and talking.
Or, more likely, Project Veritas had some of its people sign up to do field work for Bernie Sanders and hang around with real Sanders volunteers in the hopes that someone would eventually shoot his mouth off (as Jurek did).
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Re: Communists are so cute when they are small

#43 Post by Spock » Fri Jan 17, 2020 10:05 am

Remember this part everybody.

The thing that is so frickin' funny about this is that if anybody, remotely associated with the right, said "Liberals get the Fu--ing wall first" as Jurek said, SSS and the Bobs would be wetting themselves with glee and does anyone doubt that it would be national story for weeks. Let alone if somebody praised the Nazi camps.

I guess all you have to praise the Gulags and you are fine with SSS and the Bob#'s.

I am going to get ripped for this thought exercise, but screw it and I will start with the obligatory statement that I am in now way diminishing the Holocaust or evils of Nazi Germany, although the left routinely ignores the evils of Soviet Russia which killed far more, so any pearl clutching on your part will not be taken seriously..

Just to start with_ The Holodomor (the forced starvation of Ukrainians) in the 1930's killed more Ukrainians than the Holocaust killed Jews-so remember we are talking massive evil here.

When I think about the 2 systems, if you went into the Nazi camps as a Jew, you at least had that to grab onto. You were a Jew among Jews and I think that comes through in Holocaust literature. Yes, other groups were there, but people obviously focus on the Jews.

In comparison, the most evil thing about the Gulag as I read about it is that you had nothing to grab onto. You went in as an individual and it stayed that way. Other prisoners were your worst enemy.

It breaks my heart as I read about it, from the moment of their arrest, the victims of the Gulag had absolutely nothing to grab onto-everything was taken away from them.

I can see SSS or Bob, making an obligatory statement like, of course, the Gulags were bad. Actually, I just realized that they have not done so yet, which is interesting in and of itself.

I think it comes down to this, If I had to choose between going in as a random Jew to the Nazi camps or as a random prisoner to the Gulag at its height. I think that would be the easiest choice possible. I would pick Jew in a Nazi camp in a second.

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Re: Communists are so cute when they are small

#44 Post by flockofseagulls104 » Fri Jan 17, 2020 10:26 am

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denial_of_the_Holodomor
Walter Duranty
According to Patrick Wright,[33] Robert C. Tucker,[34] Eugene Lyons,[35] Mona Charen[36] and Thomas Woods[37] one of the first Western Holodomor deniers was Walter Duranty, the winner of the 1932 Pulitzer prize in journalism in the category of correspondence, for his dispatches on Soviet Union and the working out of the Five Year Plan.[38] While the famine was raging, he wrote in the pages of The New York Times that "any report of a famine in Russia is today an exaggeration or malignant propaganda", and that "there is no actual starvation or deaths from starvation, but there is widespread mortality from diseases due to malnutrition."[35]

Duranty was well aware of the famine. He said in private to Eugene Lyons and reported to the British Embassy that the population of Ukraine and Lower Volga had "decreased" by six to seven million.[39] However, in his reports, Duranty downplayed the impact of food shortages in Ukraine. As Duranty wrote in a dispatch from Moscow in March 1933, "Conditions are bad, but there is no famine... But—to put it brutally—you can't make an omelet without breaking eggs."[40]

Duranty also wrote denunciations of those who wrote about the famine, accusing them of being reactionaries and anti-Bolshevik propagandists. In August 1933, Cardinal Theodor Innitzer of Vienna called for relief efforts, stating that the Ukrainian famine was claiming lives "likely... numbered... by the millions" and driving those still alive to infanticide and cannibalism. The New York Times, August 20, 1933, reported Innitzer's charge and published an official Soviet denial: "in the Soviet Union we have neither cannibals nor cardinals". The next day, the Times added Duranty's own denial.

British journalist Malcolm Muggeridge (who went hopefully to live in the New Civilization in 1932, but soon became disillusioned) said of Duranty that he "always enjoyed his company; there was something vigorous, vivacious, preposterous, about his unscrupulousness which made his persistent lying somehow absorbing."[41] Muggeridge characterised Duranty as "the greatest liar of any journalist I have met in 50 years of journalism."[42] Others have characterized Duranty as "the number one Useful Idiot for Lenin first, and later for Stalin."[43]

An international campaign for the retraction of Duranty's Pulitzer Prize was launched in 2003 by the Ukrainian Canadian Civil Liberties Association and its supporters. The newspaper, however, declined to relinquish it, arguing that Duranty received the prize for a series of reports about the Soviet Union, eleven of which were published in June 1931. In 1990, the Times admitted that his was "some of the worst reporting to appear in this newspaper."[44]

Some historians consider Duranty's reports from Moscow to be crucial in the decision taken by President Franklin D. Roosevelt to grant the Soviet Union diplomatic recognition in 1933.[45] Bolshevik Karl Radek said that was indeed the case.[4]/quote]
That's the problem with relying on someone who's been caught fabricating evidence. You can't ever again trust anything they put forward. --Bob
Your friendly neighborhood racist. On the waiting list to be a nazi. Designated an honorary 'snowflake'. Trolled by the very best, as well as by BJ. Always typical, unlike others.., Fulminator, Hopelessly in the tank for trump... inappropriate... Flocking himself... Probably a tucking sexist, too... All thought comes from the right wing noise machine(TM)... A clear and present threat to The Future Of Our Democracy.. Doesn't understand anything... Made the trump apologist and enabler playoffs... Heathen bastard

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Re: Communists are so cute when they are small

#45 Post by Effin' Birds » Fri Jan 17, 2020 11:05 am

Image

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Re: Communists are so cute when they are small

#46 Post by Spock » Fri Jan 17, 2020 11:19 am

I made one poor word choice in my previous post. I said "You went into the Gulags as an individual and it stayed that way."

The use of the word "Individual" diminishes the evils of the Gulag as it implies a measure of the self that wasn't there.

I should have said "You went into the Gulag ALONE and it stayed that way."

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Re: Communists are so cute when they are small

#47 Post by silverscreenselect » Fri Jan 17, 2020 11:48 am

Spock wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 10:05 am
I can see SSS or Bob, making an obligatory statement like, of course, the Gulags were bad. Actually, I just realized that they have not done so yet, which is interesting in and of itself.
I didn't think there was a need to state the obvious that the Gulags were bad or that there's a need to debate which was worse, the Gulags or the Nazi death camps. No one has mentioned the Gulags except you and Kyle Jurek, and both of you seem to have some sort of fascination with them.

Somehow, you and a large portion of the right wing media, perhaps in an effort to distract attention from the very real and very high level disclosures about the actions of Trump, Giuliani, and associates in connection with the Ukraine, have decided to conflate the drunken ramblings of one admittedly wacky low-level Sanders volunteer organizer in Iowa with a condemnation of his entire campaign or even the Democratic party.

Keep running with this, because it's the best ammunition your side has right now.
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Re: Communists are so cute when they are small

#48 Post by jarnon » Fri Jan 17, 2020 1:29 pm

Spock wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 10:05 am
Remember this part everybody.

The thing that is so frickin' funny about this is that if anybody, remotely associated with the right, said "Liberals get the Fu--ing wall first" as Jurek said, SSS and the Bobs would be wetting themselves with glee and does anyone doubt that it would be national story for weeks. Let alone if somebody praised the Nazi camps.

I guess all you have to praise the Gulags and you are fine with SSS and the Bob#'s.

I am going to get ripped for this thought exercise, but screw it and I will start with the obligatory statement that I am in now way diminishing the Holocaust or evils of Nazi Germany, although the left routinely ignores the evils of Soviet Russia which killed far more, so any pearl clutching on your part will not be taken seriously..

Just to start with_ The Holodomor (the forced starvation of Ukrainians) in the 1930's killed more Ukrainians than the Holocaust killed Jews-so remember we are talking massive evil here.

When I think about the 2 systems, if you went into the Nazi camps as a Jew, you at least had that to grab onto. You were a Jew among Jews and I think that comes through in Holocaust literature. Yes, other groups were there, but people obviously focus on the Jews.

In comparison, the most evil thing about the Gulag as I read about it is that you had nothing to grab onto. You went in as an individual and it stayed that way. Other prisoners were your worst enemy.

It breaks my heart as I read about it, from the moment of their arrest, the victims of the Gulag had absolutely nothing to grab onto-everything was taken away from them.

I can see SSS or Bob, making an obligatory statement like, of course, the Gulags were bad. Actually, I just realized that they have not done so yet, which is interesting in and of itself.

I think it comes down to this, If I had to choose between going in as a random Jew to the Nazi camps or as a random prisoner to the Gulag at its height. I think that would be the easiest choice possible. I would pick Jew in a Nazi camp in a second.
You'll really like this book: Nesim All Around Me: The Life of David Mitzner. Mitzner, a distant relative of mine, survived both the Nazis and Soviets, so you'll get a unique perspective. And his life after the war is surprising too. My local library got me the book through inter-library loan, but it took months.

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Re: Communists are so cute when they are small

#49 Post by flockofseagulls104 » Fri Jan 17, 2020 3:26 pm

silverscreenselect wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 11:48 am
Spock wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 10:05 am
I can see SSS or Bob, making an obligatory statement like, of course, the Gulags were bad. Actually, I just realized that they have not done so yet, which is interesting in and of itself.
I didn't think there was a need to state the obvious that the Gulags were bad or that there's a need to debate which was worse, the Gulags or the Nazi death camps. No one has mentioned the Gulags except you and Kyle Jurek, and both of you seem to have some sort of fascination with them.

Somehow, you and a large portion of the right wing media, perhaps in an effort to distract attention from the very real and very high level disclosures about the actions of Trump, Giuliani, and associates in connection with the Ukraine, have decided to conflate the drunken ramblings of one admittedly wacky low-level Sanders volunteer organizer in Iowa with a condemnation of his entire campaign or even the Democratic party.

Keep running with this, because it's the best ammunition your side has right now.
Your mind is in such a small box. I hope someday it will escape that box, but it is a faint hope. I suspect it is comfortable there.
Your friendly neighborhood racist. On the waiting list to be a nazi. Designated an honorary 'snowflake'. Trolled by the very best, as well as by BJ. Always typical, unlike others.., Fulminator, Hopelessly in the tank for trump... inappropriate... Flocking himself... Probably a tucking sexist, too... All thought comes from the right wing noise machine(TM)... A clear and present threat to The Future Of Our Democracy.. Doesn't understand anything... Made the trump apologist and enabler playoffs... Heathen bastard

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Re: Communists are so cute when they are small

#50 Post by Spock » Sat Jan 18, 2020 9:17 am

One interesting difference between the Nazi camps and the Gulags that comes through time and again with the perspective of time in Solzhenitsyn is that:

While we all know by heart the worst of the horrors of the Nazi camps-The gas chambers, Dr. Mengele, the shootings in the woods outside Kiev. We all know this stuff in our bones. Meanwhile, we can never know the worst of the Gulags.

Solzhenitsyn, as in the following, says many times that the worst of the Gulags can never be known because there were no survivors of those parts, or if there were, they weren't talking.

He writes for many pages about one of the first camps known as Solovki and, obviously, it was horrible, but, survivable for some as there was shelter and they weren't completely worked to death. Then he goes on to say.

>>>"The real Solovki was in the logging operations, at the remote work sites. But it is precisely those distant backwoods that are most difficult to learn about nowadays because those people did not survive. It is known that even at that time they did not allow the workers to dry themselves out in the autumn, that in winter they did not provide them with clothes or footgear in the deep snow."<<<

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